Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

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Caught 'cheating'?

Yes
6
16%
No
31
84%
 
Total votes: 37
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby theDreamer » 05 Sep 2009, 21:37

I wrote a long argument for this.

I deleted it, because its honestly stupid. I don't want to get into a fight over something as stupid as a digital hat on my home forums.

This kind of thread is like arguing over God, or abortion, or circumcision, or something else touchy.

Only it seems much more emotional from everyone's posts, but I think that could just be me because I'm having an issue distancing myself from it.

There is no real middle ground, one side thinks steam was wrong on some level (I'd have accepted them deleting my hat, just the one I got 'illegally' but not handing out the halos, which I feel are what is causing a huge rift everywhere) and the other side thinks that valve did everything right.

Maybe we could just agree that "It's just a game. A game is meant to be fun. Let's move on. Please."
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby iEatNinjaZ » 05 Sep 2009, 22:43

Well said
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby curbee » 05 Sep 2009, 23:11

Arius wrote:Except for hats.

The program gave an advantage, otherwise there would be no point in using it.

The only advantage it gave was that it was low-resource.

Lavos wrote:^+ the fact you aren't earning them yourself.

You don't earn anything in a completely random system.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Kag » 06 Sep 2009, 00:21

You get hats as you play. Idling is not playing. Gaining hats through idling is cheating the system. QED.

Far more importantly, the idling program explicitly falsifies communication protocols with Steam, which is against the Terms of Service.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Evil Jim » 06 Sep 2009, 12:56

theDreamer wrote:There is no real middle ground, one side thinks steam was wrong on some level (I'd have accepted them deleting my hat, just the one I got 'illegally' but not handing out the halos, which I feel are what is causing a huge rift everywhere) and the other side thinks that valve did everything right.

A little touchy on being caught cheating there, eh?
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Arius » 06 Sep 2009, 13:06

The thing that bothers me the most is the rift. Why is there a rift? Did the people who got halos force you to cheat? Did they do anything at all to the people who cheated? Or are the people who cheated just lashing out at anyone who wasn't punished? Sort of like in elementary school when kids made fun of the kid who got good grades.

People need to grow up, simple as that. Bend over, take it like a man, and stop being a dick to people who actually put in time to play the game.

curbee wrote:
Arius wrote:Except for hats.

The program gave an advantage, otherwise there would be no point in using it.

The only advantage it gave was that it was low-resource.

When one of the resources that is absent is the player...


curbee wrote:
Lavos wrote:^+ the fact you aren't earning them yourself.

You don't earn anything in a completely random system.

A player who spends more time in the game will have more of a chance to get hats than a player who doesn't. A player who is ingame 24/7 for a week with an idling program will have a significant advantage when it comes to collecting said hats.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby curbee » 06 Sep 2009, 15:55

Arius wrote:
curbee wrote:
Arius wrote:Except for hats.

The program gave an advantage, otherwise there would be no point in using it.

The only advantage it gave was that it was low-resource.

When one of the resources that is absent is the player...


curbee wrote:
Lavos wrote:^+ the fact you aren't earning them yourself.

You don't earn anything in a completely random system.

A player who spends more time in the game will have more of a chance to get hats than a player who doesn't. A player who is ingame 24/7 for a week with an idling program will have a significant advantage when it comes to collecting said hats.


But the player who is ingame 24/7 for a week with an idling program has the exact same chance compared to a player who is ingame 24/7 for a week in an achievement_idle server. No advantage.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 06 Sep 2009, 16:58

Except the player ingame actually playing has more fun.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby auberginequeen » 06 Sep 2009, 17:05

Games are no place for FUN.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby curbee » 06 Sep 2009, 17:27

Obviously not. GAMES ARE SRIUS BIZNESS.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Kag » 06 Sep 2009, 17:30

Holy God damn, is this really such serious business that all the idlers need to be so butthurt about it? They should have banned the lot of you for failing so hard.

Yeah, there was no rule against idling using an external application, but there definitely was a rule against what the idle program did.

You are entitled to use the Steam Software for your own use, but you are not entitled to: (i) sell, grant a security interest in or transfer reproductions of the Steam Software to other parties in any way, nor to rent, lease or license the Steam Software to others without the prior written consent of Valve; (ii) host or provide matchmaking services for the Steam Software or emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Valve in any network feature of the Steam Software, through protocol emulation, tunneling, modifying or adding components to the Steam Software, use of a utility program or any other techniques now known or hereafter developed, for any purpose including, but not limited to network play over the Internet, network play utilizing commercial or non-commercial gaming networks or as part of content aggregation networks, without the prior written consent of Valve; or (iii) exploit the Steam Software or any of its parts for any commercial purpose.


So basically, this is not an argument, it is people who cheated and broke the ToS whining without knowing at all what the fuck they are talking about.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Master Gunner » 06 Sep 2009, 18:52

Lyinginbedmon wrote:Except the player ingame actually playing has more fun.


