Mass Effect 2

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Lemegeton
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Lemegeton » 24 Jan 2012, 13:53

Vigafre wrote:
Lemegeton wrote:
Vigafre wrote:I'm okay with Legion and Thane dying, so I feel no need to retry. If it had been anyone else, I would have.


Thane was dying anyway and Legion was a machine so i say your conscience is clear, lol.

I liked Legion, but yeah, that was pretty much my reasoning.


i liked him too. loved his loyalty mission
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby JackSlack » 24 Jan 2012, 14:40

Mordin is the best thing in the history of anything. I just want to say that.

MORDIN.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby LogicSword » 24 Jan 2012, 14:53

While I love Mordin's... chats... with Shepherd, I do find him rather irritating at times.

On the plus side, he's not Jack.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Vigafre » 24 Jan 2012, 14:58

My criticisms of the ME2 crew:

Miranda - Too...something. I don't have a good/non-offensive term for it. Also, she talked about herself too much.

Jacob - Too black. Made my Shepard seem less black. I'm totally kidding.

Garrus - Why'd they make him awkward? Also, GARRUS, STOP DYING SO MUCH. I THOUGHT YOU WERE OVER THIS.

Jack - Too bitchy.

Mordin - Too anti-paragon. I don't see anything wrong with him, but my Shepard did.

Samara - Too bland, but fit her character, so whatevs.

Thane - Too bland. For reals.

Tali - Awkward, but it fit.

Grunt - I liked Wrex better.

Legion - Dig'em.


Another note: More of a comment on the whole series, but man, does being pure Renegade seem pointless. You get most of the same benefits as being Paragon, but you're also A HUGE JERK, which seems dumb. Renegade shouldn't have been evil, it should have been straight-forward and "doing what is necessary for the mission", not just "I'mma kill you cuz I can."
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Geoff_B » 24 Jan 2012, 15:07

Miranda - Too snobbish? Too full of herself? Too ignorant of her front teeth?
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JackSlack
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby JackSlack » 24 Jan 2012, 15:16

Vigafre wrote:Another note: More of a comment on the whole series, but man, does being pure Renegade seem pointless. You get most of the same benefits as being Paragon, but you're also A HUGE JERK, which seems dumb. Renegade shouldn't have been evil, it should have been straight-forward and "doing what is necessary for the mission", not just "I'mma kill you cuz I can."


Yeah, I think Paragon and Renegade were a bit skewed in ME2. Done right, they should be the sliding scale of idealism vs. cynicism: A Paragon Shepard believes it's no good saving the galaxy if they wreck it in the process, a Renegade Shepard argues it's no damn good trying to fix the universe if the whole thing gets blown apart anyway. That's the crux of it, and it's tricky to get right, I concur.

Also, MORDIN. Dude is a dude.

(OK, OK. Stronger defence: Guy's the most tied into the backstory in the game, leading to him having the strongest loyalty quest as well. He's a neat example of the Renegade impulse not making you a jerk, for the most part. He is renegade as hell, but he's usually quite polite, if overly chatty. And neatly, his loyalty quest also gives the Paragons a bit of a chance to voice their beliefs: By being so firmly renegade, he created a problem waiting to happen by solving the other one. Indeed, one can argue the entire Rachni/Krogan/Turian plotline is an example of why Renegade fails. On the other hand, any decent Renegade will ask, 'So fine, hotshot. How would YOU have solved the rachni invasion?'

Plus: He sings.)
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Duckay » 24 Jan 2012, 15:29

I find it really sad that I'm more or less quoting Freddie Prinze Jr for this, but anyone who's watched me play Mass Effect will attest that I have always felt that sometimes I just want to be the guy who punches someone in the face instead of talking to them about it.

I liked Garrus in the second game because I wasn't big on him in the first game; however, I'm not in the majority on that one, so fair enough.

I also really liked Thane, though I found him a bit... much in the romance.

