This thread is so gay

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Merrymaker_Mortalis
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 10 Sep 2014, 11:11

AdmiralMemo wrote:If you're going in trying to find a "God wants you to be happy with [X]" verse, you will likely not find it.


I agree with you. God is a parent. God loves us unconditionally. (if one chooses to believe it. I find it hard to work out what wording to use to explain what I mean to people who disagree with this belief. If I offend anyone by inadvertently badgering over the head of your with CHRISTIAN, I apologise).
The way I think of it in very simplistic way is with me and my pet cat. I love my cat. Sometimes she murders little animals. This hurts me. It makes me sad. But I still love her regardless of this darkness. It's part of her. She's a cat. I understand why she does it. It still upsets me, but I love her unconditionally.
I will do things that she won't like for the betterment of herself. Visit the vet. Not be fed until the appropriate time. Forbid her to be on certain places etc.

I just don't see any logical reason why homosexualty would be considered a sin. Especially with an overpopulated Earth, forcing someone to procreate with someone they cannot ever love to bring another child in the world may not be a good thing.
-
Now onto topic.

I have a good friend.
A good male friend.
Someone who I consider a brother.
He is very open with his affections for me.
I find it challenging due to British social norms (he's Spanish) and the fact I am physically attracted to men.
My mind is having difficulty understanding that I am having deep feelings that are not sexual at all for someone of the same gender as me for once. So I am very reluctant to be as open emotionally. I am open factually about myself and emotionally about things other than him. But I have it difficult to express how I feel about it.
For every "... love <his name>. God Bless. Big hugs", I reply "I hope you are well. Take care" etc. Probably being very new (like a few weeks) to having this intensive faith is another reason why it's difficult for me to express how I sincerely feel.

Yay, Britishness. Yay society's expectations.

But it's nice to not actually have any hatred in my heart anymore.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby AdmiralMemo » 10 Sep 2014, 11:54

Master Gunner wrote:
AdmiralMemo wrote:
Master Gunner wrote:*Going to church 1-2 months after giving birth (*cough*Baptisms*cough*)
I don't even understand what you're getting at here?
Children are generally baptized within a few days or weeks of giving birth (it used to be a rather immediate priority due to high infant death rates, less so now), which typically requires the presence of the mother in a church.
Ah yes, so infant baptism, something I do not believe in.
Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:The way I think of it in very simplistic way is with me and my pet cat. I love my cat. Sometimes she murders little animals. This hurts me. It makes me sad. But I still love her regardless of this darkness. It's part of her. She's a cat. I understand why she does it. It still upsets me, but I love her unconditionally.
I will do things that she won't like for the betterment of herself. Visit the vet. Not be fed until the appropriate time. Forbid her to be on certain places etc.

I just don't see any logical reason why homosexuality would be considered a sin. Especially with an overpopulated Earth, forcing someone to procreate with someone they cannot ever love to bring another child in the world may not be a good thing.
While I am not to trying to change your mind with my next argument, I am trying to offer perspective, since these two paragraphs seem to conflict in a logical sense.

Alright, do you know more than your cat? Do you understand things that your cat does not? Do you know and understand things that your cat cannot? I would say yes. You forbid your cat to do certain things. They are, from your point of view, better for the cat. But consider the cat's position in this. Does your cat understand why you are doing these things? Does it make logical sense to your cat why she should go to the vet, or shouldn't kill small creatures, or not be fed at certain times and be fed at other times? Probably not.

So take that to the situation between you and God. In this instance, you're the cat. You don't see any logical reason why God might forbid something or allow something else, any more than your cat can see any logical reason why killing small creatures is bad and going to the vet is good. However, if you consider God to be a higher being than yourself, with more knowledge and understanding than you could ever have in this life, can't you conceive that He might have a logical reason for things that make no sense to us, simply due to the fact that He has more knowledge, a higher perspective, etc.?

Now, what you believe is a personal thing, and you have to hash out your faith with God, not with us. Whether you believe He wants one thing or another is something to work out for yourself with Him. But at least go into the relationship with the understanding that He may know and understand things that not only we do not, but that we are actually incapable of knowing and understanding.

Note: Apologies to anyone who thinks this got long and/or off-topic. When you get me into armchair logician or armchair theologian modes, I tend to go long. However, barring any misunderstandings of what I mean, this is likely my final post on this topic in this thread at this time.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby AlexanderDitto » 10 Sep 2014, 14:14

AdmiralMemo wrote:Now, what you believe is a personal thing, and you have to hash out your faith with God, not with us. Whether you believe He wants one thing or another is something to work out for yourself with Him. But at least go into the relationship with the understanding that He may know and understand things that not only we do not, but that we are actually incapable of knowing and understanding.