Except if they're in achievement_idle, which all (or >95%) of the people using this program would be, then they're not playing or having more fun. Odds are they'd just be alt-tabbed. On my computer at least, the only thing I might not be able to do with TF2 minimized in an idle server is play Fallout 3 or something. I could still be on the internet, watching Alex, or playing Diablo 2, with minimal slowdown.


But I digress, that's not what this is about...
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Metcarfre » 06 Sep 2009, 22:28

I wonder why you people even bother playing this game, you bitch so much.

I wonder why I play (on the 360); no updates, no new maps, no hats at all.


...


Oh right, 'cuz it's fun. QQ more, you whimper-whiners.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Arius » 06 Sep 2009, 22:37

The thing is people keep saying, "There was no advantage."

The why the fuck did you use the program?
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby auberginequeen » 06 Sep 2009, 22:52

I know that at least some people used it because it was less of a strain on their computers to not be running the full game; therefore they could still be eligible for hats while being able to do more than run TF2 and lag like hell.

While some player's machines can handle running the program and other tasks at the same time, giving them an advantage over those who are not able to do this anyway.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Arius » 06 Sep 2009, 22:58

It was a rhetorical question.

My point is that people using the program used it to acquire hats that you're supposed to get while playing. They weren't playing, if they wanted the hats, they should've played the game.

Want hats - Play game.
Don't want to play game - Don't get hats.

That was the whole way that Valve set the whole thing up. It was meant to be a gameplay mechanic, not a watch fandubs of the lost season of Sailor Moon on YouTube mechanic.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby auberginequeen » 06 Sep 2009, 23:04

Except that people are still able to legitimately get hats by running the program in the background and watching Sailor Moon, so the problem hasn't really been solved at all.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Arius » 06 Sep 2009, 23:11

Yes, people have gotten away with it. Does that mean that no one should be punished?

People have gotten away with stealing. People have gotten away with murder.

Yes, this is much less serious, but if you're caught, expect to be punished. Saying "But they did it." didn't work in kindergarten, it won't work now.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby auberginequeen » 06 Sep 2009, 23:19

But my point was that people can run the game itself in the background and do whatever else they wanted, and that is apparently perfectly legitimate to Valve, seeing as the system is set up to give idlers hats at random.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Arius » 06 Sep 2009, 23:28

The system is for people who play. Valve might end up putting in an idle check anyway. But the fact is, just because other people cheat doesn't mean everyone is allowed to.

Anything that gives you an unintended advantage over legitimate players in any gameplay mechanic is cheating.

Complaining that some people got away with it isn't going to change the fact it is cheating.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Darkobra » 07 Sep 2009, 08:33

I started playing TF2 again lately. I can honestly say I have no idea why people are so obsessed with these hats. I can only see my gun and it has no impact on how I play.

Hats or no hats, I'm sure as hell having a lot of fun.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby The R » 07 Sep 2009, 12:12

You know, Ive been absent from TF2 for the past 2 weeks, and im just catching up on this situation by reading various forums, communities, steamforums ect. ect. and I must ask: Did I miss a point where gamers suddenly turned into a bunch of crybabies with a feverish sense of entitlement?

People talking about "splitting the community", "unjust punishment", "no warning", "branding", "halos must die", "no heals for halos" and even "boycott VALVe".

ARE.. YOU.. FUCKING.. KIDDING... ME?

All this crying and cause for drama over purely cosmetic items? and even more screwed up is the whole "valve created this because of their drop system forcing us to idle" mentality. Nobodies forcing you to do anything, these are optional items that valve was nice enough to introduce for fun as a little bonus, but everyone is creating this bullshit "OMG I HAVE TO HAVE IT, ITS ALL VALVES FAULT".

Furthermore this so-called "harsh and uncalled for punishment" everyones going on about is just the removal of these said items... you can still play and everything, so what's the big deal? They didn't even VAC ban your accounts. Even more crazy is this overwhelming victim complex and rage been thrown to VALVE... seriously I wish this was all a big joke. Halos? "OH NOZ!! HALOS ARE DIVIDING THE COMMUNITY BY BRANDING US WITHOUT THEM DIRTY IDLERS I HATE THEM I HATE THEM BAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW"

When it comes to gaming this is some of the stupidest shit I have ever heard. If such virtual items and the "oh-so-harsh" punishment over them causes you this much anguish, I suggest you uninstall steam and rethink your life.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Master Gunner » 07 Sep 2009, 15:19

+1 to what he said.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby Metcarfre » 07 Sep 2009, 15:25

+2. Very well said.
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Re: Who got caught 'cheating' in TF2?

Postby RathWolf » 07 Sep 2009, 17:51

I haven't played TF2 for a few weeks, so I sort of missed this whole thing.

Just a quick question for clarification, did they remove the items from people just idling in servers or only from people using an external program to simulate idling?
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