Xbox live adminstration - Homophobes?

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James
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Postby James » 27 Feb 2009, 12:41

Ok this is it for me in this thread.

It doesn't matter who Microsoft is in this situation. It could be Sony, it could be Nintendo or any other large gaming company. The point that I believe in, and am trying to get across is they have no right to stop people from being proud of who they are and telling whoever they choose to about their sexual orientation, or really anything about them for that matter (unless of course they start telling people they like child pornography or murder, ect)

I understand what Microsoft is "trying" to do, but it is obvisouly not working. If someone wants to go on XBL and make it aware they are gay that is their RIGHT! They should be prepared for whatever might come there way but its still their right to do so.

The simple fact is this will always be an issue until we live in a society that is 100% behind the equal rights for Gays and Lesbians, which, lets face it, is still a ways off. But stuff like this is only going to make getting to that point even harder.
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Postby Matt » 27 Feb 2009, 12:54

James wrote:I understand what Microsoft is "trying" to do, but it is obvisouly not working. If someone wants to go on XBL and make it aware they are gay that is their RIGHT! They should be prepared for whatever might come there way but its still their right to do so.


No it is not. They gave up that right by agreeing to microsoft's terms of use. They lost that right the moment they signed on, and they gave it up willingly.


The simple fact is this will always be an issue until we live in a society that is 100% behind the equal rights for Gays and Lesbians, which, lets face it, is still a ways off. But stuff like this is only going to make getting to that point even harder.


This I agree with, but I see this less as an obstacle to progress, and more of a reflection of the state of affairs.

-m
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Postby Yukikaze » 27 Feb 2009, 18:36

I would argue that until the whole sexuality issue becomes a lot less controversial, a good way to deal with it is to ban any talk of it outright, much like some forums also ban religious or political discussion in all forms.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if religion and politics are also banned subjects for XBL, and technically, sexuality is a shared topic of both, so if either one is banned, then it's gotta go, too. The point here is, this is a place for gaming. People come here to play games, not have deep philosophical debates. If you're going to use it as a soapbox, do so somewhere else.
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Postby Lyinginbedmon » 27 Feb 2009, 18:46

I actually think like a pair of Halo players having a deep philosophical debate on sexuality or somesuch, whilst shooting the other team to ribbons or dodging fire behind cover etc. would be absolutely hilarious.
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Postby Matt » 27 Feb 2009, 19:01

Lyinginbedmon wrote:I actually think like a pair of Halo players having a deep philosophical debate on sexuality or somesuch, whilst shooting the other team to ribbons or dodging fire behind cover etc. would be absolutely hilarious.


LOL.

there's a video in that somewhere.

-m
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Postby Allen! » 27 Feb 2009, 19:19

Hey man my girlfriend told me the word cunt was wrong, because she "knows what it means".

I told her it was her vagina, and she said I was wrong, but refused to tell me what it 'actually' was.
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Postby Yukikaze » 27 Feb 2009, 19:48

Matt wrote:
Lyinginbedmon wrote:I actually think like a pair of Halo players having a deep philosophical debate on sexuality or somesuch, whilst shooting the other team to ribbons or dodging fire behind cover etc. would be absolutely hilarious.


LOL.

there's a video in that somewhere.

-m


That there is.
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Postby Nevrmore » 28 Feb 2009, 00:58

In a perfect world, nobody would be raising a fuss over this because nobody would give a shit about your sexual orientation.

Companies wouldn't have to ban you for saying you're a lesbian because nobody gives a shit enough to be offended.

And you wouldn't have the urge to call blatant and inappropriate attention to your orientation as a lesbian because you wouldn't give enough of a shit to shove that sort of thing in people's faces.

A man can dream.
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Postby Cake » 28 Feb 2009, 01:08

Allen! wrote:I told her it was her vagina, and she said I was wrong, but refused to tell me what it 'actually' was.

The word evolved from Shakespeare referring to that part of the woman anatomy as "a woman's cut." So unless that's what she means, she's wrong.
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Postby iamafish » 28 Feb 2009, 02:20

Allen! wrote:Hey man my girlfriend told me the word cunt was wrong, because she "knows what it means".

I told her it was her vagina, and she said I was wrong, but refused to tell me what it 'actually' was.


i love it when people get all superior and arrogent over something when they are actually wrong.
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Postby Re'ozul » 28 Feb 2009, 06:55

Cake wrote:
Allen! wrote:I told her it was her vagina, and she said I was wrong, but refused to tell me what it 'actually' was.

The word evolved from Shakespeare referring to that part of the woman anatomy as "a woman's cut." So unless that's what she means, she's wrong.


Wikipedia says that the OED says it refers back to 1230. (where it had the same meaning, but was used in the Name "Gropecunt Lane" as a street with prostitutes.)

also interesting link:

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/articles/ ... /Cunt.html
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Postby Yukikaze » 28 Feb 2009, 09:00

Cake wrote:
Allen! wrote:I told her it was her vagina, and she said I was wrong, but refused to tell me what it 'actually' was.

