This thread is so gay

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Avistew
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Avistew » 12 Jun 2016, 14:08

About the blood ban, the lifelong ban has been lifted but the one year ban still exists. Here are the relevant guidelines as they stand now (since last year):

- Defer for 12 months from the most recent contact a man who has had sex with another man during the past 12 months.
- Defer for 12 months from the most recent contact a female who has had sex during the past 12 months with a man who has had sex with another man in the past 12 months.

The previous bans were lifelong for a man who has ever had sex with men, and 12 month for a woman since the last time she had sex with a man who has ever had sex with a man (rather than a man who did so in the past 12 months).

So, it doesn't really make a difference for a man who is in a relationship with a man, provided they have sex once a year or more. It does make a difference for a man who has had sex with men but not in the part year, or a woman whose partner is bisexual if they've been monogamously together for a year or more (or if other partners were female).

I'm still banned, personally, since two of my male partners are in a relationship together, so I'd need to stop having sex with both of them for 12 month, or them with each other. But it's mostly a problem for men in a relationship with other men (since my situation is super unusual).

And it's still BS although better than it used to be.

Note than the ban is still lifelong if you have ever paid/been paid for sex or if you have ever taken intravenous drugs.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby AdmiralMemo » 12 Jun 2016, 16:14

Arclight_Dynamo wrote:(I have seen that they may have waived the ban locally since there's an emergency. But I only saw it on Twitter, so I'm not sure if it's true. Also, it doesn't change the fact that there's normally a ban.)
Just on this point to make sure everything is sourced... The Verge reported that OneBlood was ignoring FDA regulations and allowing gay men to donate... http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/12/11912020/oneblood-blood-donation-orlando
However, this was a false report and OneBlood has denied this. The article was updated to reflect that.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 12 Jun 2016, 18:15

Avistew:

Yep. The most galling thing is that they screen for the wrong behaviours.

Say there are two gay men who have never had sex before. They get into a monogamous relationship - marry, even - and only have sex with each other. They can't donate blood.

Now, say there's a straight man who has unprotected sex with three women every night for a year. He can donate blood.

Which is riskier to the blood supply?

AdmiralMemo:

Well, there you have it, then.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 13 Jun 2016, 02:44

Arclight_Dynamo wrote:Avistew:

Yep. The most galling thing is that they screen for the wrong behaviours.

Say there are two gay men who have never had sex before. They get into a monogamous relationship - marry, even - and only have sex with each other. They can't donate blood.

Now, say there's a straight man who has unprotected sex with three women every night for a year. He can donate blood.

Which is riskier to the blood supply?

AdmiralMemo:

Well, there you have it, then.


Well, at the time the rules were made... the former, statistically.

One of the things you learn when working in a very large organisation is that few things have as much power as precedence- or, in other words, "if it ain't broke don't fix it". This is particularly true the closer one gets to the kings of bureaucracy that are governmental organisations. At the time the HIV/AIDS rules were put in place, there was relatively little information available other than that the gay community (such as it was at the time) were at massively increased risk, and the authorities were utterly terrified of it 'getting out' into the wider populace (side note: it's this kind of very subtle homophobia that never gets noticed when it changes, but is probably the most important kind of cultural development). My mum was working in healthcare at the time and saw it all happening from the inside. So the rules were put in place rather like a foot-and-mouth outbreak- the gay community were as best as possible 'closed off' from the outside world in a desperate hope to stop a pandemic.

And it worked. Whether it ever WOULD have been a genuine pandemic or not is a matter up for considerable debate, but the fact is that it didn't and the medical establishment breathed a huge sigh of relief. And so 'the rules' regarding blood donation got the unofficial rubber stamp as 'working', making them almost impossible to change with any kind of speed because of the sheer amount of process and paperwork and information processing that always accompanies any non-emergency decision in a large organisation.

Now, I don't say any of this because I agree with the rules in particular, but because simply deriding the rules as stupid doesn't get us anywhere. Fixing a process is like fixing a broken bone- it requires care and subtlety and a willingness to put up with its bullshit for a bit in order to get it moving just how you want it.

Simple rhetoric doesn't get us anywhere.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 13 Jun 2016, 04:56

It is staying on my mind the massacre, more than past massacres. It's more personal, even though there are thousands of miles between the victims and me. My brothers and sisters were attacked.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 13 Jun 2016, 10:45

I'm going to push back on that a little, Ix.

While I take your point that when the ban was first instituted, it made sense as an emergency measure, it stopped making sense around 1990 or so - when it became clear that HIV was predominantly transmitted as a sexual infection.

