What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby korvys » 07 Sep 2014, 03:21

I'm just going to throw this in here, cause I thought it was hilarious.

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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby JackSlack » 07 Sep 2014, 03:42

Sent to The Escapist.

Hi Escapist,

I am writing to announce that I have cancelled my PubClub subscription and am blacklisting The Escapist from my browser. I'm deeply disappointed in the direction this website has taken; taking what is essentially a 4chan press release as gospel and ignoring the harassment and attacks that have been heaped upon the people they seek to destroy.

The Escapist used to be a haven for progressive content, the chance for gaming to grow and improve and become something better. I'm sad to see you siding with those who would want it to shrink, regress, and become more exclusive rather than inclusive.

Regards,
Sean.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Ptangmatik » 07 Sep 2014, 04:38

Macris' attitude and behaviour makes me wonder what role he had in the old extra credits shenanigans.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Master Gunner » 07 Sep 2014, 08:42

Only reason I was going to The Escapist regularly was for Feed Dump anyways, and now LRR's gotten better at putting it on YouTube. So PubClub is now cancelled, and I will send them a message shortly (probably just copy+pasting JackSlack's).
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Deedles » 07 Sep 2014, 11:05

I still watch Jimquisition and The Big Picture on The Escapist, and I was quite happy to find out from Jim's latest episode that he and Moviebob have been listed as people to avoid on the Escapist by GamerGate bigots.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby empath » 07 Sep 2014, 12:02

Really? I think that condemnation might be the very thing that makes me finally start following Mr. Sterling...

In all honesty, I've only ever looked upon 'the E' as the venue for some video series I was interested in; I only ever look at their 'news' when someone here links it, and as for their forums? Um, I'd rather go back to /b/ - at least there there's a higher user population and the toxic element is more diluted (and thus more easily avoided).
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Deedles » 07 Sep 2014, 12:35

I really didn't like Jim Sterling when he first released Jimquisition(I thought he was a sexist bigot), but since then he's really matured, and has mentioned how much of an asshole he was back then, and how much he regrets it. Sure, he still has the self-important act, the 'Thank God for me' at the end and such, but that's just it, it's an act for entertainment. I actually find a lot of the things he says quite reasonable and well put(even if harsh at times, but then, that's also for entertainment), even if I feel that he can get too hung up on things from time to time.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby JackSlack » 07 Sep 2014, 14:02

I like Jim Sterling; he's grown into a really interesting demagogue. I mean, he's still a demagogue and I think he'd be the first to admit it, but he's got fascinating mixes of social justice, consumer advocacy (and THAT is priceless; we need way more of that in gaming) and a bunch of other leanings in there.

I'll also miss Moviebob's "The Big Picture" and to a lesser extent, "Escape to the Movies".

But yeah, I'm still done.

And since I've danced around it enough, yes. I'm hoping that these people will consider leaving The Escapist over this. I know it's not an easy decision; there's money involved and hell, for Moviebob I think it's basically ALL his money. But still. Macris has done something quite vile here.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Deedles » 07 Sep 2014, 14:23

To be fair, if those people left it wouldn't be unthinkable to start their own site, but since I've never done anything of the sort(and thus am as educate don the manner as a badger) that's pretty much as far as I can take that theory - 'not unthinkable'.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby JackSlack » 07 Sep 2014, 14:27

On another note? Greg Costikyan (Toon, Paranoia, a ton of other stuff) went on a glorious rant that was, for some reason, deleted. But Google sees everything.

With the exception of the third last paragraph (which is mostly to set up the joke in the second last one, so I accept it's tongue in cheek) I have nothing to disagree with in that column at all.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Deedles » 07 Sep 2014, 14:44

I'll join him for that duel. *goes to get her sword ready*
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Lord Hosk » 07 Sep 2014, 16:04

OK, caught back up.

That was a lot of stuff.

I am disappointed that a person of importance at the escapist has been making what I consider to be bad choices.