I didn't particularly like Samara, but then, I really liked Jack. I didn't think she was "too bitchy", at all - she's been through a lot, she's been hardened by it.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Lemegeton » 24 Jan 2012, 15:41

Miranda - I loved Miranda. From the moment the game started i knew my Shepard was going to throw down with her.

Jacob - I found Jacob very bland personally.

Garrus - Garrus was cool.

Jack - bit of a pain

Mordin - I loved his backstory re: the genophage. good character and great voice.

Samara - I got her last before doing the endgame stuff so cant say much about her.

Thane - I liked Thane. his situation regarding his disease was intriguing.

Tali - She was ok

Grunt - was not a fan

Legion - Legion was cool

Zaeed - Dullsville.

Kasumi - I kind of liked her. Yes like Thane the honorable thief is a worn out trope but maybe it was the strong voice acting for her and Thane that made me like them.
Last edited by Lemegeton on 25 Jan 2012, 02:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby JackSlack » 24 Jan 2012, 16:05

Fine, going through them myself.

Miranda: Distinctly eh, on reflection. She had the potential to be a really interesting character, but I don't think they managed to really sell the 'I'm created perfect so none of my achievements are my own and all of my failures are my own fault' angle. Plus, it's PAINFUL how obvious Bioware loved the hell out of her; they basically made it near impossible to kill her. Her loyalty quest is average.

Jacob: Kinda liked him. Sure, there's not a lot to him, but I liked the 'knows way too many ways to kill you for such a line guy' bro dude angle. Dull loyalty quest, though.

Garrus: Batman in outer space. What's not to like? Great loyalty quest.

Jack: Really good stuff. Jack was Miranda done right; much like her, she's the result of tampering with her very life. Unlike Miranda, she's got the scars to show for it. She's also one of the very, very few ties between the huge disconnect in Cerberus from ME1 and Cerberus from ME2; she feels like something the ME1 Cerberus would do. Her loyalty quest is fantastic.

Mordin: Dude is a dude. As above.

Samara: Dullsville with stupid lore expansion that makes no sense to the universe in any real capacity. It's clear that they began with "We want to make an Asari Jedi Knight" and worked backwards, rather than expand out the Asari in a sensible way and create from there. Despite this, she has one of the best loyalty quests in the game.

Thane: Meh. Unlike Samara, he's at least a coherent character, but I never found him very interesting. The dying assassin trying to redeem himself is a very old trope, and there was no real spin on this version of it. His loyalty quest succeeds in spite of how bland the premise of it is.

Tali: I love Tali. She's the second most adorkable character Bioware's ever made. Her loyalty quest had so much potential, a damn shame it never really comes together.

Grunt: Lousy, dull, boring character. Lousy, dull, boring loyalty quest.

Legion: I'm just not a big as fan as most of them, mostly because he requires a massive, difficult to buy retcon of the Geth from ME1. It's not a terrible retcon, but it's still there. His loyalty quest does have the best moral choice in the game.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Duckay » 24 Jan 2012, 16:08

My favourite loyalty quests were easily Samara's, Thane's and Garrus's. Which is odd, because by no means were those my three favourite characters; in fact, I didn't like Samara much at all.

It just goes to show, doesn't it?
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby JackSlack » 24 Jan 2012, 16:20

I hadn't realised until now exactly how much Miranda and Jack are mirrors of each other. Observe:

1. Both were the results of artificial tampering with their entire being. Jack was damned to this by Cerberus; Miranda was liberated by them.
2. Miranda has alienated herself from this tampering, feeling that her accomplishments are non-existent, only the tampering produced those accomplishments. Jack has defined herself by this tampering, declaring they 'created an all-powerful biotic bitch'.
3. Both have a loyalty quest that calls into question their understanding of their liberation piece by piece. As Miranda's goes on, she discovers that the person she most trusted in her escape was not as trustworthy as she thought; as Jack's goes on, she discovers that the testing that was put upon her was not as unique as she had imagined. These both come in small, desperate moments that pile upon each other. (Seriously, the structure is almost identical.)
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Vigafre » 24 Jan 2012, 16:21

I'm simple-minded. My reasoning on those characters was sort of in jest. I really didn't have a problem with any of them. As far as loyalty quests, the only one I really had in interest in was Tali's, cuz I was curious how it'd turn out.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Geoff_B » 25 Jan 2012, 01:40

When I replayed the first game, and I don't know if it's because I knew how things would turn out, I never used Kaidan and/or Ashley after the first mission. I stuck with Wrex/Tali and Garrus.

