The Best Wow race/faction

[Sieg Reyu]

With 4.0.1 and Cataclysm drawing close, it's got me thinking about WoW a whole heckuva lot. So, I thought I would start a discussion about it here in my favorite forum. What I would like to know is, what LRR considers to be the "good" side. Or more specificly, what race is better in terms of moral fiber. I want you to state your belief wihtout reading anyone else's replies, so as to not sway your judgement, and hopefully we will get a pretty interesting conversation going. If it helps, use the DnD alignment system. The poll doesn't include the new races due to constrictions, but feel free to include them.

And as a sidebar to the conversation, what race to you consider to be the best to play or best overall.

[Drinnik]

I love gnomes, but drenai are the most lawgul good. I'm not sure if there are any drenai raid or instance bosses. I'd say neither faction is good, both straddle neutrality.

[Matt]

Draenei are for sure the closest to lawful good, with taurens probably coming in second.

Overall, I'd rete the horde as the "good guys" of WoW, with the exception of the blood elves, who are certainly very grey, if not outright evil. In general these races are more intune with nature and trying to stay alive.

The alliance side's driving moral and political force is the humans, who are power hungry, and willing to sacrifice morality for conquest on a regular basis. Dwarves aren't bad, and gnomes are mostly naieve, and they seem to simply get dragged along for the ride.

The draenei are very much benevolent and lawful, but their alliance with the alliance seems to be more for a desire for order than a moral kinship.

-m

[Drinnik]

What about Night Elves?

Plus the Horde has the Undead and Silvanas is, at best, a dark, dark gray.

[Matt]

What about Night Elves?

Plus the Horde has the Undead and Silvanas is, at best, a dark, dark gray.

The Forsaken in wow are facing extermination at the hands of the humas, and simply trying to secure a place for their race in azeroth - their methods are questionable, but their motive is hard to call "evil"

-m

[Drinnik]

The thing with WoW is, the Alliance are supposed to be the good guys, but lead by a dick, whilst the Horde are supposed to be the bad guys, led by the most honourable man on Azeroth.

Watch in amazement with Catacylsm as Thrall is either killed or deposed and the war between the Horde and the Alliance starts all over.

Though if the rumour about getting rid of Gnomeregan is true, I will be a happy man.

[Vaughn]

Nightelves. makes any class Solid Snake.

Gnomeregans turning into a new instance. a 80+ 5 or 10man or something.

[ANeMzero]

The instance for Gnomeregan is remaining largely the same, though there have been quest npcs added in the dungeon to help give a sense of direction, and also to legitimize a number of shortcuts players have been using forever (which is to say they hand you parachutes for the dangerous jumps)

The outside part of gnomeregan however is being redesigned to act as the 1-5 area for newly created Gnomes.

As for Lawful good races, it definitely would have to be Draenei, but they kind of cheat. I mean the basic definition of the Draenei is "an Eredar who is not evil/demonic" so the moment one is evil it may not be considered a draenei anymore.. Also it doesn't hurt that the two largest draenei settlements (Shattrath and Exodar) both have benevolent gods at their center.

I disagree that the blood elves are the most 'grey' race of the horde, they may have been pretty bad when in TBC, but that was largely under the influence of a crazed leader. Following their redemption in TBC they have made some serious strides.

For one thing, they're no longer so addicted to magic that everyone in their race can literally rip it out of other beings. They have also begun practicing actual paladin arts, rather than simply draining the power out of a naruu. They have even allowed for High-elf pilgrims, members of the Alliance, to visit the re-ignited Sunwell.

On the other hand the Forsaken have always been, well.. Evil. Flat out, irredeemably evil. Even back in Vanilla wow they were flat out evil. An example, there was a quest chain in Swamp of Sorrows for horde, that started from two Royal Apothecaries located at Beggars Haunt. They inform the player that an Alliance spy had been through their camp, and been captured in Stonard. They ask you to gather reagents for a 'truth serum' to use on the spy, though explicitly tell you NOT to inform your allies in Stonard that you are working for the two Undead.

Finally after completing the serum you administer the serum to the spy, though again told to do it without letting anyone at Stonard know. Good news, the 'serum' works. The spy talks, but not for long, and not very loud. Why? Because the serum was actually a very potent poison and begins to liquefy his insides almost immediately.

All he manages to before he turns into a puddle is to whisper to you in crude orcish about the plague the two apothecaries have been working on, and how their goal is to kill anything that lives, not just the Alliance.