The word evolved from Shakespeare referring to that part of the woman anatomy as "a woman's cut." So unless that's what she means, she's wrong.


Then how was the obscene pun, "Country matters" already well-enough known for Shakespeare to use it in one of his plays?
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Postby Tank_girl » 28 Feb 2009, 18:09

Matt wrote:
I certainly don't see it as an issue that she was asked to remove her sexual orientation from her gamercard. Particularly considering the different gaming communities available on xbox live, and that she might have been playing in the recreational or family-friendly tiers that are oriented towards kids.

-m


Since when does sexual orientation make a person not family friendly?

Vaughn wrote:I got nothing against it. but its ignorant of Gay's/Jew's/Blacks/Muslim's not to expect something like this to happen.

No, it shouldnt happen. But yes, it infallibly. will.


Fixed. Just wanted to point out the point you were making.

Yukikaze wrote:Most people realize that saying "I'm gay!" will get people to pay attention to you. Even an open lesbian should know that by saying she's lesbian, she's going to get swarms of guys descending on her. Basic common sense.


Your right.
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She is only dressed like that to get the attention of her prince charming.

JesterJ. wrote:
Cybren wrote:Can they remove anyone who is black, or who indicates they are black from their service?


If it said they could in their ToS, the person signed the ToS, and they had the desire to, yes they could.

Yeah, Microsoft would lose a lot of customers, it would cause a shitstorm, but they still could if it said in their ToS that they could.


So we have verified that it does infact say in the XBox live ToS "No Mention of sexual orientation"? Cause all i found was:

Xbox Live ToS agreement wrote:8. USE OF COMMUNICATION FACILITIES

-Create a Gamertag or use text other profile fields that may offend other members. This includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate any of the following: profane words/phrases, sexually explicit language, sexual innuendo, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities.


Now some one was offended by her mentioning she was a Lesbian. Yet no one was offended by the following gamer tags;

LadiesMan
JesusFreak
pr0nstarr
Smoker420

Which are clearly in violation of the Microsoft ToS.

Matt wrote:
Telaril wrote:
This... actually might be a big enough thing to make me pick a PS3 over a 360 when I eventually buy something to go with my Wii and PS2. I wonder if any guy's account is banned if he lists "girls" or "ladies" in his interests, or specifies that he has a girlfriend.


If you think sony and nintendo wouldn't have done exactly the same thing, you're wrong.

-m


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Postby Yukikaze » 28 Feb 2009, 18:18

Man, from that rant one would think it was Tank Girl who got banned.
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Postby JesterJ. » 28 Feb 2009, 18:40

Tank_girl wrote:So we have verified that it does infact say in the XBox live ToS "No Mention of sexual orientation"? Cause all i found was:

Xbox Live ToS agreement wrote:8. USE OF COMMUNICATION FACILITIES

-Create a Gamertag or use text other profile fields that may offend other members. This includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate any of the following: profane words/phrases, sexually explicit language, sexual innuendo, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities.

What I was saying was hypothetical, explaining that if it says in the ToS, they can do whatever they want.

I haven't read the ToS nor do I care enough to, but I'm sure it says something that gives Microsoft the right to do whatever they want with XBL.
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Postby Nevrmore » 28 Feb 2009, 19:03

Tank_girl wrote:Since when does sexual orientation make a person not family friendly?

Since someone decided to take Leviticus out of context and run with it.

You're right.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/A_Dyke_on_a_Bike_by_David_Shankbone.jpg[img]

She is only dressed like that to get the attention of her prince charming.

It's one thing to dress up for a pride rally, it's another to mention it unprovoked in your profile. The former smacks of being content and happy with your lifestyle, the latter smacks of attention-whoring.

Now some one was offended by her mentioning she was a Lesbian. Yet no one was offended by the following gamer tags;

LadiesMan
JesusFreak
pr0nstarr
Smoker420

Which are clearly in violation of the Microsoft ToS.

Obviously not.

Would Loading Ready Run?

(My assumption, not speaking on behalf of LRR) LoadingReadyRun is not a business, and therefore probably doesn't give two shits about if people who see them find something about them offensive or not.
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Postby Annchan » 28 Feb 2009, 20:12

I found this article about Xbox live police
http://kotaku.com/362810/the-xbox-live-police
It is an article that is an interview with the heaf of the xbox live "police force
and it mentions at the bottom

Boobs, for example. If it pops up in your Gamertag, or your bio, that's not cool. And no, you can't hide it. The Policy Team spend a lot of time labouring over alternative and slang spellings for naughty words (even going so far as to research global variations on offensive terms), so b00bs, 800bs and Bo0b5 are all just as bad. As are the Spanish, Korean and Latvian alternatives. If you're caught with a word like that in your Gamertag, you won't be able to sign into XBL again until you change it. If you're caught with it in something like your bio, it'll be automatically deleted.


