LRRcast for CEX

[James]

Huzzah!

[Noxshade]

Ah, that explains some things. Bradly probably too inspiration from Metroid Prime games for the music when the aliens attack. Specifically the Dark Samus theme is nearly identical to that bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifPn1XCk-tg

[GreigKM]

Yeah! My pageloop.bik comment! It was actually realMYST that used that file, as was pointed out. Still, yeah.

[ThrashJazzAssassin]

Re: the "death" of PC gaming, I think what's happening is that more and more games are being designed with both console and PC in mind, so they're optimised for controller rather than mouse and keyboard. The way console shooters work, and the skills you develop to play them, are quite different from PC shooters, so unless a lot of extra effort is put into the PC version it can feel like a port of a pre-existing console game rather than a game developed for PC.

So it's not that PC gaming is in decline, but that there's no longer a clear divide between console games and PC games, and it makes the most sense for a company to optimise their multi-platform game for PS3 and XBox - two of the available systems - rather than PC - which, despite the variety available, only counts as one.

[Yaxley]

What? 7th Guest on iPad? Done.

Or, purchased anyway. Maybe I'll get to play it in a couple of hours when it finishes downloading.

I still have the sequel, The 11th Hour, on CD, but no matter how much I try to tweak the settings on DOSBox, I just can't get it to render properly. Maybe that will come out for iPad too.

[ANeMzero]

Re: the "death" of PC gaming, I think what's happening is that more and more games are being designed with both console and PC in mind, so they're optimised for controller rather than mouse and keyboard. The way console shooters work, and the skills you develop to play them, are quite different from PC shooters, so unless a lot of extra effort is put into the PC version it can feel like a port of a pre-existing console game rather than a game developed for PC.

So it's not that PC gaming is in decline, but that there's no longer a clear divide between console games and PC games, and it makes the most sense for a company to optimise their multi-platform game for PS3 and XBox - two of the available systems - rather than PC - which, despite the variety available, only counts as one.

There may in fact be some form of decline, but it is a manufactured decline, created by publishers and developers. It is not simply badly ported controls, its things like persistent bugs, reduced content and DRM.

Both Bioshock and Dead Space fell victim to pretty notable bugs on the PC versions. Bioshock with its widescreen issues, and Dead Space had a Vsync bug that added a second worth of mouse lag (and vsync is enabled by default). However in both cases these bugs persisted into the SEQUELS, and in the dead space example (the worse of the two) was never actually fixed in the first game (and may never be fixed in the second, but its too early to tell).

Beyond that there is the fact that PC gaming constantly misses out on DLC.

EA announced Dead Space 2: Severed DLC weeks before the games released, but didn't bother mentioning it would not be available for the PC until the day after release, when everyone had already opened their preorder copies. In addition, none of the bonus content for pre-ordering, or owning the original game was available in the PC version.

Prince of Persia 2008 did not have a proper ending on the PC version because the Ubisoft decided not to release the Epilogue DLC.

The Minervas Den DLC for Bioshock 2 is considered by many to be a love letter to System Shock 2, a PC only release, and yet never actually released on the PC. Initially announced as never coming to the PC, that decision was later reversed.. However, the DLC was released in August, and the PC version announced in October, and since then everything has been quiet. I feel safe in assuming we are back to 'never'. Even if it released next week that would still be a year after the game initially launched.

Now, all of this could be 'justified' in the fact that PC versions are regularly cheaper than console versions.. But there are two problems with that. One is that PC versions do not need to pay licensing fees for their platforms (Which is why they are cheaper) and Two, Publishers have begun raising PC prices to match console prices.

Some people might be okay with getting less content and functionality when it costs less. No one is okay with spending the same amount for an inferior product.

But what do the publishers care, I mean, why introduce a $10 DLC for the PC versions when they can raise the base price $10. Thats a 100% buy-in rate, something they wouldn't get with DLC and much easier to implement.