Lets face it, nearly all of the major undead quest chains are about working towards some form of super weapon. The plague used at the Wrathgate was something Sylvanas had ordered to be created. The only problem she had was it was used against the horde at the wrong time, by the wrong forsaken.

On the other hand, the trolls, orcs and blood elves have all faced near extinction due to the humans, but since the formation of the new horde have not resorted to anything as inhumane as what the Undead do on a daily basis. The human opposition was simply the motivation behind the Forsaken joining the horde, because they need to not be completely wiped out before they get the chance to kill everyone.

[Sieg Reyu]

Personally here is how I rank them. From most good to least.

1. Tauren = Lawful Good. Easily the most virtous race. They were quick to take up arms and help the struggling orc people. There has yet to be a Tauren as a major villian. In fact the only evil Tauren group are the Grimtotem, and they aren't that much of a threat. They're more of a tauren concern than a widespread one.

2. Orc = Good. They are merely trying to atone for their past and make new lives for themselves. They do not wish to fight, but do in order to defend themselves. However, their focus is more on their own people rather than the world around them. That combined with a bit of brashness and lack of zeal for justice puts them behind the tauren.

3. Dwarf = Chatoic Good. Dwarves are a noble people. They don't seem to care to much for the politics and etiqutte, and more about doing what they are honour bound to do. It has always seemed to me that the the only reason they were in this war is due to some deep debt they owed to the humans, and would acutally get along with the orcs tauren if they actually tried. When reading how Deathbringer Suarfang's death plays out for the alliance, I thought Muradin and Varian's actions should have been swapped. I don't know. Maybe I'm just blinding myself to the truth. I've always liked dwarves.

4. Trolls = Lawful Neutral. They seem to have no real motives other than reclaiming this and upholding that. They seem to just be along for the ride.

5. Draenei = True Neutral. They seem to have a lot of the same ideals and virtues of Tauren, but aren't quite as disposed to do something about it. And if you aren't going do anything, you're neutral. Though I guess they do have other concerns right now, what with the Exodar and what not. Though they do have some of the biggest baddies connected to them. Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde, namely.

6. Goblin = Chaotic Neutral. Everyone knows that Goblin are greedy and will get away with as much as possible. However, they are well aware of how the world works and know full well what comes around goes around, so they abstain from anything sinister. Plus, it's a good policy to keep good realtions so you can milk them for everything they are worth.

7. Gnomes = Slightly more chaotic Neutral. Very much like the goblin, except replace greed with power and fame and they you go. The big difference, is they seem to be oblivious to the trouble they brew until it's too late, and that is dangerous. Lord Jaraxxus, anyone?

9. Undead = Lawful Evil. The undead are incredibly bitter for what they are now. As much as thjey say otherwise, they despise their existance. This kind of self-loathing can lead to some very destructive tendencies. Something is keeping them from killing everything and no one knows what. Possibly hope. Because as long as they hold on to the glimmer that they might one day be restored, maybe the world doesn't need to burn after all.

8. Worgen Lawful slightly less Evil. I don't really have a feel for them yet, but it seems to be a very similar case to the undead. ONly nowhere as bad, but they are a powder keg nonetheless. I only but them after Undead so that I could pull points from it. Thats why the numbers are switch

10. Blood Elf = Evil. This is just personal opinion. I don't like Blood Elves and think they have no place in the horde. They are more of a threat than the undead because I said so.

11. Human = Eviler. They are almost as bad as the night elves. Almost. Their only saving grace is just a little bit of restraint. Just a little. I hate Warcraft humans so much. The only one worth anything is Jaina, but she has bewbs which means she is perma-support-character. You've got Varian Wrynn, a blood hungry madman who puts a personal vendetta first. Someone like that belongs on a battefield, not a throne. So the fact the humans keep him there is a major strike against. You've got all sorts of crazy miltiant types like Daelin Proudmoore who decided the orcs leaving wasn't good enough and brought the war to them, despite their quest for peace. And then you've got Arthas. Boy do I hate arthas. never liked him. The entire time I was playing War 3, I couldn't stop thinking about what a great big d-bag he was. So when he was controlled by the very force he tried to stop, I laughed so hard. I thought of it as the ultimate come-uppance. And I was so totally ready to add insult to injury by killing him. But then ICC came out and watching all the lore unfurl. The way they tried to portray him as the tragic hero sickened me to my ery core. I don't even want to think about what an abomination that plot is. Though Bolvar is, I like Bolvar. Him and Tirion are good with me.

