Tales of Troubles

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Tales of Troubles

Postby Paul » 28 Jan 2014, 11:38

Bamco-Nandai has taken something great, then made it awful and butt.
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Re: Tales of Troubles

Postby Master Gunner » 28 Jan 2014, 19:42

If anybody is curious about the EVE battle that was mentioned in the aftershow, the battle is over now, and the damage total looks to be ~$300,000. Haven't been able to track down how long it lasted, but it seems to be in the ~12 hour range, as people in different timezones came online and entered the battle. The group that forgot to pay their rent won.

If anyone is curious, I've prepared brief explanations for WTF happened in the game, and what that $300,000 figure actually means (no, people did not collectively pay $300 grand in real money that was lost in this battle). I've never actually played Eve, so this is just my summary of events based on what I've heard.

1. WTF Happened?
Two large player coalitions have been at war in Eve since October, CFC/RUS and PL/NCDOT/N3. N3/PL controlled the system B-R5RB and the space station within, which they used as a staging ground for their fleets due to its strategic location. However, on Monday N3 forgot to pay rent to the NPC organization that owns the station (this is largely just a formality and a money sink, as NPCs have little power outside of the "high-security" controlled systems), causing them to lose control of the system. Seeing this, CFC/RUS moved in to claim the system as their own. Seeing how many of their assets PL/N3 had in their system, it was of utmost importance to regain control of the system beyond just the strategic value of the system itself. For CFC/RUS, denying those assets to PL/N3 as well as gaining the system would be a critical victory. So that sets the scene for why the battle got so large.

As for just how large it was...most pictures of the battle let you see a couple dozen large ships, but here is an image highlighting all of the smaller ships. That image also includes AI drones that are launched by player carriers and the like, but it gives you an idea as to how many people is involved. I've read that over 2000 people participated in that battle.

In the end, PL/N3 managed to open a hole in the CFC/RUS fleet, and were able to press their advantage to retake the system. The final tally for Titans lost (the largest ships in the game) stood at 59 CFC/RUS versus 16 N3/PL, accounting for most of the monetary losses sustained in the battle.

2. $300,000!?
So where did that $300,000 number come from and what does it mean? Well there are a few things about Eve's economy that are important. First and foremost, monthly subscriptions purchased for Eve actually come in the form of an in-game item called PLEX (Pilot License EXtensions), which can be traded by the players for in-game currency and goods (or outright destroyed by particularly vindictive pirates). PLEX can thus be used to establish an exchange rate between USD and ISK, the in-game currency. So at the current rate of 30 Days = 1 Plex = 667,750,000 ISK = 19.95 USD, the battle cost around 10 Trillion ISK, which would have largely being earned entirely in-game, representing 450,000 days of work (averaging over 200 days per participant in the battle).

The next thing to keep in mind is that when your ship is destroyed in Eve, it is gone, and you have to buy a new one (or switch to a spare). So that actually is a lot of effort put into the game that was lost in that battle (though large ships, such as the Titans, are typically built by player corporations rather than individual players, and will be replaced quickly enough).

The third thing is that the economy of Eve is almost entirely player-run, and operates essentially the same as any real-world capitalist economy. Players mine asteroids for materials, which are then crafted into ships and equipment which are bought and sold between players (essentially all ships and equipment other than starter sets and uber-rares are player-made) while some players and corporations (Eve guilds, essentially) offer services as well, including player-run banks. CCP, the developers, act as a central banking authority by releasing patches to adjust ore drop rates and the like to stabilize the economy, though they (at least publicly) are very hands-off.

The combined result is that the battle is going to have a prolonged effect on the EVE universe over the next few weeks as people rebuild. Here is a chart captured during the battle, showing how much the price of a railgun increased as people were re-equipping ships to get back into the fray after being destroyed (and here's an explanation of the chart).
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Re: Tales of Troubles

Postby Clypheous » 29 Jan 2014, 07:17

EVE Online has some absolutely crazy battles. That's a great explanation there Gunner. Makes me almost want to play the game again. I don't think I've logged in to the game since 2010 or something, I imagine a lot has changed. Or maybe not. Who knows.
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Re: Tales of Troubles

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 29 Jan 2014, 13:09

I heard about this, and reached the conclusion that if mankind fought all its wars in Eve Online it would be a) incredibly bizarre, b) surprisingly realistic and c) endlessly hilarious.
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Re: Tales of Troubles

Postby Dutch guy » 29 Jan 2014, 14:22

Though the checkpoint itself was already good for a chuckle, the stinger "how easy it is to kill an astronaut of you don't double check your maths" had me in stitches.
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Re: Tales of Troubles

Postby Flewellyn » 29 Jan 2014, 19:30

Dutch guy wrote:Though the checkpoint itself was already good for a chuckle, the stinger "how easy it is to kill an astronaut of you don't double check your maths" had me in stitches.


Indeed! And KSP does a good job of making it SUPER easy. I don't know how many times I've blown up poor Jebediah Kerman...a lot, I think.

Also, the live Checkpoints are getting much more polished and natural! Good job!
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Re: Tales of Troubles

Postby varmintx » 30 Jan 2014, 12:18

Dutch guy wrote:Though the checkpoint itself was already good for a chuckle, the stinger "how easy it is to kill an astronaut of you don't double check your maths" had me in stitches.
I am reminded of Apollo 13 where all the brilliant minds forgot that they weren't bringing back any moon rocks causing all of their calculations to be wrong.
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Re: Tales of Troubles

Postby Yaxley » 31 Jan 2014, 13:51

Thanks for that explanation, Gunner. Helps to put it in context.
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Re: Tales of Troubles

Postby TheMoatman » 04 Feb 2014, 07:35

Master Gunner wrote:In the end, PL/N3 managed to open a hole in the CFC/RUS fleet, and were able to press their advantage to retake the system. The final tally for Titans lost (the largest ships in the game) stood at 59 CFC/RUS versus 16 N3/PL, accounting for most of the monetary losses sustained in the battle.

Where'd you get that info? To the best of my knowledge, PL lost the station, and it was the N3 alliance who lost the 60 titans.
One of PL's fleet commanders even said they'd retake the lost system if they could.
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Re: Tales of Troubles

Postby Master Gunner » 04 Feb 2014, 08:43

I may have gotten the names backwards. It was late when I wrote that.

I actually think I had written it the other way around at first, double-checked, then changed it to that.
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