This is not even getting into DRM.
Assassins Creed 2 was delayed months on the PC so Ubisoft could perfect their Always On DRM. Yes, they claimed it was to "Improve the PC experience" but the game had the same shoddy console-to-pc camera controls of a cheap port, and in addition to that did not even natively support the 360 controller, meaning that the triggers do not work, which makes it even more difficult to even play it the way they obviously want you to play it.
Furthermore the Tutorials had not been updated for the PC version. Where the console versions got a Bright Green A button prompt we got a bright green foot. Being that there is no Green foot button on any keyboard I've ever seen this means you either have to mash buttons until you get the right one or check the keybinds in the menus.. The menus that can not be navigated with a mouse. Neither buttonmashing or keybind checking would be too problematic on their own, but they should not be needed to get past a "PRESS BUTTON TO CONTINUE" tutorial sequence. It completely defeats the purpose.

[ANeMzero]

You know your post is too long when you don't even realize you double posted.

[Cybren]

best two examples of industry shifting to consoles:

Deus Ex -> Invsibile War
Morrowind -> Oblivion


in both cases first person RPG gets a sequel with overly simplified mechanics, the user interface degrades, and equipment options become more limited. Though, I consider this more part of a general trend I call Sequelitus, wherein sequels with more streamlind gameplay tend to lose the charm of the original as the abstraction in the gameplay mechanics increases (See also, Diablo -> Diablo 2, where Diablo characters were primarily Stat defined while Diablo 2 characters had complex talent trees and were primarily Class defined)



and i mean in both Deus Ex and Elder Scrolls, you only really "dislike" the recent game if you were a super hardcore fan of the earlier one.


ALSO: on the subject of Elder Scrolls, you're a bit of a frumph if you choose to get a Bethesda game on a console if the PC option is available to you. 80% of the reason to get a Bethesda game are the awesome mods

[Matt]

best two examples of industry shifting to consoles:

Deus Ex -> Invsibile War
Morrowind -> Oblivion


in both cases first person RPG gets a sequel with overly simplified mechanics, the user interface degrades, and equipment options become more limited. Though, I consider this more part of a general trend I call Sequelitus, wherein sequels with more streamlind gameplay tend to lose the charm of the original as the abstraction in the gameplay mechanics increases (See also, Diablo -> Diablo 2, where Diablo characters were primarily Stat defined while Diablo 2 characters had complex talent trees and were primarily Class defined)



and i mean in both Deus Ex and Elder Scrolls, you only really "dislike" the recent game if you were a super hardcore fan of the earlier one.


ALSO: on the subject of Elder Scrolls, you're a bit of a frumph if you choose to get a Bethesda game on a console if the PC option is available to you. 80% of the reason to get a Bethesda game are the awesome mods

I'd still rather play them on console.

-m

[Metcarfre]

I will say this for PCs - I wish XBL had servers, or 'usergroups' or something similar. I wish I could drop in to a place where people might be playing codblops (one word) and have similar goals & etc. regarding their playtime. Where I could get to know other people, without having to 'friend' them.

[Vigafre]

This is why Xbox needs a platinum service.

[Metcarfre]

I actually don't have a problem with the stereotypical things - racist comments, stuff like that - because the vast, vast, vast majority of players don't even plug in their headset at all, let alone talk. Kind of a let down, really.

[Vigafre]

I don't have a problem. They just need a platinum service for personal servers and other stuff. Voice communication isn't a problem to me (I'm one of those mute people).

[Metcarfre]

Really, they should announce RATE CUTS (YAY!) to Gold - drop it to $40/year regular, say - and introduce Platinum at the previous price point.

And I'm saying I wish I COULD talk to people. In games like Bad Company 2 it would be super useful, "Will someone get that $%^($&$$%%#&%*(^()^)!!! sniper that keeps dropping mortars on us!?!"

[Vigafre]

Totally understandable.

[Jaebird]

Huzzah! A reason to chime in my two cents about the latest LRRcast!

