LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Talk about this week's LRRcast and what you'd like to see in future ones.
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Graham
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LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby Graham » 19 Jun 2015, 15:55

On this weeks LRRcast Beej, Cam and Alex sit down and discuss spoilers. Do they ruin a movie or TV show? How do we avoid them? And what's the statute of limitations these days?

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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby JayBlanc » 19 Jun 2015, 17:26

I really want to watch Cameron play "The Stanley Parable" now.
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby Solomon-Kain » 19 Jun 2015, 18:04

Regarding the difference between Spoilers in Sports and TV Shows.

Sports are still live events with a specific date and time where they take place. It is culturally acknowledged that the game is happening NOW, so after NOW ends, if you missed it, that's on you.

TV Shows, especially in the last 10-15 years are no longer time specific events, they are aired whenever the network decides and recorded often and viewed later.
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby El_Spectre » 19 Jun 2015, 20:49

Perhaps the thing with sports is, barring big playoff games, if you missed it and/or someone told you the score... there's probably going to be another one in only a day or two. It's a minor "loss", compared to, say, the death of a favorite character.

On the GOT thing, I've been impressed by how much the book readers have behaved by not giving away big events (Ned, The Red Wedding... stuff that happened in Episode 10...). I assume it's because we recognize the investment in the story by readers/viewers, and don't want to rob someone else of that.
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby Eric the Orange » 20 Jun 2015, 09:56

Well on one end I can understand the "it's your responsibility" thing on the other hand in this the age of social media theirs a lot of things we use social media for and the only real way to avoid some of these things is to remove yourself from social media entirely. So I do think in this age of the internet if you want to talk about stuff you should at least take it to a private or less general place than like Facebook or Twitter. Maybe a forum thread or individual conversation over like texts or IM or something.
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby El_Spectre » 20 Jun 2015, 11:16

Using "social media", forums, etc. is a decision to participate in a large number of group conversations. This is fundamentally opposed to strange (and common, it seems) belief that you shouldn't have to hear/see anything you might not like. It's not really logical to expect to have it both ways.

That said, I make an effort to not spoil for a certain time (for a TV show, maybe a couple of weeks), but it is ultimately about personal responsibility. If I were to tell someone that they can't talk about who Luke Skywalker's father is, because I haven't seen it yet, that's just silly.

(On a side note, when the original movies were re-released to theaters in the late 90s, I saw a group of about ten 8 year olds see The Empire Strikes Back. They were genuinely terrified of Vader, and shocked at his reveal. It was hugely entertaining, and a real reminder who those movies are really targeted at.)
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby the_lone_bard » 20 Jun 2015, 17:37

I still have 20minutes left to watch of this ep, so no spoilers! But, I wanna get this out before my brain in its sleep deprived state forgets it.

Cam got me thinking about something I completely didn't expect, and never would have realized. How could I have ever guessed that would happen, oh right, it's Cam. But, I do wanna mention this since it's really interesting to me now and there's nowhere else for it. We do live in a time where we have access to permanent media, and we can control that media. 200 years ago, you got a thing exactly as the performers of a song/play intended and that was that. But, right now I have a "best of Blind Guardian" according to me playlist in Winamp. When I feel like listening to the album, I will actually grab about half the track from the Nightfall in Middle Earth album, and sort of skip a song here, a story segment there and get what I like to think of as "Essence of Nightfall" rather than listening to the entire album, since I'm still hitting those big story elements. I don't need to listen to The Minstrel, Curse of Feanor, Captured and Face the Truth, I just listen to Nightfall, Blood Tears, Noldor, Mirror Mirror and Time Stands Still and I still get that whole story since I know what I'm cutting, but am only hearing the songs I love from that segment, and skipping a song I'm not a fan of and like, 6 minutes of exposition. That is freaking amazing and something that was completely impossible 100 years ago, even with music it was impossible 50 years ago with a record (Or at least extremely difficult.)

Also, we live in an age of recorded and permanent media. I feel like back in the old days of the early 2000s when most people were on Dial Up or slow as balls DSL, before every man and his dog used uTorrent for the latest ep of GoT and The Walking Dead, if you missed a thing on TV, that's it. Wait 6 months for the box set of that season to be released, or a year or two for it to replay on TV. But now, everything is available at all times. Like, if you live in Australia like me, you HAVE to go download GoT 6 hours after it airs the second EETV dumps it on TPB. 10 years ago, if it aired in America a year before here, that was just how it was, wait a year. The complete change in that is multi-leveled. As the "consumer" you are aware of the fact you can go and watch, read or listen to anything at any time. Some people might not ever touch a torrent and so anytime means next pay day, but still. As someone who's already consumed the product, you're aware that they can go out and watch/read/listen to anything at any time. So if you're like me you might be on Facebook screaming "HOLY SHIT THIS THING IS AMAZING OH MY GOD YES!" you're intensely aware of the fact that, you enjoy that thing, you WANT other people to watch it, and they can, so you shouldn't spoil anything because maybe your recommendation makes them go download the thing when they read it to have a look. I'm curious how that plays off of itself, as the culture changed from "Did you see that thing on TV last night!" to "Broad GoT statement that gives nothing away not even the full extent of my feelings towards it." how much was driven by people like me not wanting to ruin it for their friends, and then people pushing that, getting used to people being more careful not to spoil a thing and then going "HEY, no spoilers! I know 2 years ago I wouldn't have been able to say that, but you've been careful not to give anything away for a year so now that's the norm!" Because now we're rapidly starting to go back to the way it was where you can talk about things right after they happen again. Is that being driven by Tweeters and Facebook making it almost impossible to avoid it without putting the responsibility on the would be consumer, or is it getting back to that point because that's how it was, and for awhile we all wanted our friends to go out and see the amazing things we loved but now that's just not that important anymore. Recommending your friend go watch A show, or a could of shows is one thing, but spending the last 5 years or so avoiding saying anything in detail without them pre-emptively saying "You can spoil it, I'm not gonna watch I don't mind." because we wanted people to see things like we did is a lot of shows we're telling our friends to watch. Is the culture around spoilers reverting to the way it was during TV because we're collectively getting over trying to recommend 30 things to our friends a week and now just being content to say "I like this thing, if they don't wanna go look at it, whatever that's their problem."