I watch Escape to the Movies, The Big Picture, Jimquisition and Feed Dump. I am very much opposed to ad blockers, but I installed one to watch those 4 shows. I have sent Jim a gift, will continue to support LRR here, and would love to get in contact with Bob to send him a periodic thank you for his work. Unless something changes I will be "taking" the content from the escapist which I dont feel good about but when it comes to walled off content this is the choice I made. I hate being put into poopy situations because of the large scope of business. I recognize that all that content couldnt exist without the escapist pooling things to create a larger audience but I still dont like it.

As for things slipping since Susan Arendt left, I disagree. Things were slipping when Russ Pitts was in charge of things, they continued to slip when Susan was in charge, and have really soured since then. I dont have any advice as to what could make it better but the more new stuff they create the less I am interested in. I watch those 3 creators, 4 shows and occasionally will read something they write, or watch the which one is better show if the topic seems good, those guys seem nice but I dont like the me vrs you foundation of the show, I do like that most of the time when im interested they leave it at a 2-2 or 3-3 tie.

I also dont like sites that have that stupid set of 6 clearly click bait articles at the bottom "top 10 foods you should be eating more of" "what is this celebrity doing now?"...

The escapist is more advertisement than content now, twisted and evil.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Arclight_Dynamo » 07 Sep 2014, 16:08

With regard to MovieBob, he embeds both his video series on his personal blog. He runs ads there, which I imagine pay to him directly. If you're going to watch his stuff and block The Escapist's ads anyway, you may want to consider watching them over at his site. That way, he at least gets some ad revenue.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Dubious_wolf » 07 Sep 2014, 16:16

what if....
what if LRR somehow.... Started their own video site. They could essentially expand their current video production house style into a more encompassing entertainment platform.....
just a weird thought.
I'd really miss Zero Punctuation though and Jim Sterlings videos.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby korvys » 07 Sep 2014, 16:20

Wolf, some of the videos LRR create (specifically Unskippable) are made for The Escapist, and presumably can't be moved.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby JackSlack » 07 Sep 2014, 16:50

Going down the list...

  • LoadingReadyRun: Definitely lose Unskippable, but otherwise I think they own all their properties. They'd lose audience and revenue, however, unquestionably.
  • Jim Sterling: The Jimquisition is his biggest video series, but it's not like it's much more than him standing around and yacking. He could do that anywhere. Unsure on how Movie Defence Force stands, and he'd certainly lose the Yahtzee collaboration stuff.
  • Yahtzee: As I understand it, Zero Punctuation belongs to the Escapist now? I can't see him going; it's his meal ticket. Maybe he's sick of it after all this time, that's the only way I could see him leaving. He's stayed very neutral in it all.
  • Moviebob: He stands to, as far as I can see, lose the most either way. He's caught: If the Escapist swings further to the #gamergate folks, he's dead in the water, being persona non grata with them. On the other hand, all his biggest stuff is with them.
  • Critical Miss: Belongs to the Escapist, I'm pretty sure. On the other hand, I kind of get the feeling Gray Carter, at least, is sick of it by this point. And he's certainly been incredibly antagonistic to #gamergate, yet weirdly doesn't seem to have the hatedom of Bob. No idea why.

Look, I think the end result is none will leave. I'm sad about that, but a paycheque is a paycheque. I think of all of them, it's Bob who probably has the most to gain by leaving, as I think he's in a dead end scenario now by staying. But I could well be wrong.

I won't judge people for staying. The bills, they gots to be paid. I will celebrate them leaving, though.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Avistew » 07 Sep 2014, 17:54

I haven't gone to the Escapist in years. I do miss some of the shows, but with everything going on I don't have much incentive to go back and watch them more.

I know I'm a bit late but I do want to comment on Valkyrie-Lemon's post:

Valkyrie-Lemons wrote:It's kinda creepy that you'd actually comment that a women was showing slightly more breast than usual. Not that you could see them, the fact it's more than usual. Since y'know, women are not all about the breasts, although I get the feeling for some of those people, it's perhaps the most intimate thing they're ever going to see in a respectable woman.


