Doctor Who

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tbug
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby tbug » 16 Jul 2017, 14:10

She is the fourteenth incarnation of this particular Time Lord, but only the thirteenth to use the name "The Doctor". Peter Capaldi's character is the twelfth Doctor, so this just follows from that.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Elomin Sha » 16 Jul 2017, 14:46

So because John Hurt called himself War Doctor that negates him as a Doctor? That's kind of dumb.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Gap Filler » 16 Jul 2017, 15:38

Yeah storyline reasons. You had to be there.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Robo4900 » 16 Jul 2017, 15:59

The idea was that, because of the atrocities he committed in the Time War, the War Doctor didn't call himself the Doctor. When he became Eccleston, he denounced that version of himself, and called himself #9. The rest of the incarnations followed suit, and by the time the Tennant and Smith incarnations encountered him in the 50th special and forgave him, this numbering system was already ingrained in, so they didn't bother changing it.

Elomin -- If you have any interest in picking the show back up, this latest season was deliberately designed as a great jumping-on point, which it achieves very effectively. And overall, it's a very good season, IMO the best of Moffat's run.

As for Jodie Whittaker, she was very good in Black Mirror, and I look forward to seeing where she and Chris Chibnall take the character and show. :)
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Elomin Sha » 17 Jul 2017, 03:24

Thanks for the info. When I left Doctor Who I was really giving it chance but I was already on the way out. What really clinched it was the death of Matt Smith's Doctor. He had some okay pieces but the lead up to his death felt it was supposed to be bigger and we had that steaming pile of an episode. With Capaldi, he was good as a more angry person but the stories, and character development were very bland. It may also be face palming to say this given how fun the show is supposed to be; it got stupid.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Robo4900 » 17 Jul 2017, 06:57

I had similar complaints during all of Moffat's run, but he definitely ironed it out in this most recent season, I'd say.
And I think Capaldi was definitely a little shaky during his first season, but he figured it out in the last couple of seasons. In this one in particular, he was pretty great IMO.

And yeah, Matt Smith's farewell episode was awful. I don't know what they were thinking at the time.
Honestly, I really didn't like Matt Smith's run overall. There were a few good episodes, but the 11th Doctor as a character, aswell as Amy and Rory just struck me as cringy at best. Capaldi's first season did feel like just more of that at first, but things improved a lot in his second season, although there were still a lot of forgettable episodes.
It's a little sad in some ways that the season where Moffat finally got things just right is his very last one. If his previous seasons had been more like this, I don't think his run would have been so divisive.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Elomin Sha » 17 Jul 2017, 08:16

I'm probably going to give it a miss. I'm quite stubborn when it comes to things I don't like/go off. Like Top Gear I'm just going to have to replace it with something else. At least Game of Thrones is on now.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Darkflame » 17 Jul 2017, 11:45

Ironically, I found this last season the worst. No standout awful episodes, but everything a little too straightforward. Very oldschool, which is absolutely fine for a change, but a whole season of monster-of-the-week it felt like.
Nothing as powerful/character based as, say, Heaven Sent or Listen. For that mater no really cool new monster or spins on old ones (Asylum of the Daleks). The monks were a letdown despite good potential.

That said, thats all plotwise complaints - the Doctor/Companion chemistry worked great.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby MotorWaffle » 17 Jul 2017, 15:50

Smith was fantastic at portraying an old person in a young body in certain scenes, but yeah, that last episode was every terrible Moffat-ism front and center. Too many ideas fighting for screentime, too much that went nowhere (the entire joke of the Doctor being naked at the start, the truth field, Handles, who I enjoyed but in a 'Tom Bombadil is fun but doesn't need to be here' kind of way), and a really wonky tension-resolution dynamic that just felt pretty unsatisfying. Also I just didn't like Clara as much as I felt I was expected to. They're the same issues that plagued a lot of Capaldi's run, which is sad because I really enjoyed his Doctor by himself.

I'm really not that fussed about the new Doctor, because I think the new showrunner is going to have more impact on the overall product that she will.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Elomin Sha » 18 Jul 2017, 03:14

MotorWaffle wrote:I'm really not that fussed about the new Doctor, because I think the new showrunner is going to have more impact on the overall product that she will.

It's going to go more downhill than it already has been?
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Robo4900 » 18 Jul 2017, 07:35

Elomin Sha wrote:It's going to go more downhill than it already has been?

They're getting a new showrunner; it's the guy who runs Broadchurch.
We have no idea how he'll be. I personally am cautiously optimistic. Don't want to get my hopes up after how disappointing Moffat turned out, but I hear this guy's good, so as I say, cautiously optimistic.