12.Night Elf = Chaotic Evil. Some of you might wonder why I think this. Well, you ever heard of being so Lawful Good you become Chaotic Evil? That's what Night Elves are. It's like in movies or video games where that one guy gets divine powers to punish the evildoers. But over time he starts to get less lenient, and before long all must die, for all are unworthy. Yep, that's night elves. Attacked orcs just for cutting down trees. I have never understood why they ally with anyone, much less the humans and their ilk. Do they just pretend they was a Stormwind City shaped Gap in the middle of Elwynn FOREST. Makes no sense.

As of cataclysm. Tauren will irrefutable be the best race. Can anybody say why? There is a reason. Opinion and interpretation have nothing to do with it. Just facts.

[ANeMzero]

2. Orc = Good. They are merely trying to atone for their past and make new lives for themselves. They do not wish to fight, but do in order to defend themselves.

Actually, considering that Garrosh Hellscream, a brutal and warmongering commander is being appointed interim Warchief for Cataclysm due to overwhelming support by the Orcish people, I'd say they do want to fight.

5. Draenei = Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde

Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde are Ma'nari Eredar, the draenei are the eredar who did NOT follow them.

6. Goblin = Chaotic Neutral. [...] they are well aware of how the world works and know full well what comes around goes around, so they abstain from anything sinister.

The Goblins built the armor that is keeping Deathwing alive, long after he betrayed the other dragonflights in an attempt to kill all the mortal races in Azeroth (and has never once since that time changed his overall objective)

Gnomes = Slightly more chaotic Neutral. Very much like the goblin, except replace greed with power and fame and they you go. The big difference, is they seem to be oblivious to the trouble they brew until it's too late, and that is dangerous. Lord Jaraxxus, anyone?

Gnomes are more interested in knowledge than power or fame. Power/fame is the goblin thing, as seen from the fact that they tend to use slaves for a lot of their work. Using a warlock as an example for the race is unfair, warlocks are almost always obsessed with power and fame, and chaotic. For the most part gnomes have good intentions, they are just a little too excitable with their projects.

Undead = Lawful Evil. Something is keeping them from killing everything and no one knows what. Possibly hope.

You spelled "Horde" wrong, there is no p in it. The horde is what keeps the Forsaken in line. Currently they lack the means of creating new Forsaken, so it is very important that they play by the Hordes rules, at least until the Alliance is taken care of. If they tried to take on the Horde and Alliance at the same time it would result in total defeat and destruction of the entire race. The Horde says they can't use the plague, so for now they can't use the plague.. That has not stopped them from working on it though.

Human = Eviler. You've got Varian Wrynn, a blood hungry madman who puts a personal vendetta first.

Personal vendetta? The Orcs killed Stormwinds King, Llane Wrynn, its Champion, Anduin Lothar, and burned the entire city to the ground, forcing all of its remaining inhabitants to flee to the northern kingdoms.. Then the orcs followed them there and started attacking those kingdoms too.

Yes, Llane was Varians father, and Anduin his mentor and guardian. Sure, Stormwind was the Kingdom he was born to rule, and those are very personal things, but there is little doubt that those events resonate clearly with the populace of Stormwind.

Furthermore, Stormwind was never at peace with the Orcs. Ever. There was a time where they were not at all out war, yes, and during that time Varian grudgingly attempted to negotiate peace with the Orcs, at Jainas request. Every attempt ended up with an attack on Varians life. After this happened a couple of these things I really can't blame the guy for doubting the other side.

Its also worth noting that the human expedition Jaina lead to Kalimdor, that allied with the Orcs to take down Archimonde, was made up of humans from the northern Kingdoms. Gilneas, Kul'tiras, Lordaeron, Stromgarde. No part of the Stormwind military has ever offically worked alongside the Orcs (Remember that players are technically 'mercenaries' / 'heroes' and are not officially part of the Alliance / Horde Military.)

I find it odd how you've chosen to lump all of the Human kingdoms into one for the sake of this list, and yet for trolls you seem to only have focused on the Darkspear tribe (Because lets face it, the majority of the troll tribes are pure-chaotic-fucking-evil.)

12.Night Elf = Chaotic Evil. [..] Yep, that's night elves. Attacked orcs just for cutting down trees. I have never understood why they ally with anyone, much less the humans and their ilk. Do they just pretend they was a Stormwind City shaped Gap in the middle of Elwynn FOREST.

