Dark Souls General

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LambMower
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby LambMower » 16 Jun 2014, 05:17

I guess I should link this http://bit.ly/LRLSouls
that's all the LRR Souls mods I've created so far.

More OT: I like myself some Dark Souls. Currently doing a greatsword/shield run in Dark Souls 2, probably doing a halberd run after that.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby romangoro » 16 Jun 2014, 06:31

After the first few streams, specially Alex's, I was 100% against the game, but now I really want to play it....................but it was never released for my country (weird MS support arrangements, don't ask).

It reminds me a lot of the traditional roguelikes, mostly Dungeon Crawl (the one I've played the most). Probably that's why I don't like the idea of semi-forced PvP, those are slow and 100% singleplayer games.

The only question I have about the game that the streams haven't answered yet is how easy it is to try different builds. Do you need to invest a singnificant amount of hours to have a feeling of each class/build/etc.?
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Volafortis » 16 Jun 2014, 08:47

Typically I just play around with weapons until I like the moveset of one, and stick to it, wiki-ing what the boss-soul upgrade to it is, and planning my game accordingly.

Usually I can tell if I like a weapon or not after fighting only an enemy or three.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Jamfalcon » 16 Jun 2014, 09:21

I started playing a couple months before LRR did, and just beat it for the first time a few weeks back. My first character was a pyromancer tank, using a battleaxe and Havel's ring the entire game. It worked pretty well for me.

Now I'm on my second playthrough as a rogue, backstabbing and parrying away. Just beat Queelag last time I played, and so far it's going pretty smoothly.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby AdmiralMemo » 16 Jun 2014, 10:21

Just want to link to http://daneislazy.ca/darklrr.html as well, since people might be interested in that, too.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Genghis Ares » 16 Jun 2014, 10:53

I started playing Dark Souls 1 a few weeks ago and I don't really like it that much. I've played for about 8 hours in total and I'm about level 17ish, and I don't think I'll keep playing. I don't have a problem with dying a bunch in games, but the way the game makes you you progress and how you have to do everything over again every time you die or decide to head back to a bonfire is annoying. Combat is alright from time to time, but I feel so limited in what I can do. I can use a fireball(pyromancer) of which I only have 8, or 90% of the time I just throw up my shield and hack at someone bit by bit until they die, making a lot of it unsatisfactory as I wanted to be a mage, not the same fighter as everyone else. Overall, to me it's a not a very good game and I don't know how it's as popular as it is. No offense to anyone that does enjoy it, I just don't really see or feel the appeal.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby ch3m1kal » 16 Jun 2014, 11:15

Just curious, if you wanted to play a more classic magic user why did you not pick sorcerer?

The pyromancer is meant to be more of a battlemage archetype, where you hit things in the face with punches and weapons and sometimes fire.

Obviously as you progress you can lean more towards using magic, but pyromancy generally has less spell charges than sorcery and also doesn't scale with your stats. The power of pyromancer spells is only modified by the rank of your pyromancy flame, unlike other focus objects which scale with either Intelligence of Faith.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Darkobra » 16 Jun 2014, 11:32

I got to NG++ on PS3 long ago and then called it quits on that because it's the same thing over and over. Found secrets the second time around I didn't even know existed!

It was fun but I can't see how people can play it as long as they have.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby daneislazy » 16 Jun 2014, 21:38

Thanks for the link AdmiralMemo!

Lots of questions I feel like answering but now that I'm here writing I can't remember most of them. Probably for the best since when I do post on forums I have a habit of making enormous walls of text.

My first experience with playing Dark Souls was watching a friend play a fair bit. Then taking a shot at it myself, and asking loads of questions. That seemed to work well since it stopped me from really getting stuck anywhere.

I've played through the game several times now and have started about a dozen characters(some on my friends ps3 and some on my PC) most of which I've finished the game with. Once you get to know the game well it becomes frighteningly easy to rip through it and really do whatever kind of build or play-style you like. I can quite easily get a character to Ornstein and Smough in about 3 hours, without resorting to Speed-run tactics.

My recommendations for new players is to read up on the game if needed(especially to learn the game mechanics). Getting to experience everything first hand is important though, so don't panic, don't worry about dying, and take your time.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Graham » 17 Jun 2014, 00:48

ch3m1kal wrote:Re-watching Graham's playthrough was a real eye opener for me, since he did really well with some guidance from Alex, until he got to the Capra demon, where everyone is like "OMG Capra demon is the worst" and he panicked and ran repeatedly into it and died, despite the fact that he could have killed it fairly easily with his build.
How?