So when I talk about two gay men who have never had sex with anyone but each other, what I'm doing isn't deriding the rule. What I'm doing is pointing out that the rule, now that we know more than we did about HIV than in 1983, doesn't make sense. It targets the wrong behaviours (gay male sex per se rather than promiscuous, unprotected sex of any kind).

Statistically, given current medical understanding, the two gay men I talk about pose a near-nil risk to the blood supply. But the promiscuous straight guy engaging in risky sex poses, statistically, a very high risk. And the current rules don't take that into account. At all.

The utility in pointing this out is to show people in charge of the blood supply that their policies do not bring about the objectives they're seeking. It isn't about deriding the rule, or about spouting rhetoric. It's about pointing out a logical and practical inconsistency in the rules that leads to discrimination and the potential for real harm to people.

And, crassly, it points out to these policy-makers that they aren't sufficiently covering their asses. That is a sure-fire way to get a bureaucracy to change. You wanna see bureaucrats hop to it and change policies to your liking? Point out that, unless they adopt your preferred policies, they're gonna get into trouble.

That's what this does: by pointing out that the current discriminatory policy can also lead to the blood supply being put at risk (and thus bureaucrats getting into serious hot water), we provide a serious, personal incentive for the bureaucracy to make the changes that we want to see.

Edit: "Bloody supply" doesn't mean "blood supply." Whoops.
Last edited by Arclight_Dynamo on 13 Jun 2016, 10:48, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby CamelKnackRambleHort » 13 Jun 2016, 10:46

I don't even know what to think. We gotta get guns under control.

Also, a special fuck you to Ted Cruz for using this to push his politics. He endorsed the words of a man who called for the death penalty for us. He called for this to happen.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 13 Jun 2016, 10:50

CamelKnackRambleHort:

And not just Cruz. There are a lot of politicians in the same boat. To hell with them.

As for guns... yeah. Looking at the US from this side of the border, the situation is unimaginable. It's... ugh. I want to find a better word for it that doesn't insult the mentally ill, but all I can come up with is some variation on "insane." :(
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Fenrir » 13 Jun 2016, 11:51

I don't even know where to begin with all this ...

But I wrote a thing: http://dismuke.tumblr.com/post/145857406482/on-orlando
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Aeralis » 13 Jun 2016, 18:57

I've been fuming about this to my friends for the past two days, so I'll keep my thoughts on the topic brief:

I hate how the main focus has been on the completely unsubstantiated idea that the shooter might have religious or ISIS related motives and the fact that this was a monstrous hate crime against the LGBT community is being swept under the rug. The fact that the media is using this as a springboard to further the anti-Islam hate train and ignoring literally every other controversial aspect surrounding it is nothing short of disgusting.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 13 Jun 2016, 21:26

Yep.

I'll also note that it isn't the LGBTQ community that's braying at Muslims. It's mostly people who usually bray at LGBTQ folks braying at Islam.

Typical.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 14 Jun 2016, 13:08

And now here's a thing that puts into words a thing I didn't know I was feeling until I read it:

That’s where the guilt enters in. The deep, deep isolating guilt that comes from internalized bi-phobia.

Am I allowed to feel this devastated, this full of rage?

Am I gay enough to be this upset?

Am I appropriating the grief of real gay people?

It hurts. On top of the pain and grief of loss, on top of the “that could’ve been me, that could’ve been my friends”, on top of the psychological terror, there’s also the sinking feeling of self-doubt.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 14 Jun 2016, 14:08

I've been blessed to have my social feed filled with stories of love and defiance and compassion regarding this travesty.
I felt shit after Sunday, and seeing all the good that has slowly been emerging in the aftermath has slowly been lifting me up.

We must turn our eyes from those who want to exploit this tragedy to push hatred. There are many people in the world who are grieving who are trying to make this world a better place in defiance. Let's look at them.

It still hurts. But people are doing good because of this.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby JustAName » 14 Jun 2016, 14:50

Arclight_Dynamo wrote:And now here's a thing that puts into words a thing I didn't know I was feeling until I read it:

That’s where the guilt enters in. The deep, deep isolating guilt that comes from internalized bi-phobia.

Am I allowed to feel this devastated, this full of rage?

Am I gay enough to be this upset?

Am I appropriating the grief of real gay people?

It hurts. On top of the pain and grief of loss, on top of the “that could’ve been me, that could’ve been my friends”, on top of the psychological terror, there’s also the sinking feeling of self-doubt.