MotorWaffle wrote:Smith was fantastic at portraying an old person in a young body in certain scenes

I always thought that was one big thing Smith never managed to do convincingly, and that's a lot of the reason why I never liked him. I always thought he lacked gravitas, something Tennant could do exceedingly well, and in the end, I thought Smith's Doctor came off a little immature.
I guess that's us Whovians for you; physically allergic to the concept of consensus.

MotorWaffle wrote:but yeah, that last episode was every terrible Moffat-ism front and center. Too many ideas fighting for screentime, too much that went nowhere (the entire joke of the Doctor being naked at the start, the truth field, Handles, who I enjoyed but in a 'Tom Bombadil is fun but doesn't need to be here' kind of way), and a really wonky tension-resolution dynamic that just felt pretty unsatisfying. Also I just didn't like Clara as much as I felt I was expected to.

I agree. I did appreciate Clara quite a lot initially, as I personally found Amy to be completely unlikeable, and I found Rory a particularly bland variety of vanilla, so it was nice to have someone actually likeable, but yeah, she was a little dull.

MotorWaffle wrote:They're the same issues that plagued a lot of Capaldi's run, which is sad because I really enjoyed his Doctor by himself.

Eh, I think things improved. The writing had been improving all along, with several standout episodes in series 7, in particular. Capaldi improved things immensely by being able to carry us through some of the less good stuff; his character was fascinating, and he was able to do things like the Zygon speech, which turned a pretty good episode into a classic, in my opinion.

As for series 10 overall, I will admit it was largely devoid of particularly stand-out good episodes, but it was consistently pretty good with some great character interaction giving it a fun atmosphere(Rather reminiscent of the first two series of the revived run), and IMO there was only one dud episode, which wasn't really that bad. Meanwhile, last series had Sleep No More; the less said about that episode, the better...
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 18 Jul 2017, 12:47

I agree about series 10. Every episode was fine, but there wasn't a killer episode nor a dud episode. Even the episodes I expected to be duds were actually good.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Darkflame » 18 Jul 2017, 13:07

I'm pessimistic....that way I am not disappointing :P
Cyberwoman and Power of Three both were pretty darn terrible, so if I expect that quality from the new writer again then it should all be a pleasant surprise right? :P
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"and he was able to do things like the Zygon speech, which turned a pretty good episode into a classic, in my opinion."

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Re: Doctor Who

Postby tbug » 18 Jul 2017, 13:18

I liked the focus on the companions (the "posse") in Dinosaurs On a Spaceship. RTD had a companion focus that Moffat lacked, I think, and maybe we'll see more of that now.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby MotorWaffle » 18 Jul 2017, 19:04

Robo4900 wrote:I always thought that was one big thing Smith never managed to do convincingly, and that's a lot of the reason why I never liked him. I always thought he lacked gravitas, something Tennant could do exceedingly well, and in the end, I thought Smith's Doctor came off a little immature.
I guess that's us Whovians for you; physically allergic to the concept of consensus.


It was just a couple scenes, really, typically when he was showing sadness or the like. A particular way of standing, rubbing his hands together and shoulder position just made me think of an old man for some reason.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Darkflame » 19 Jul 2017, 02:38

I also thought Smith did pretty good at old - and weirdly, Capaldi at being young.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 19 Jul 2017, 08:57

Why did it take so long for him to be a University professor? Because Capaldi's wisened man with the curiosity of a child suites that so well. Shame we won't get any more of that.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Darkflame » 29 Jul 2017, 05:32

Moffat wrote a little farewell message to who;
http://racheltalalay.tumblr.com/post/16 ... -final-dwm

I think the Capaldi moments he lists there are pretty much my favorites too.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Robo4900 » 31 Jul 2017, 06:20

That was a fun read.

I do look forward to whatever Moffat does next. Maybe now that he hasn't got Doctor Who to do, he can focus on Sherlock and give us a season 5 that makes up for the mistakes of season 4.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Darkflame » 05 Aug 2017, 08:00

I think he is helping out with the Hollywood version of Jekyll next. Not really sure it will work so well as a film, but I got my fingers crossed.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Robo4900 » 07 Aug 2017, 07:11

I'd heard he was collaborating with Mark Gatiss on a Dracula series.

I'd like them to focus on Sherlock's next season to be honest, and hopefully they can deliver a satisfying finalé, then they can put all their energy towards making Dracula really good after that.
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Re: Doctor Who

Postby Darkflame » 08 Aug 2017, 06:10

oh, your right yes. He mentions "dark things", so that would make sense.
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Sherlock might be better with a little break. I did actually enjoy the 2nd episode the best last season (the one Moffat wrote), but its fair to say the show struggles to "be clever". Jonathan Creak had a similar issue after awhile - scripting impossible crimes isn't easy. So taking time to collect new ideas might be a good idea.
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