Their initial attack on the Orcs was during a when the orcs and humans expedition to Kalimdor were working together. The first death in that conflict was Duke Lionheart, a human paladin of the Silver Hand. The humans however realized that they should lay off and find wood elsewhere, the orcs didn't, instead opting to start clear-cutting the forest.

The night elves aren't even opposed to cutting down trees, 80% of the buildings in Darnassus are made of wooden planks, Ashenvale is just off-limits.

Oh, and you kind of forgot the part where the Orcs killed Cenarius, a demi-god they worshipped, who was the son of a god and demi-god they also worshipped.

[Vaughn]

"There is no good guys or bad guys, everybody thinks they're righteous"

[Sieg Reyu]

2. Orc = Good. They are merely trying to atone for their past and make new lives for themselves. They do not wish to fight, but do in order to defend themselves.

Actually, considering that Garrosh Hellscream, a brutal and warmongering commander is being appointed interim Warchief for Cataclysm due to overwhelming support by the Orcish people, I'd say they do want to fight.

Yeah, that's gonna end poorly. Letting you know that right now. And I, along with everyone else I know, is washing my hands of it.

5. Draenei = Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde

Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde are Ma'nari Eredar, the draenei are the eredar who did NOT follow them.

But's kind of like saying their are not evil orcs because they don't serve Thrall.

6. Goblin = Chaotic Neutral. [...] they are well aware of how the world works and know full well what comes around goes around, so they abstain from anything sinister.

The Goblins built the armor that is keeping Deathwing alive, long after he betrayed the other dragonflights in an attempt to kill all the mortal races in Azeroth (and has never once since that time changed his overall objective)

I find it odd how you've chosen to lump all of the goblins into one for the sake of this list.

Deathwing had many followers. Each had a role. The goblin's abilities were used to make his armor and the Dragon sould, which was orignally used to fight Sargares anyway.

Gnomes = Slightly more chaotic Neutral. Very much like the goblin, except replace greed with power and fame and they you go. The big difference, is they seem to be oblivious to the trouble they brew until it's too late, and that is dangerous. Lord Jaraxxus, anyone?

Gnomes are more interested in knowledge than power or fame. Power/fame is the goblin thing, as seen from the fact that they tend to use slaves for a lot of their work. Using a warlock as an example for the race is unfair, warlocks are almost always obsessed with power and fame, and chaotic. For the most part gnomes have good intentions, they are just a little too excitable with their projects.

I'll admit, I didn't use the word I was thinking of. I was trying to say recognitin. Every gnome wants to go down in history.

Undead = Lawful Evil. Something is keeping them from killing everything and no one knows what. Possibly hope.

You spelled "Horde" wrong, there is no p in it. The horde is what keeps the Forsaken in line. Currently they lack the means of creating new Forsaken, so it is very important that they play by the Hordes rules, at least until the Alliance is taken care of. If they tried to take on the Horde and Alliance at the same time it would result in total defeat and destruction of the entire race. The Horde says they can't use the plague, so for now they can't use the plague.. That has not stopped them from working on it though.

If they wanted to, they could. In the deathgate video a small force of renegade undead handily took down a small army. It's more than just a matter of having to, it's wanting to.

Human = Eviler. You've got Varian Wrynn, a blood hungry madman who puts a personal vendetta first.

Personal vendetta? The Orcs killed Stormwinds King, Llane Wrynn, its Champion, Anduin Lothar, and burned the entire city to the ground, forcing all of its remaining inhabitants to flee to the northern kingdoms.. Then the orcs followed them there and started attacking those kingdoms too.

Yes, Llane was Varians father, and Anduin his mentor and guardian. Sure, Stormwind was the Kingdom he was born to rule, and those are very personal things, but there is little doubt that those events resonate clearly with the populace of Stormwind.

Germany, Nazis, godwin's law. You should see where I'm going with this.

Furthermore, Stormwind was never at peace with the Orcs. Ever. There was a time where they were not at all out war, yes, and during that time Varian grudgingly attempted to negotiate peace with the Orcs, at Jainas request.Every attempt ended up with an attack on Varians life. After this happened a couple of these things I really can't blame the guy for doubting the other side.

Umm, what? When did I claim they were? And as for the assassination, just as in real life, in wow there are war-mongerers, but that is in no way indicative.

Its also worth noting that the human expedition Jaina lead to Kalimdor, that allied with the Orcs to take down Archimonde, was made up of humans from the northern Kingdoms. Gilneas, Kul'tiras, Lordaeron, Stromgarde. No part of the Stormwind military has ever offically worked alongside the Orcs (Remember that players are technically 'mercenaries' / 'heroes' and are not officially part of the Alliance / Horde Military.)