If boobs is improper, then gay will be too.
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Postby Kdz » 28 Feb 2009, 22:21

I'm all for free speech and all that, and, personally, I think anybody should be allowed to say whatever the hell they want, so long as in a way that violates anybody's rights. This is consequentally my view about everything: If it doesn't violate anyone's rights, why not?

That said, I understand the world doesn't work that way, and is a long way from doing so. I also understand that XBL is essentially a private club (requires membership), and as such can apply just about whatever rules they want.

As long as it's not discrimination. So, if they're going to do this kind of thing, as long as they apply it to everybody equally, I see no problem with it.

I can also understand how, since this is a gaming service, anything not really gaming related is perhaps unfit for discussion. Not that is necessarily shouldn't happen, just that there may not be sufficient reason to do so in that particular medium and place.

So while I'm not for it, personally, I understand not everyone shares my views and how publically this could be useful, and therefor I can support Microsoft's decision.

I think I've stated that correctly.
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Postby Nevrmore » 28 Feb 2009, 22:22

Kdz wrote:I'm all for free speech and all that, and, personally, I think anybody should be allowed to say whatever the hell they want, so long as in a way that violates anybody's rights. This is consequentally my view about everything: If it doesn't violate anyone's rights, why not?

I don't think speech is capable of violating someone's rights...
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Postby Kdz » 28 Feb 2009, 22:31

I would say death threats and other such harrassment could be considered such.
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Postby Metcarfre » 28 Feb 2009, 22:42

Or hate speech - specifically addressed in the Criminal Code (of Canada).
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Postby TheRocket » 01 Mar 2009, 15:02

Yukikaze wrote:Man, from that rant one would think it was Tank Girl who got banned.


Yes, Tank Girl is a RAGING LESBO, just because she isn't as ignorant as you.

In that case, I too, am a big lesbian.

And James, he's a lesbian, obviously.


Because what you're saying is that the only lesbian, is a lipstick lesbian. Not someone who would actually be gay because they are gay. They are just all attention grabbing fiends!
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Postby Yukikaze » 01 Mar 2009, 21:56

TheRocketSiobhan wrote:
Yukikaze wrote:Man, from that rant one would think it was Tank Girl who got banned.


Yes, Tank Girl is a RAGING LESBO, just because she isn't as ignorant as you.

No, just that she seems a bit angry about something that I'm fairly sure happened to someone who isn't her. Actually, that logic is dubious at best. "Tank Girl is angry" = "Tank Girl is a lesbian?" What?

Because what you're saying is that the only lesbian, is a lipstick lesbian. Not someone who would actually be gay because they are gay. They are just all attention grabbing fiends!

Generally, guys do not find Butch lesbians attractive. We don't tend to think of things that we don't like, so when the average guy thinks "Lesbian," he thinks "Lipstick lesbian," not "Butch lesbian."

Even so, while I may recognize that Butch lesbians do exist, the typical young-adult heterosexual male may not even know that lesbians come in more flavors than just the "lipstick" variant, meaning that claiming to be a lesbian in a chat room will cause largely unwanted male attention to rain down upon you. Likely most of said attention will be the usual request for nude pics, and pictures of hypothetical "you" kissing another girl. No, I do not do this, yes, I recognize most lesbians are about as horny as a bowling ball. I am not saying the reaction is based on anything resembling truth, I'm just saying it's the reaction you should expect. Expecting anything else is foolish. Really, I'm commenting more on the heterosexual male than on the homosexual female.

Yes, guys are stupid.

In any case, anyone shouting out their sexual orientation (unbidden) in a chat room is looking for attention in one form or another. Either you're trying to announce "We're here, we're queer, live with it," or "Hey boys, I'm a sexy lesbian, you should all make out with me."

Guys who claim to be lesbians fall into the latter category.

Speaking of "unbidden," anyone asking what your orientation is in a chat room is also stepping out of line. Someone's orientation should only matter if you're interested in dating them, and dating internet people is a bad idea. Trust me on this.

I really, really can't imagine someone who had actually read my posts in this thread coming to the conclusion that Siobhan and Tank Girl did about them. It's like you latched onto the first thing I said that you could interpret in anything resembling negative light and decided to use it as an alter to sacrifice me and anyone who shares my opinion(shut up about your sexual orientation when I'm trying to shoot you) on.
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Postby Kdz » 02 Mar 2009, 01:16

Now, I'm with Yuki on one thing in particular: There are places where it is just nonsensical to mention your sexual orientation, either because there is no good reason or because of the reaction you will receive.

It is to this end that I support Microsoft. A gaming service just doesn't make sense for the information to be made available, in the same way that talking about your taxes is kinda unwarranted. Nothing wrong per se, just not always a good idea.

I don't think either of us is trying to say that homosexuality is stupid, or anything like that (of course, I really shouldn't be speaking for other people, so correction - I'm not saying that).
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Postby Nevrmore » 02 Mar 2009, 03:06

Kdz wrote:Now, I'm with Yuki on one thing in particular: There are places where it is just nonsensical to mention your sexual orientation, either because there is no good reason or because of the reaction you will receive.

There ya go.

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