Yeah, I saw this one and it really spoke to me. I still sometimes feel not queer enough but at least there are others I guess.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Psyclone » 14 Jun 2016, 18:29

I'm so tired. My boss is texting me asking me to pick up more hours and my landlord is texting me about my security deposit and I just can't deal with it. I don't want to talk to cis straight people right now.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 15 Jun 2016, 12:40

As of today, I've seen videos by at least four evangelical ministers talking about the shootings in Orlando. Know what they've been saying?

"I don't condone the shootings, but only because that vigilantism. Queer people should absolutely be killed. But it should be the government doing it. They should be arrested, tried, found guilty, and lined up against a wall."

(I'm paraphrasing, but I can link the videos, if you really want)

Because, yes, the real problem here isn't murder or homophobia; it's that the homophobic murderer didn't fill out the proper forms first.

Call me a nerd, but my first thought was "Oh. These people are lawful evil."

Madness...
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 15 Jun 2016, 12:59

Yes. It's horrific BS.

The number of times I've been listening to online sermons which I had to stop listening because the speaker's homophobia started vomiting from their mouths.

Now is not the time for people to share their twisted theological stance. Really bad time. I facepalm with such force right now. There is no love there. There is no acknowledgement of the humanity involved here. I am repulsed by the attitudes.

As a decent human being, you do not exploit the bloodshed of many innocents to promote your own self-righteous crusade.
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But Arclight, even though there are these people who say these scum things, there are lots of people who are reaching out with love. Fix your eyes on them.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Elomin Sha » 15 Jun 2016, 13:39

Psyclone wrote:I don't want to talk to cis straight people right now.

That's rude.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 15 Jun 2016, 14:05

Elomin Sha wrote:
Psyclone wrote:I don't want to talk to cis straight people right now.

That's rude.


Is it, though? This isn't about straight cis people. It's about Psyclone, and the stress they're feeling. They're letting off steam, in a safe space, and that's okay.

Say someone's been catching a lot of BS from, I dunno, men lately. They say to you "God, I hate men."

It's not about men. And, likely, they don't actually hate men. What's going on is that that person is expressing frustration, stress, exhaustion... whatever... to you. The proper response isn't "That's rude" or "#NotAllMen." It's "I'm sorry. I hope you feel better soon."

Merrymaker_Mortalis:

Sure. Maybe. But ignoring the assholes doesn't make them go away. Talking about them does.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Fenrir » 15 Jun 2016, 14:24

Arclight_Dynamo wrote:
Elomin Sha wrote:
Psyclone wrote:I don't want to talk to cis straight people right now.

That's rude.


Is it, though? This isn't about straight cis people. It's about Psyclone, and the stress they're feeling. They're letting off steam, in a safe space, and that's okay.

Say someone's been catching a lot of BS from, I dunno, men lately. They say to you "God, I hate men."

It's not about men. And, likely, they don't actually hate men. What's going on is that that person is expressing frustration, stress, exhaustion... whatever... to you. The proper response isn't "That's rude" or "#NotAllMen." It's "I'm sorry. I hope you feel better soon."

Merrymaker_Mortalis:

Sure. Maybe. But ignoring the assholes doesn't make them go away. Talking about them does.


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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Elomin Sha » 15 Jun 2016, 14:27

Yes, it would be rude if said in regards to anyone.
"I don't want to talk Welsh people right now."
"I don't want to talk to gay people right now."
"I don't want to talk to chinese people right now."
Getting frustrated is normal when you've got a lot on your plate, but saying that isn't really a helpful thing because (in my mind) some people will think: I'm so much better not dealing with [group of people] here.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby CamelKnackRambleHort » 15 Jun 2016, 16:50

I disagree Elomin Sha.

It is not rude after a tragedy while under stress to express the desire to only be among those who understand for a time. Retreating to safety temporarily when you need to is not wrong. Because you know what? Sometimes people are better off not dealing with a group of people temporarily. Sometimes people need to be in a place of familiarity, comfort, and emotional safety so they can recharge. And that is ok.

If a religious friend needed a day or two not seeing me because I am an openly trans woman and they are dealing with things I am fine with that. Sometimes people need space and it isn't rude to express that need.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby JustAName » 16 Jun 2016, 01:33

Also by kicking up a fuss you're proving their words true. Being around straight cis people IS taxing, in part because of what you're doing when they just want some calm.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 16 Jun 2016, 02:22

I do get discouraged from coming to this forum when discussions get a bit heated.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Elomin Sha » 16 Jun 2016, 03:18

This isn't heated at all. In the old days there were actual discussions where people talked.
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