What does this have to do with anything? What claim are you making?

I find it odd how you've chosen to lump all of the Human kingdoms into one for the sake of this list, and yet for trolls you seem to only have focused on the Darkspear tribe (Because lets face it, the majority of the troll tribes are pure-chaotic-fucking-evil.)

Since all of the Human kingdoms are part of the alliance, I fail to see your point.

12.Night Elf = Chaotic Evil. [..] Yep, that's night elves. Attacked orcs just for cutting down trees. I have never understood why they ally with anyone, much less the humans and their ilk. Do they just pretend they was a Stormwind City shaped Gap in the middle of Elwynn FOREST.

Their initial attack on the Orcs was during a when the orcs and humans expedition to Kalimdor were working together. The first death in that conflict was Duke Lionheart, a human paladin of the Silver Hand. The humans however realized that they should lay off and find wood elsewhere, the orcs didn't, instead opting to start clear-cutting the forest.

The night elves aren't even opposed to cutting down trees, 80% of the buildings in Darnassus are made of wooden planks, Ashenvale is just off-limits.

Oh, and you kind of forgot the part where the Orcs killed Cenarius, a demi-god they worshipped, who was the son of a god and demi-god they also worshipped.

They were led by Grom and at the time they were all tainted by demon blood, hitler, nazis, godwin's law, blah blah blah.

[ANeMzero]

Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde are Ma'nari Eredar, the draenei are the eredar who did NOT follow them.

But's kind of like saying their are not evil orcs because they don't serve Thrall.

At this point the Draenei have been running from the Ma'nari Eredar for tens of thousands of years. You might as well argue that the gorillas in Warcraft are evil too, because humans are soooo evil.

I find it odd how you've chosen to lump all of the goblins into one for the sake of this list.

Because all the defining traits of a goblin are the same defining traits of a sociopath.

If they wanted to, they could. In the deathgate video a small force of renegade undead handily took down a small army. It's more than just a matter of having to, it's wanting to.

That was due to having the higher ground in a box canyon during a land based conflict. Not to mention that the plague kills undead too, they can't use it defensively and they can't use it against aerial units. Even with the plague, if they tried to take on everyone they would be crushed.

You should see where I'm going with this.

Nope

What does this have to do with anything? What claim are you making?

You made the claim that Varian was a blood thirsty madman, I made the claim that his war with the orcs was justified, and then backed it up with proof that Stormwind technically never stopped being at war with the orcs. Also that Varian escalated the war only when he had exhausted a number of alternatives.

I find it odd how you've chosen to lump all of the Human kingdoms into one for the sake of this list, and yet for trolls you seem to only have focused on the Darkspear tribe (Because lets face it, the majority of the troll tribes are pure-chaotic-fucking-evil.)

Since all of the Human kingdoms are part of the alliance, I fail to see your point.

All of the Human kingdoms used to be part of the Alliance of Lordaeron. Similar to how all the troll tribes used to be part of the Amani or Gurubashi Empires, which, while they hated each other, worked together to some degree in an attempt to take down the Aqir Empire.

The Alliance of Lordaeron is a very similar case, formed in reaction the the Orcish threat. The ties between the humans were tenuous at best, though the Alliance was not just humans. Dwarves, both Bronzebeard and Wildhammer joined, as did the high elves and gnomes.

The only thing the human kingdoms of the AoL could agree on was that orcs were bad. Internal power struggles lead to a situation where most of the human kingdoms have since been destroyed, fell due to internal corruption or seceded.

They were led by Grom and at the time they were all tainted by demon blood

Not something the night elves could have possibly known about and does not change the fact that the Orcs continued their campaign to clear-cut Ashenvale regardless of warnings, even following their truce for the Battle of Hyjal.

[Cureless_Poison]

Humans hands down, aside from being one myself I f*cking love the racials.

CC breaker makes you a nightmare in the arena and saves a trink slot.
Increased stealth detection is awesome.
+10% rep makes faction farming so much easier.
Bonus mace and sword expertise is handy as well.
Then extra spirit is...good I guess. Never played a class that really uses it.


I always wanted to make a Gnome or Night Elf but I can't bear to not have my racials. That and I think humans look the best in terms of scale. All the other races are too small/buff/lanky, as where humans are perfect for displaying gear.

[NecroVale]

I think Draenei are the closest to LG.

I'm also going to miss Thrall. I hope he won't be dead after cata. It would make me a very sad panda.