Honest question. He killed me in 2 hits, broke through my shield, and pinned me in the corners.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby ch3m1kal » 17 Jun 2014, 01:32

Graham wrote:
ch3m1kal wrote:Re-watching Graham's playthrough was a real eye opener for me, since he did really well with some guidance from Alex, until he got to the Capra demon, where everyone is like "OMG Capra demon is the worst" and he panicked and ran repeatedly into it and died, despite the fact that he could have killed it fairly easily with his build.
How?

Honest question. He killed me in 2 hits, broke through my shield, and pinned me in the corners.


EDIT: I had a long post here, but meanwhile I managed to get Bandicam and Dark Souls to play nice together. Turns out Dark Souls didn't like hardware video capture.

So here's a video of how I personally handle the Capra Demon, with a build similar to yours. I didn't go for the Claymore because it uses too much stamina for my liking, but damage would be similar to the longsword I'm using.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7qIImL_DwM

I spam firebombs more than usual here, since I'm just trying to get through it as fast as possible, and for some reason the Capra demon didn't feel like doing the his jump down animation all that often on this run, though you can see him do it a couple of times.

I also messed up pretty bad in the beginning, but fortunately got away with it.

So there, I hope that helps someone beat that stupid Capra demon, because honestly he's not all that bad... unless you're using a DEX build and haven't yet mastered dodging.


Anyway my point was that you had the build to do it, and all the skills, but you just fumbled on that particular fight because everyone is always like "OMG Capra demon is the worst" so instead of keeping calm and dealing with the situation, you kind of panicked.
Also please understand that I'm not trying to call anyone a scrub if they have difficulties with that fight but I was using that particular bit of the game to illustrate how one can have trouble even with situations that they're equipped to deal with when they get into the "Oh shit!" mindset.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby LambMower » 17 Jun 2014, 07:19

I personally beat Capra in 2 tries, it doesn't make him less bullshit though, I beat him because I knew exactly what to do already.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Master Gunner » 17 Jun 2014, 08:14

Fucking Blighttown.

Question about weapon upgrades: I'm not there yet, but is it worth it to go down the lightning or other magical upgrade paths (in general - I know I'll need a divine weapon for the catacombs)? I'm using the Zweihander and have 28 strength, so I don't know if the lightning damage will make up for the lack of stat-scaling (and I heard that lightning was nerfed in the PC version).
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Genghis Ares » 17 Jun 2014, 08:47

ch3m1kal wrote:Just curious, if you wanted to play a more classic magic user why did you not pick sorcerer?

The pyromancer is meant to be more of a battlemage archetype, where you hit things in the face with punches and weapons and sometimes fire.

Obviously as you progress you can lean more towards using magic, but pyromancy generally has less spell charges than sorcery and also doesn't scale with your stats. The power of pyromancer spells is only modified by the rank of your pyromancy flame, unlike other focus objects which scale with either Intelligence of Faith.


Well, the game doesn't tell you any of that when creating a character. It just says that I can use fire spells. And I think that's a big problem with the game as well, it doesn't really tell you what things do very well or what situation you would need things for. I only just found out that the souls of the dead items that you find are just bundles of souls you can use.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Darkobra » 17 Jun 2014, 08:51

Lightning damage is only really good for PVP because of its ability to bypass block. I just used a +10 regular Uchigatana I think it was called with my dex build. Any damage bypass I eventually learned some weapon enchants in magic to do exactly that.

As for the Capra demon? Up the stairs, take out the dogs first, dodge off the stairs and get ready to fuck him up on his way down. He was a fucker until I had that going.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby ch3m1kal » 17 Jun 2014, 17:17

Genghis Ares wrote:Well, the game doesn't tell you any of that when creating a character. It just says that I can use fire spells. And I think that's a big problem with the game as well, it doesn't really tell you what things do very well or what situation you would need things for. I only just found out that the souls of the dead items that you find are just bundles of souls you can use.


Ah yes, that is indeed the game's biggest failing. It was designed around putting you in situations and forcing you to deal with them, but somehow I don't feel like that should extend to character creation.

There are a bunch of things I hate about Dark Souls too. In fact I never actually finished it, It always managed to eventually piss me off in some way where I couldn't put up with it anymore.

I've just picked it up again recently, mostly because of how much Graham and Alex seem to be enjoying it, they enthusiasm kind of rubbed off.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby daneislazy » 17 Jun 2014, 17:38

Yea, Capra Demon is almost always a huge jerk. But what everyone is saying is true, he can be defeated. I think one issue a lot of new players have is that they just generally get frustrated quickly; thinking that you can defeat the Capra Demon in a couple tries is a bit naïve. This is because even if you have the "correct" approach it won't work out every time. So a lot of new players will throw themselves at it a couple times and in a few different ways and just get mad at it.

It's really difficult to convey to new players that they need to try the same tactic multiple times, even if they are still failing. ch3m1cal's video is a good example of this because while he was successful, he almost died right at the start of the fight and that is the worst part of that fight, and the most common outcome.