Emphasis added, because it raises a question: how do you propose someone is to divine what God wants from them?
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby cuddlyblade » 10 Sep 2014, 14:25

AlexanderDitto wrote: how do you propose someone is to divine what God wants from them?


That's pretty easy. You starve yourself, go to a mountain cave, pray, chew hallucinogens to prevent yourself from feeling hungry and have vision from god. Simple no?
Trust me, I'm a scientist.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Elomin Sha » 10 Sep 2014, 14:28

Or consider Gods are more than likely not real so you don't have to do anything.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby JustAName » 10 Sep 2014, 14:43

Don't you guys dare shut down this thread. If you want to continue this, go see if that religion thread we once had got locked, and if not, go in there. Otherwise, I guess make a new one and pray (yes, yes) that you can prevent that from happening again.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby AdmiralMemo » 10 Sep 2014, 15:54

1. A second apology, if the first one went unheard.
2. I was unaware that such a thread existed in my 4 years of being here, nor that one was even desired or warranted. That's why I relegated myself to simply discussing it in other threads as the topics intersected.
3. I will continue this discussion in either that necroed thread (if I can find it) or a new one, if that one got locked.

However, you had to have expected the topic to have come up at some point, if it didn't already in the past 246 pages. You've got someone who was wondering what a religious text (the Bible) said about sexuality, since she hadn't read it, and you had another person who had recently been affected by spirituality, and, I suspect, is trying to go through the impact it has on all aspects of his life, sexual and otherwise.
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LRRcast wrote:Paul: That does not answer that question at all.
James: Who cares about that question? That's a good answer.

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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby JustAName » 10 Sep 2014, 16:23

Yes, and that's all fine, but when you start debating - and as much as I care both for you and Merry, you can both be blunt or phrase things occasionally poorly - things are almost always going to end badly. Sorry to react so precipitously, I just really care about this thread.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Duckay » 10 Sep 2014, 16:26

Also someone please correct me if I'm wrong but if you've been wanting to make a thread about religion for some time, don't let the fact that no one else has made one stop you. By all means make a thread.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby AdmiralMemo » 10 Sep 2014, 16:32

I didn't want to create one, only to be shouted down as WRONG! for bringing up something that might have been bad history from before I got here that I was unaware of. Also, I didn't know if I would simply be talking into an echo chamber with it.
Graham wrote:The point is: Nyeh nyeh nyeh. I'm an old man.
LRRcast wrote:Paul: That does not answer that question at all.
James: Who cares about that question? That's a good answer.

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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby AlexanderDitto » 10 Sep 2014, 19:36

Since that discussion will be moving to another thread, something more relevant:

My boyfriend now lives in Philadelphia.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby JustAName » 10 Sep 2014, 20:16

Wooo!
Alja-Markir wrote:Andy is the LRR Heart-throb.
Morgan is the LRR Crotch-throb.


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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby CiderMuffin » 10 Sep 2014, 20:40

AlexanderDitto wrote:Since that discussion will be moving to another thread, something more relevant:

My boyfriend now lives in Philadelphia.


Shove some cheesesteaks in him.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 10 Sep 2014, 23:30

Yay

(and now to two month hiatus from the thread again)
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Avistew » 11 Sep 2014, 17:42

This is unrelated to GSMs but Memo, I just realised your avatar is a nun (or however it's spelled). Why is that?

Oh, actually I guess I do have something to contribute. I've been writing a story, to eventually be a webcomic. I've already written a bunch of stuff as notes, but I could probably use some real-life anecdotes, I guess? One of the main characters is gay, and he's 15. He's not out when the story starts but works up the courage to tell his sister, who is very religious (and he worries she's also homophobic although he doesn't really have a reason to believe that). Her reaction is somewhere between "makes sense" and "so what".

However he realises it was so much effort to come out to her (he already came out in passing to someone else who is a friend of his, but also an alien unlikely to out him. Otherwise he didn't come out to anyone else) that he decides he might as well do it all at once. He goes to school trying to "look" as gay as possible, with rainbow themes and the like (and gets immediately bullied but also receives a lot of support).

Do you guys think that would be a realistic storyline? I realise it depends on the characters' personalities of course... I'm mostly struggling with how he'd choose to out himself to the whole school. Is there anything anyone here, as a gay guy, as used to kind of signal to others they were gay? Or when in the closet, is there anything you avoided on purpose because you thought it would be a hint?

