CC - Aliens

Discuss Alex and Cam's new series where they talk over movies
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Paul
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CC - Aliens

Postby Paul » 15 Jul 2014, 13:09

James Cameron's Aliens (1986) is a very different movie from its predecessor and we love the Director's Cut for slightly different reasons.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby WampaX » 15 Jul 2014, 16:01

Okay,
This one seems to be running along fine with the indicated Special Edition cut.
No appreciable jumps or de-synchs.

I think the assessment of "Alien has an incomprehensible number of versions" was the correct one for the issues before.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby Bergie » 15 Jul 2014, 17:19

Mine is working almost perfectly. If anything, the movie might be running a bit faster than C&A, but that could just be delay in see-to-talk.

Great job!
Last edited by Bergie on 16 Jul 2014, 06:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby Bergie » 15 Jul 2014, 17:51

Also, I must disagree (to a degree, anyway) re: the robot turrets:

I think that they hammer home the inability of them to rely on their technology to save them. At the time, it looks effective, and makes the realization that the aliens have gotten around it with ease all the more crushing.

Is it necessary? No, and that is why it was cut. Is it as bad as you thought? I don't think so.

ADDENDUM: Also, I disagree with your statement that Prometheus did almost everything wrong. In my opinion, Prometheus did everything almost RIGHT, but because they only ALMOST did each thing right, it came across as half-assed, lazy, and nonsensical. Another 10% across the board would have made a good movie, but because EVERYTHING is only part finished the movie is far worse than the sum of its parts.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby Jurjee » 16 Jul 2014, 06:18

Buildin' a sentry!
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby The E » 16 Jul 2014, 06:29

Bergie wrote:Also, I must disagree (to a degree, anyway) re: the robot turrets:

I think that they hammer home the inability of them to rely on their technology to save them. At the time, it looks effective, and makes the realization that the aliens have gotten around it with ease all the more crushing.

Is it necessary? No, and that is why it was cut. Is it as bad as you thought? I don't think so.

ADDENDUM: Also, I disagree with your statement that Prometheus did almost everything wrong. In my opinion, Prometheus did everything almost RIGHT, but because they only ALMOST did each thing right, it came across as half-assed, lazy, and nonsensical. Another 10% across the board would have made a good movie, but because EVERYTHING is only part finished the movie is far worse than the sum of its parts.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby ch3m1kal » 16 Jul 2014, 10:37

Well that was great, I enjoyed it more than the first episode, though that may at least partially down to the fact that Aliens is a far more entertaining film than Alien.

Sync was 100% good on this one so thanks a lot for that!

It also made me notice a few silly things about Aliens, such as how nobody in film ever actually aims their weapon, or that the power loader has lights built into the inside of the safety cage so we can see Sigourney Weaver's face in the final scene.

I personally disagree with the colony scene being cut, it helped humanize the colony a little bit and put a face on the colonists that are otherwise killed almost entirely off-screen. Yes, it's not necessary but while it doesn't add a lot to the film, it helps build the world a little bit. Personally I also liked the sort of symmetry in cutting from the scene with the hand-like facehugger to Ripley's hand.
Last edited by ch3m1kal on 17 Jul 2014, 00:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby TMC_SHerpa » 16 Jul 2014, 19:46

Very well done guys although I have a few points I'd like to add.

1) You mention Red Dwarf in Alien but no love for Mac (Captain Hollister) in Aliens?

2) I assumed Weyland picked that particular marine unit to send to LV-426 because they were the most expendable one they had. I'm not sure if Burke was also part of that equation but it wouldn't surprise me. I mean the Sulaco is expensive so they probably want that to come home but the crew?

3) I thought the "pipe" was a reference to the atmospheric entry angle (5.5 degrees) so the ship wouldn't burn up but I'll admit I haven't done any research to see what the canonical version of the phrase is.

4) One of the things I really appreciated was when Ripley was suiting up at the end none of the gear magically was the right size. The guns were big, the bandoleer was loose when she put it on. One of the things that bugs me in films and TV is when someone grabs something that clearly wasn't made for them but it fits perfectly.

5) I'll listen to the Prometheus cast but I'm not still not gonna buy it :)
Lazy and willing to work very hard to stay that way.

Also dang misplaced caps!
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 18 Jul 2014, 13:01

TMC_SHerpa wrote:3) I thought the "pipe" was a reference to the atmospheric entry angle (5.5 degrees) so the ship wouldn't burn up but I'll admit I haven't done any research to see what the canonical version of the phrase is.


"Five by five" is absolutely a reference to communications strength and clarity. The "pipe," though, probably is a reference to being on the correct course (Does the film even show that navigation screen with the rectangles being flown through? I imagine that's the "pipe.").

That says to me that the "pipe" and "five by five" are sequential, unrelated phrases.