Now in 2, outside of the loyalty missions, I can see myself staying with Garrus and probably rotating Tali and maybe Grunt or Zaeed. Or Legion when I eventually get him.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Duckay » 25 Jan 2012, 02:27

I found that in the first game, I found a party that I liked (Kaidan and Garrus) and stuck with it for the whole game. In the second game, I found myself rotating my party a lot more depending on what we were doing (and, a little bit, how much I liked them).

The flip side to this is that I found myself becoming weirdly attached to Kaidan even though he's not a particularly strong character, just because I used him all the time.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby PlasmaCow » 25 Jan 2012, 05:55

In ME1 I felt it was very much just a matter of picking whichever two squad mates rounded out your team to have the full spectrum of biotic/tech/soldier represented. In ME2 I found myself doing that less (especially when 1 member is already picked for the loyalty missions) and going more for who's input I thought might be most interesting for the setting of the mission. Although I did use Miranda quite a lot just because her biotics are good for insta-kills in combat. (Note: Slam does not work properly in zero-G such as the Geth base in Legion's loyalty mission)

I like all the characters well enough, with the loyalty missions suitably varied and appropriate for each character, on my next renegade play through though I'm gonna pick Morinth over Samara and find out what she talks about in down-time.

JackSlack, what you say about making it hard to kill Miranda is probably as much Bioware trying to make their own lives easier as if she's a major or important supporting character in ME3 then it's one less brand new character they have to create, voice, etc if you could kill her off.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Geoff_B » 25 Jan 2012, 06:00

Also I read on her article on TV Tropes that because she has a lot of dialogue in the final mission (telling Shepard to take two people with him while the rest hold the line etc) it made it a lot more difficult to work around the event of her death.

Whether or not the above is true I have no idea.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Duckay » 25 Jan 2012, 15:41

I don't know how true it is, Geoff_B, but it definitely makes sense.

And similarly, PlasmaCow, I varied it up a lot more, but I used Mordin a lot because he's funny and I like his abilities. In the beginning, Garrus too, because I was in the habit of taking him places from 1.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Yaxley » 28 Jan 2012, 08:05

Out of curiosity, does anyone think the gender of their Shepard affected their views of the other characters? I wonder if the potential for a romance subplot (or lack thereof) might change perception.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Vigafre » 28 Jan 2012, 08:59

I honestly couldn't say. I stopped talking to the females after they started hitting on me.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Duckay » 28 Jan 2012, 13:50

To an extent. I didn't like Liara much for other reasons, so the fact that I was boning Kaidan probably helped make me so kindly disposed towards him. But then, I think that was more how often I used him in combat (and by extension, how often I heard his random dialogue and stuff).

I don't think I had that experience in ME2.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Geoff_B » 28 Jan 2012, 14:13

What? No love for Conrad Verner? I'm shocked!
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Vigafre » 28 Jan 2012, 17:11

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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Geoff_B » 29 Jan 2012, 05:12

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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Duckay » 30 Jan 2012, 01:49

I could love Conrad Verner. Widely disliked people are somehow endearing.
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Re: Mass Effect 2

Postby Geoff_B » 30 Jan 2012, 04:12

I seem to be getting through the game a lot quicker this time around and the levels don't seem to be as long. Maybe it's because I know what to expect? For example last night I managed to shoot through the Collector Ship, Samara's loyalty mission (aka CSI: Mass Effect), Garrus's and Thane's loyalty missions and the longest parts of all of them were the loading screens in between locations.
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