Dammit, this is what happens when you let Cameron start talking anywhere I can hear, I wind up thinking.
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby kimiyoribaka » 20 Jun 2015, 23:41

As someone who did actually read the harry potter books (entertaining, but I wouldn't read them again or recommend them to people who don't care), I find the common spoiler of them hilarious. Seriously, that wasn't a very major moment in the series, it was pretty obvious it was going to happen, and the book that occurred after it (it was in the 6th book not the 7th) had far more out of nowhere things that would much more ruin the story to have revealed.

On a different topic, I walked away from the usual suspects thinking they tried too hard and not really feeling like the twist mattered much. Perhaps I'm just weird.
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby Bergie » 21 Jun 2015, 08:18

To the Far Cry 4 "Alternate Ending": As a writer of Tabletop RPG adventures, the "well, they just don't get involved" ending is something that is really common, especially in the Living Arcanis RPG system, and it is one I both love and hate. I love the fact that the writers plan for this, but I hate writing them myself because it really is something of a gut punch to write the "well, I guess they thought my adventure wasn't interesting" ending. The fact that pen and paper RPG's has been doing this for years and video games is only now getting into it amuses me, but it is interesting to see systems converge.
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby the_lone_bard » 21 Jun 2015, 08:26

Try looking at it differently. It's not that they aren't interested in your adventure, it could be that their characters are after bigger fame and glory, or they have no reason to get involved, maybe at that particular point in time the group has just set their sights on one thing and screw anything else on the way. I'm playing a lot of New Vegas right now, and I'm like that. I'll go into the strip in Vegas (I hate that place.) do one mission, then off to wander the wastes for completely unimportant places full of story. I'm lvl 24, still not at the point int he story of choosing a side and have 91 stimpacks. Some people just decide they wanna do this thing now, and who cares if that thing's not what they "should" be doing. I "should" have finished the main story of NV by now, instead I'm currently off exploring for more vaults :D
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby Kyran » 25 Jun 2015, 20:54

I think you covered it in general, but I believe that the oncoming storm of procedurally generated games, even with a distinct ending are the "citizen kane" of gaming. We will truly learn that narrative is based on the observer and the journey is really what matters. It's similar to a sort of optimistic version of nihilistic views.

We're all just stories in the end. Just make it a good one, eh?
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby Dr.Susse » 28 Jun 2015, 14:52

A quick side note on the delay Cam mentioned in sports.
It's funny in Australia that some people watch the Cricket on the television with no sound and then listen to the radio broadcast.

So consequently you hear what happens a second before it plays out on the tv -(Raido waves being quicker than Tv).

It's so famous you can get a broadcast that is delayed by a second so it syncs up...
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby the_lone_bard » 30 Jun 2015, 19:36

So, interesting. BIG X-FILES SPOILERS AHEAD... Maybe.

I decided this morning to download the X-Files since I'm out of things to watch, and I'd rather spend the 25gb on like, 6000000000 episodes of the x-files than anything else. It's weird. One of the opening scenes is of Scully being recruited to the team by a bunch of FBI big wigs... Now, thing is, 2 years ago I briefly lived with a guy obsessed with the show. Like, I know some of the people in that room were either aliums or super soldiers, as is most of hte FBI, but I don't have a clue who or even how many, or any specifics really... After not getting around to it for 2 years, it's basically been reduced to "I know there's some weird shit going on to look out for that the show wont reveal until it goes insane after season 4 or 5."
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby Gap Filler » 04 Jul 2015, 05:58

Addenda to a point made re the previous Spoilercast, nice to see the crew touching on a line I take where if you care that deeply about something the spoilers cease to matter; both in the sense that you'll probably have seen it before getting spoilered and in sense that spoilers won't affect your preexisting emotional attachment.
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Re: LRRcast - Spoilers Part 2

Postby RoboNixon » 05 Jul 2015, 05:08

Really thought provoking. I'm glad they touched on spoilers for videogames as well, ... and I wish there was a right answer. Some games, like say Arkham Asylum, you kind of know how it's going to end. But that game is really more about the fun mechanics of beating up bad guys and becoming Batman. A game like Last of Us hinges on the story, and knowing the end really could affect how you experience that arc. Plus games take longer to get through than a movie or tv show, so what the statute on them? Can there even be one? I personally subscribe to not trying to spoil things for others but also making it my responsibility not to have things spoiled by avoiding potential spoiler sources, which Ian mentioned in the first episode.
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