This has been pedantry 101 with Arclight_Dynamo. :D
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby Bergie » 18 Jul 2014, 16:38

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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby A-Z » 19 Jul 2014, 03:49

I just finished listened to the commentary and thoroughly enjoyed it. The lack of slurping sounds was especially appreciated;) but I do feel the need to offer a correction on one point:

When Alex mentioned the Marines being an elite force when discussing their professionalism during their introduction; because the Marines, as an independent military force, currently constitute the world’s third-largest naval power and the 8th largest army in the world… And people think the US only spends its money on being number one. Nope, at almost 200,000 strong the US Marine Corps might remain specialized in its role but elite they are not. Anyway, looking forward to seeing you and Cam rip Prometheus a new one, in an educational entertaining kind of way.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 19 Jul 2014, 08:55

Well, I do wonder if the USMC was considered "elite" in the filmmakers' context, as the film itself is clearly based on Vietnam-era US military tropes. As I understand it, during that war, the Marines were elite, at least compared to the US Army, as they were almost entirely a voluntary, professional standing force whereas the Army was largely conscripts.

In any case, the Aliens "marines" do read to me more as "conscripted fuckarounds" rather than "professional fighting force" - which isn't how Marines are portrayed, at least in the context of media about Vietnam, if not in reality.

Does that seem reasonable?
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby rogue_eclipse » 19 Jul 2014, 17:44

Had to laugh when the guys mentioned Kiran Shah during the credits. Never realised he was in Aliens as the double for Newt.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 20 Jul 2014, 10:13

Oh, also, there was some question in this episode as to why militaries don't use flamethrowers anymore. Well, the US military was using them up through the Vietnam War... which is also the era when wars became televised. And that's your answer - it's hard to look like the good guys on CNN when your soldiers are engulfing fellow humans in a stream of flame.

The horrible things were taken out of service not because they're ineffective, and not because they're inhumane, but because they're a PR disaster.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby A-Z » 22 Jul 2014, 09:33

Arclight_Dynamo wrote:the Aliens "marines" do read to me more as "conscripted fuckarounds" rather than "professional fighting force" - which isn't how Marines are portrayed, at least in the context of media about Vietnam, if not in reality.

Does that seem reasonable?


Cetainly A most reasonable explanation.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby Lysander » 26 Jul 2014, 20:57

Rather cool. Interesting commentary and analysis. Some of it made me laugh, some made me nod in agreement, other parts made me shrug. It's kind of weird but I've never seen a version of this movie that had the scene of the colony before it went to hell. It did feel like redundant hand-holding. Maybe some of the test-audiences showed confusion?

You guys talking about Moebius got me thinking about The Fifth Element. I love that movie, despite its flaws. Mostly for the artistry and design -- I love all the practical effects and miniatures they used. I think it might be fun to hear your comments on it.

I hadn't wanted to watch Prometheus. For the most part I try avoiding bad movies, because it feels too much like wasted resources. But if I'm learning something from it, I suppose it would be worth it. Your commentary will soothe things.

Alien 4 was interesting. Parts of it were good. It felt like they were doing too much. Too many segues into ideas that would probably make good movies on their own, but perhaps not part of the Alien franchise. Which is disappointing, because I quite liked City of Lost Children and Amelie. Still haven't gotten around to seeing Delicatesen or Micmacs, but their on my list. I guess his storytelling style doesn't fit the Alien movies.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby Thysane » 04 Aug 2014, 09:16

Another excellent commentary guys, and one which I'm not surprised to say I pretty much agreed with. Though, this was one of those situations with a movie where you know you're bothered by something, but can't quite put your finger on it. I've never seen the original theatrical cut of Aliens, so I remember watching it for the first time and thinking it felt overlong, but I could never figure out anything more beyond that. One of those things where you don't notice the real reasons until after a few more viewings and, you know, someone actually pointing it out for you like Cameron and Alex in this commentary.

Good, enriching stuff. Some people complain that analysis kills the experience of watching a movie, but I'm personally of the opinion that it infinitely improves it. Can't wait to hear/watch the next one. Any idea when that might be?
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby johanlarson » 01 Sep 2014, 16:45

The Prometheus episode is next, right? When should we expect it?
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby johanlarson » 01 Sep 2014, 17:19

Lysander wrote:Alien 4 was interesting. Parts of it were good. It felt like they were doing too much. Too many segues into ideas that would probably make good movies on their own, but perhaps not part of the Alien franchise.


Apparently both Alien 3 and Alien 4 were troubled productions, with a lot of different script ideas thrown around, and rewrite upon rewrite.

I agree with you that both films have some good parts -- I am particularly fond of the basketball scene in Alien 4 -- but as a whole they have real problems.

Anyone wanting to do another Alien movie would do well to retcon 3 and 4, and just restart after 2. I think that would work. Comic books have been doing retcons and reboots for a long time, and comic book sensibilities are pretty much mainstream at this point. You'd need to recast Ripley and Higgs and Newt by now anyway.
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Re: CC - Aliens

Postby mutant_pie » 08 Aug 2015, 13:05

I worked onset and offset on Alien Resurrection (#4 in the series). It was troubled onset. At the time as fan of the series and related things, I had looked at the comic books by DarkHorse. They directly lifted scenes and story elements from the comic book for this film, but not the "heart" of the story telling. This was a significant mistake. A main trouble onset was that they had taken a successful French director and tried to drop him into the Los Angeles/Hollywood film making machine, and I don't think that it was a good fit.

The moral of the story kids, if you ever get a film deal, get final story and cut approval. This doesn't mean that you don't collaborate, just that your vision doesn't get diluted to mush.

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