Now, many people have already pointed out the issue with "respectable woman" being used for someone who doesn't show skin, which excludes models, naturists, actors including porn actors, women interesting in one-night-stands who have no reason to know the guy they're having sex with is an asshole (or care, really, if they'll never see him again) and so on.

But I want to comment on the other part of that quote I found a problem with: the idea that those guys won't see women naked, and the fact that this was used as an insult.

The first problem with this is that it's going from that disgusting concept that sex is a reward given by women to nice people, rather than something women might want to, or something women may refuse even to nice people. "If they're jerks, they're not getting sex" or "they're jerks because they're not getting sex" are both problematic statements and both common ones to see.

Lots of guys who don't have sex don't become jerks, whether they actually want to have sex or not. There is nothing wrong with guys who don't have sex, whether they would want to or not. The whole "those loser probably don't know what a breast look like" is more insulting to men who don't have sex and are perfectly decent people, and more insulting to women than it is to jerks.

Basically, instead of judging them for being bad people, you're judging women who happen to have sex with them, or to be seen naked by them. Of course, the topic was about cleavage so really you're insulting women who are wearing clothes at all revealing. You did say it wasn't about showing cleavage but showing "more than usual" as in "breasts being covered by two layers instead of the usual three" if I've followed the whole thing. And then you say they probably haven't seen that much, and because that's a completely absurd claim (you see as much in ads for breakfast cereal) you qualify it with "in a respectable woman" which as we saw was a very bad move on your part.

If these people are assholes, insult them by saying they aren't respectable, not by saying that women who are willing to have sex with them (as your subsequent posts seem to clarify as what you meant) aren't respectable.

This is a problem. This is part of the whole "women are insulted directly, but to insult men, you insult their mother or girlfriend". Just insult the men themselves. And if at all possible, do so without insulting decent men. There is nothing wrong with never having seen a breast in person, even for a straight sexual guy. They're not losers, nor are they owed it because they're good people. It just happens.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Deedles » 07 Sep 2014, 18:00

I find the easiest and least problematic way to insult a person is by actually pointing out what you think they did wrong(which I don't always even consider an insult, but simply giving them a harsh talking to). Posting lude comments about how Kathleen had more cleavage showing? Tell them that they're being creepy, rude and, not to mention indecent, when discussing the cleavage of a woman that they don't know in a disrespectful manner. Voila. So much better when you take it to the source.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Duckay » 07 Sep 2014, 18:11

I'm really glad you said that, Avistew, because I for one got really focused on the "respectable women" thing (which I do stand by), when you are correct, more than that should have been addressed.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Matt » 07 Sep 2014, 18:22

And we have now hit both sides of my original call-out: phrasing: "respectable women" and intent " virgin-shaming / slut-shaming twofer."

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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Jamfalcon » 07 Sep 2014, 18:41

JackSlack wrote:Going down the list...

It's worth noting that video isn't the only thing Jim does for the Escapist. He's also the reviews editor, and while it's technically freelance from what he's said on Twitter, he's more or less a part of their core staff now, and The Escapist almost certainly is his primary source of income.

Regarding Grey Carter, I think the lack of backlash against him is in part just a case of lower profile. Individual Critical Miss strips certainly do get shared around a lot, but he never seems to have made any major foothold as a key personality in the gaming sphere.

Moviebob probably could leave and still maintain a following decently enough, and I suppose if LRR decided to do another Kickstarter for something in the new year it wouldn't be the biggest shock if they did, but I do agree that it seems unlikely to affect the content creators in a major way.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby JustAName » 07 Sep 2014, 19:06

Avistew, please never stop posting. <3
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Valkyrie-Lemons » 08 Sep 2014, 01:07

I don't really want to get into another long discussion about this (mainly because I'm about to go away for a while), but there's just something things I need to address.

