I'd like some feedback on this race I made for Pathfinder

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chetoos
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I'd like some feedback on this race I made for Pathfinder

Postby chetoos » 31 Dec 2016, 09:52

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PhG ... sp=sharing

I was struck with inspiration for a character for Pathfinder, and I was dismayed to find that there were no races that fit what I wanted. The closest was a reptoid, but that seemed dumb, so I sought my friend's help, and he showed off a similar race, but not quite what I wanted. Instead, I tweaked several things and made this. I'd love some feedback, let me know if it needs strengthening, or weakening.
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theycallmejokke
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Re: I'd like some feedback on this race I made for Pathfinde

Postby theycallmejokke » 31 Dec 2016, 13:09

I'm curious do you know of the 3.5 Eberron campagne setting chetoos? If not you might want to give it a look as your Shifter is very close too two of that settings races mechanically, the Shifter and the Changeling and they might make for some good rules inspiration.

As for power level, my gut feeling is your Shifter is somewhat on the overpowered side of things, it is essentially all of the upside from both of the two Eberron races I mentioned, and very little downside.

The vulnerability to cold iron sounds bad at first, however at low levels it won't be an issue as it's the low levels and enemies won't have access to magical materials, and at high level it won't be an issues either as the PCs will have enough magic to protect them self against such weaknesses.

Personally when I try to balance a new race I ask a friend to pilot a PC with said race through a small adventure I GM, seeing the race from behind the DM screen, while also observing others try to figue out my creation is usally very helpful I find.
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Aeralis
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Re: I'd like some feedback on this race I made for Pathfinde

Postby Aeralis » 03 Jan 2017, 09:55

First off, I really like the idea here. It's really interesting to think about how it would work in practice and I like how it has this very powerful ability (true shape changing without the need of spells) that is tempered a bit by clunky usage (needing to go off somewhere private and be disgusting for a while) that prevents abuse.

Power wise... yeah, it's a bit much. I think the tipping point is the Shapechanger's Gift ability. It just lets the character do too many things with no real drawbacks. Plus it also kinda goes against the core limiting factor that they can only transform into other versions of their parent race. I'd say either get rid of it altogether or make it an optional trait that makes the character forfeit the Deceptive trait (a Shifter that is willing to mutate their form in such a way would be less focused on keeping up appearances) and/or some weapon proficiencies (having ready access to natural weapons makes the Shifter less inclined to become proficient with other weapons). You could also consider tying in some other racial weaknesses to go along with the cold iron vulnerability. Like, maybe sonic damage rattles their ability to maintain their disguise or fire burns away their current skin.

My big thing is I'm stumped on what position this race would serve in a game. The descriptions make it pretty clear that this thing is rather predisposed to evil, for all practicality everyone it comes across should be completely untrusting of even outright terrified of it, and playing a Kitsune with the Realistic Likeness feat pretty much serves most any infiltration/disguise needs unless your game has a shockingly low human population.

Ultimately, as it stands now, it feels much more like something you'd make as your campaign's villain organization rather than a PC race. But there's definitely stuff to work with here! It's a fantastic base to work off of.
chetoos
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Re: I'd like some feedback on this race I made for Pathfinde

Postby chetoos » 03 Jan 2017, 18:34

Aeralis wrote:First off, I really like the idea here. It's really interesting to think about how it would work in practice and I like how it has this very powerful ability (true shape changing without the need of spells) that is tempered a bit by clunky usage (needing to go off somewhere private and be disgusting for a while) that prevents abuse.

Power wise... yeah, it's a bit much. I think the tipping point is the Shapechanger's Gift ability. It just lets the character do too many things with no real drawbacks. Plus it also kinda goes against the core limiting factor that they can only transform into other versions of their parent race. I'd say either get rid of it altogether or make it an optional trait that makes the character forfeit the Deceptive trait (a Shifter that is willing to mutate their form in such a way would be less focused on keeping up appearances) and/or some weapon proficiencies (having ready access to natural weapons makes the Shifter less inclined to become proficient with other weapons). You could also consider tying in some other racial weaknesses to go along with the cold iron vulnerability. Like, maybe sonic damage rattles their ability to maintain their disguise or fire burns away their current skin.

My big thing is I'm stumped on what position this race would serve in a game. The descriptions make it pretty clear that this thing is rather predisposed to evil, for all practicality everyone it comes across should be completely untrusting of even outright terrified of it, and playing a Kitsune with the Realistic Likeness feat pretty much serves most any infiltration/disguise needs unless your game has a shockingly low human population.

Ultimately, as it stands now, it feels much more like something you'd make as your campaign's villain organization rather than a PC race. But there's definitely stuff to work with here! It's a fantastic base to work off of.


I like the idea of having deceptive and shifter's gift be alternates, and I did go in and edit some of their descriptions to make it seem less like they're all evil, though the character I was planning to play is totally evil, only adventuring for his own ends, mostly political :P.

Regardless, I'll have to consult with my friends on adding more vulnerabilities to them, since I can't think of a good way to have the fire do things (My gut tells me something along the lines of "since a shifter's skin is rapidly made, it burns more easily), but I don't think I like the sonic damage idea. A shifter's form isn't a disguise, it's just its body, it's not something that sonic damage would disrupt.
My Youtube Channel. Currently, I have a daily series where I play games that I like. Right now, it's Double Dragon Advance. I also have a weekly series where I play as the Archenemy from Duels 2012
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Aeralis
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Re: I'd like some feedback on this race I made for Pathfinde

Postby Aeralis » 03 Jan 2017, 21:07

The sonic damage was a stretch, just tossing out ideas to get creative juices flowing. I'm also not sure extra weaknesses are really necessary as long as Shapechanger's Gift gets throttled back. (Which it looks like it has a bit.)

Anyway, I like where it's going. I feel like I need more eyes on this before I can evaluate it further though; It seems alright, but I could just be burned out on thinking on it. :p
chetoos
Posts: 390
Joined: 10 Jul 2011, 16:32
First Video: The Job

Re: I'd like some feedback on this race I made for Pathfinde

Postby chetoos » 04 Jan 2017, 03:59

That's fair, and thank you very much for the help you've provided so far. I'm also considering adding an optional "extra meals" rule for games where the GM actually tracks meals, since it would make sense that RIPPING YOUR F***ING SKIN OFF AND GROWING NEW SKIN would make one a little peckish.
My Youtube Channel. Currently, I have a daily series where I play games that I like. Right now, it's Double Dragon Advance. I also have a weekly series where I play as the Archenemy from Duels 2012

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