While I agree with Matt about Selina Kyle and Bane, you do need to know that, while Batman Begins drew it's inspiration from Batman: Year One, the Selina Kyle in that book was a prostitute (Frank Miller's No.1 profession for women). While I don't really have any problem with Anne Hathaway being in the role, it does raise one important thought: Please, don't make Selina Kyle a prostitute in the movie, Christopher Nolan. That would just be stupid.

Now, as to the decision about using Bane. I think it's awesome, because I have complete faith in Nolan, and know he won't go the route Schumacher did. The thing about Bane is he's is an intelligent villain, and has deduced who Batman's secret identity is. As for whether the filmmakers will go with the hulking, Venom-using Bane is anyone's guess. Like I said, I have complete faith in Nolan. He is the Jesus Christ of film making, for all I'm concerned.

[GreigKM]

You know, I almost exclusively play games on my PC, just saying, I haven't touched my Xbox in nearly 4 months, and I really only play Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood on my PS3 anymore. Meh, I know PC gaming isn't dead, or anywhere near it, what with Steam being on multiple OSes now, even gaining Steam Play with the PS3, future seems bright.

[Pigmy Wurm]

I am becoming more and more a of a PC gamer, but not in the way most people mean. I'm not that great at FPS games on PC, I mot that big on western RPG's, and I am crap at RTS games. Also my computer is old and dieing and has issues even running games that were new 3 or so years ago. But, the PC is a great platform for a bunch of low budget indie games. Braid, Mine Craft, Super Meat Boy (or almost anything by Edmund McMullan), VVVVVV, Cave Story, and World of Goo are all great games that are also really cheap (and some are even free). While I still think of myself as a console gamer, to be honest I'm really not. I play at least one game on the PC almost every day, even if it is only for a bit, but I might only play a console game once a week or less.

[iamafish]

I play all my games on PC and have certainly noticed something of a shift of focus in more recent games with regard to controls.

the most clear example is Mass Effect. I played both KoTORs and then Mass Effect a few years later. The speech choices were clearly designed in KoTOR for using a mouse or arrows to select the option, whereas in mass effect it was on a circular layout that had things branching off for additional options. this would clearly work well on a console, but got annoying after a while (as many things in that game did).

Another would be Assassin's Creed compared with earlier Ubisoft games like The Sands of Time. Assassin's Creed, what with it's strange way of using as few buttons on the keyboard as possible in different combinations to achieve different actions smacked of a lack of buttons indicative of a console. The Sands of Time clearly had no such restrictions.

PC gaming is not dead (it's just sleeping). It's just not top gun anymore. Games are being designed for controllers, rather than keyboards. Unfortunately this renders RTS games damn hard to play because they don't work well without a keyboard and mouse.

I personally think this is a shame because I think a mouse and keyboard allows for a lot more personalization and generally makes games easier to play. Then again that may just be pc gamer talking

[Vigafre]

Unfortunately this renders RTS games damn hard to play because they don't work well without a keyboard and mouse.

Why would this be the case for RTS games when there are practically none on the consoles? I can only think of two, and one of them is Halo Wars, which didn't have a PC release.

[Graham]

There are tons of RTS game for console, but you never hear about them because they're PC ports and the controls are atrociously translated, so no one plays them.

Ruse, Company of Heroes, Warhammer BattleMarch, Command and Conquer 4, Red Alert... I could go on.

[Vigafre]

Yeah, that's probably the case then. I'm just ignorant, I guess.

[Graham]

They have yet to make an RTS game "work" on console because the level of control the genre requires basically can't be done on console without making the game horrendously slow.

[Vigafre]

Then what do you think about how Halo Wars worked? Not trying to argue, I'm just curious.

For me, it seemed to work out alright, but that's mostly because I'm terrible at controlling RTS games. WarCraft III was a nightmare.

[Graham]

I also suck at RTS games, but I found that while Halo Wars probably had the best console-side controls of an RTS (C&C4 was excellent too) it still felt clunky.