Avistew wrote:The first problem with this is that it's going from that disgusting concept that sex is a reward given by women to nice people, rather than something women might want to, or something women may refuse even to nice people. "If they're jerks, they're not getting sex" or "they're jerks because they're not getting sex" are both problematic statements and both common ones to see.


Okay, my first problem. I never said that. You're suggesting I said something that I didn't. I'm pretty sure in all the prior posts I did not once suggest that sex is a reward for nice guys.

Avistew wrote:Lots of guys who don't have sex don't become jerks, whether they actually want to have sex or not. There is nothing wrong with guys who don't have sex, whether they would want to or not. The whole "those loser probably don't know what a breast look like" is more insulting to men who don't have sex and are perfectly decent people, and more insulting to women than it is to jerks.


Yet again, I did not say this. And FYI, I'm one of those people, I've never even kissed a girl. I'm pretty sure I was insulting (admittedly maybe in a generalised, and harsh way) misogynists who never had sex.

Avistew wrote:Basically, instead of judging them for being bad people, you're judging women who happen to have sex with them, or to be seen naked by them. Of course, the topic was about cleavage so really you're insulting women who are wearing clothes at all revealing. You did say it wasn't about showing cleavage but showing "more than usual" as in "breasts being covered by two layers instead of the usual three" if I've followed the whole thing. And then you say they probably haven't seen that much, and because that's a completely absurd claim (you see as much in ads for breakfast cereal) you qualify it with "in a respectable woman" which as we saw was a very bad move on your part.


Yet again, I did not say that. I'm pretty sure I didn't say in my previous posts that women wearing revealing clothing is bad. I'm pretty sure I implied that the guys who make a big fuss about women wearing slightly more revealing clothing are the ones in the wrong.

Avistew wrote:If these people are assholes, insult them by saying they aren't respectable, not by saying that women who are willing to have sex with them (as your subsequent posts seem to clarify as what you meant) aren't respectable.


Honest question.

If you were at a party and saw (in your terms) a very attractive guy who was clearly being misogynistic, would you want anything to do with them? If your friend, or someone you knew, then started to hang around them, would you say anything to them? If you did and they didn't care about their misogyny, would you just walk away and not think anything differently about them?


Okay, let's put in a different example of this. If I was friends with someone who was clearly misogynistic, and you came up to me and ask me why I hung around with him despite being such a misogynist and my reply was along the lines of "I know he's a misogynist, but we both really like football, so I ignore what he says," what would your attitude be towards me?


And this is what I'm trying to say. The misogynist is always to blame for his views, but aren't the people around him who know of his misogyny, but don't actively challenge him about it, also partly to blame? And if you agree with that, you can't exclude women from the blame.


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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby JayBlanc » 09 Sep 2014, 02:57

Welp. After reading the Publisher and Editor statements on the Escapist, my conclusion is that they seem to think that the whole problem was caused by those 'Casual gaming scrubs' not the 'Real Gamers', and the 'Real Gamer Community Is Still Supreme". And how dare people say 'Gamers' is a fragmenting culture, they *will* maintain the One True Path of the Video Game Enthusiast. Also... Apparently, The Esapist was now founded solely by Macris, to promote the idea of Video Games as The Most Important Art Form Of Modern Times.

I really take issue with Macris's division of Gamers and People-who-just-play-games as a division between those who play the right kind of games and those who do not. The suggestion that someone who plays "Real video games" like COD is more of a "gamer" than someone who plays "Casual" Indie exploration games. (He literally compares people who play 'Real' video games to Sports Car owners, and people who play 'Casual' games to Volvo owners.)
Last edited by JayBlanc on 09 Sep 2014, 04:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is Adam Baldwin thinking?

Postby Deedles » 09 Sep 2014, 04:30

Cross-posting in this and the feminist thread.

Link - WHY WE’RE WINNING: SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS AND THE NEW CULTURE WAR

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