I'm aware that short of wearing a T-shirt saying "I'm gay" (which I could totally see him do, to be honest) there isn't really an outfit that is "gay" in itself, but I know there are stereotypes. Unfortunately I'm not so familiar with them so help on that would be good.

I could live without the advice (especially since the storyline isn't going to be right at the start) but this could prevent a 2 month hiatus.

Other question... it's about erasure. I might be using the wrong word. What I mean is, I don't want to write a story that isn't diverse. But while I knew from the start this character is gay, well he's also in the closet and not really aware himself at the point the story start. I don't want to contribute to erasure by having a character who, for some time, is gay but without anything showing for it, but I'm not sure how to address it until he starts realizing it for himself. Just not showing him attracted to girls isn't going to mean much (especially considering there is also an asexual character). Basically I don't want the characters to know about it, but I want the readers to either know outright or at least be able to suspect it to be the case.

Any suggestions?
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Volafortis » 11 Sep 2014, 18:25

Tell what the story needs to tell; with a well-conceived character, I find they tend to define themselves in your head, and you should let them do what they want to do, not force them to do what you want them to do.

Look at how other writers have portrayed closeted characters. Ask yourself; is this offensive? Are they doing it right? If you don't feel you can make that call accurately, ask someone that you feel can. Looking into the works of gay writers can help here immensely.

Obviously, don't rip the characterization they use, but simply see what they did; how they added the deft touch required to respectfully show someone who is closeted.

I can certainly appreciate wanting to avoid the "Here is a character ....aaaaand now they're gay." kind of situation, and if you haven't lived that experience, all I can say is that it's best to learn from those who have.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby AdmiralMemo » 11 Sep 2014, 18:58

Regarding the avatar, since this is not the religion thread, and I was told to cut it out, I'll just leave it at the fact that it's from the "We are N" campaign.

Regarding your story, it certainly seems realistic. El Goonish Shive is having Justin go through a similar story-line regarding "signals." While he's "out" to most of the town, there's a new guy that he suspects is gay and suspects likes him, but he doesn't want to chase the guy off if he's not gay, and doesn't know if the guy knows he's gay or not. So, he decides to put on his old earring, which is his "gay signal." Link to the start (Warning: There are at least 4 other story-lines also going on at the same time, so you might have to jump some comics in between to get to the Justin story.)

This particular comic is especially amusing.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby AlexanderDitto » 14 Sep 2014, 20:24

CiderMuffin wrote:
AlexanderDitto wrote:Since that discussion will be moving to another thread, something more relevant:

My boyfriend now lives in Philadelphia.


Shove some cheesesteaks in him.


This made me laugh.

I think he wants to have a cheesesteak but I keep telling him no one who lives here actually eats cheesesteaks. Well, no more than usual I mean. Also the touristy places sell really bad cheesesteaks.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby AlexanderDitto » 18 Sep 2014, 20:34

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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Avistew » 18 Sep 2014, 23:27

...what's a cheesesteak?

I love EGS and I'm aware of the Justin storyline. Although, while Luke seems perfectly nice, I'm feeling bad for George.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby AdmiralMemo » 19 Sep 2014, 10:21

Avistew wrote:...what's a cheesesteak?
A food that is as synonymous with Philadelphia as lobsters are with Maine.
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Graham wrote:The point is: Nyeh nyeh nyeh. I'm an old man.
LRRcast wrote:Paul: That does not answer that question at all.
James: Who cares about that question? That's a good answer.

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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 19 Sep 2014, 13:27

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-29279879

(I'd put that as a proper URL, but I'm doing this on an iPad so my editing power is a bit limited)

I rather like the comment about his qualifications as a religious leader
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Deedles » 19 Sep 2014, 13:33

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That article made my day!
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Avistew » 20 Sep 2014, 15:25

AdmiralMemo wrote:
Avistew wrote:...what's a cheesesteak?
A food that is as synonymous with Philadelphia as lobsters are with Maine.


Looks like a beef sandwich to me. I have to say I was expecting a steak made of cheese, or something along those lines. I am a bit disappointed.

About the article, awesome. But that quote

When asked about his qualifications as a religious leader he said: "I have a PhD in Islamic studies from Oxford University, unlike my opponents who went to some donkey college in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia."


Seemed kind of out of line to me. I mean, it sounded racist. "I went to university in Britain, not Pakistan or Saudi Arabia! That makes me better! Also, a high diploma must mean I'm more qualified because diplomas are everything and better than experience!".

I really didn't like that. But I understand being annoyed at opponents who seem pretty bigoted in a very obtuse way.
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Re: This thread is so gay

Postby Tycherin » 20 Sep 2014, 21:12

I just really like the phrase "donkey college," completely regardless of context.

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