As for weapon upgrades: weapons with split damage types will always do less damage than a weapon with a single damage type; when they both read the same damage on the character sheet. So going with lightning, fire or magic will usually result is a damage drop unless the new damage values are substantially higher.
However, having a holy weapon for the skeletons and the Nito fight is pretty helpful. Though it will need to be upgraded quite a bit to be effective.
Aside from that, basic weapons upgraded to +14 are usually fine. And don't bother with Raw.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby ChroniclerC » 18 Jun 2014, 16:32

Actually, I managed to kill the Capra Demon on my first try, thanks to watching the streams and a bit of luck. I knew about the Drake Sword, so I picked it up early as possible (Wow, it's OP at low-level), and I knew to come out of the fog wall swinging, so I took out the zombie dogs mid-jump. After that, I darted up the stairs and killed the demon with a couple plunging attacks.

And now I'm stumbling my way through the Depths. Jeez, it's dark.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Master Gunner » 18 Jun 2014, 16:37

First time I was in the depths, I missed the bonfire, and went all the way through to the boss area. At that point I figured I should probably look up a map, because there had to be a bonfire somewhere in there.

In other news, fuck Blighttown.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby ChroniclerC » 18 Jun 2014, 17:53

I know where the bonfire is. It's behind a locked door. gib key plox
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby LambMower » 18 Jun 2014, 18:29

Found a piece of fanart of Solaire, decided it should be a 1080p wallpaper, made it happen.

Original - Click to Expand
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Labour Fruits - Click to Expand
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby ch3m1kal » 19 Jun 2014, 07:59

Doing some digging around the internet, I managed to find an absolutely excellent critique of Dark Souls 2. It is definitely worth watching regardless of your personal opinion of it, or even if you don't care about DS since it makes a lot of excellent points about game design in general.

Oh and just in case you need to be reminded, please do not read the comments on that video, they will ruin your day and possibly make you dumber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UScsme8didI
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Thysane » 19 Jun 2014, 08:39

Warning: this post may get esoteric pretty quickly and will probably only be interesting to me, but HERE GOES. These are just some random game design musings, don't mind me.

So I've been playing Dark Souls 1 (and enjoying it thoroughly) and thinking about the criticisms people have levelled against Dark Souls 2, specifically the way in which the sections are laid-out and connected. The old-school D&D aesthetic is really doing it for me, but that threw up an interesting connection and comparison point: from what I can tell, the difference in level design between Dark Souls 1 and 2 more-or-less mirrors the way dungeons are approached in certain kinds of old-school D&D modules. When you look at old dungeon supplements, there are broadly two categories that seem to emerge. There's your garden variety dungeon, where there's one entrance and everything is pretty much a straight-forward progression. These tend to feel very gamey and unnatural. Then there's what I call Jacqaysian* dungeon design, where you have multiple branching paths that all interweave and interconnect, there are multiple entrances and exits, and its very likely any given party of adventurers will attack the dungeon in a unique way. If run right, they can feel incredibly alive and verisimilar.

Dark Souls 1 is pure Jacqays. There's not really one, straight-ahead path, and its very possible (due to luck, obliviousness, bloody-mindedness or our friend the Master Key) that a player might miss out on, skip, or come to certain areas in a strange order. Dark Souls 2, on the other hand, seems to tend to the other kind and is worse off for it.

What I'm saying is, Dark Souls 1 is Caverns of Thracia, whereas Dark Souls 2 is more like, I dunno, Keep on the Shadowfell or something. Yeah.

*Paul Jacquays was a designer for Judges Guild in the late-70s, early-80s, and designed some brilliant dungeons, namely the aforementioned classic Caverns of Thracia, which I would highly recommend to fans of dungeon-crawling.**

**christ, I'm a nerd
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Alex Steacy
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Alex Steacy » 19 Jun 2014, 12:02

My beef there is that the arrangement of the DS2 areas is really haphazard, because rather than banking on players using shortcuts and clever level design they can just teleport. The zones are almost randomly clustered together with drab corridors and tunnels connecting them rather than being seamlessly melded pieces of a colossal, unified whole.

And the levels that ARE there look really bland. They contrast sharply with the handful of areas that do have a lot of polish and just stick out like sore thumb. Beyond the lighting engine being busted, the elements in place are very uninspired and feel so much more like video game levels than believable places.

As I mentioned in the stream, all this low quality stuff draws attention to the medium and makes it impossible to suspend my disbelief. It's like watching a movie where you want to be into a dramatic scene but you can see clearly that the cave is made of styrofoam.
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Re: Dark Souls General

Postby Alex Steacy » 19 Jun 2014, 12:09

I refer you to exhibits A and B.

A: Lordran
All places that occupy real space over a large area and join with one another.
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B: Iron Keep
Invisible sky volcano.
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