Thanks everyone for your patience and your information. I'm not going to do the chunk chopping for some time now, as it's a more major project that I have to devote a significant amount of time and effort to. (Also, I've found out that I can't do it on my Linux computer at work, and my access to my home PC is very limited. My monitor is the 32" TV, and my parents are living with me since the house fire last year, and they watch TV a bunch. They're also home all day now, with my dad retiring the other week and my mom on medical leave due to knee surgery and the complications that resulted from that.)
The server's currently down because someone didn't pay attention to the "Don't break other people's stuff" rule. At this point, I've moved beyond frustration, and I just don't care any more. This no longer bothers me, and I'm no longer getting angry. You're only hurting yourselves and your fellow players by breaking the rules. You're not affecting me. Thus, my mental situation is getting better, and I'm not going to rage at players as much. I think I've moved into a "It's not personal; it's business." mode. This can be seen as somewhat bad, as some of you have moved out of the category of "people" and into the category of "resources to be managed" in my head. However, the more you follow the rules, the more you stay on the "people" side.
Anyway, specific responses.
Lord Hosk wrote:Stuff about the railroad
I already got it 2/3 done, so you can see what I'm talking about. You kind of have it right, but I was aggravated and "for one" really was "for one" as there were other things I changed, like removing the 2 tons of ugly, useless cobble you had surrounding the outside of the tunnel in some places.
I also built in an interchange where the 2 rails crossed. It's not the prettiest, but I worked with what I had.
El_Spectre wrote:I've read the last dozen pages or so, and wanted to get clarification: Is there a documented list of rules (beyond Wheaton's law) somewhere? Something solid would help.
Also, is it seriously the policy that projects must be approved by the admin?
Finally, is there any way to stake a claim (i.e. "I think the mountain at XXX, -ZZZ is unused. Anyone building within X blocks that objects to me using it?) ?
I gather that there's a fair amount of history and community knowledge... anything that is documented for the rank newbie (about the rules, not Minecraft) would be greatly appreciated.
Most of the rules are on the server itself, though the past couple of weeks have shown they need some improvement. Regarding picking out spots, now that there's a server map, it's a whole lot easier for me to vet places, so staking a claim is much easier.
Projects themselves don't have to be approved, but I'd like some sort of indication of the scope of the project so I know what type of area I'm dealing with when I end up putting others near you. You could easily start small, but if your final scope is 500 square blocks in area, I'll know not to put anyone else there in the future, even if it's not developed yet.
auberginequeen wrote:Once you acknowledge you have read the rules you can be authorized (by Memo definitely, I don't know if mods can do it too) to break blocks and go on to build stuff.
As for admin approval, as far as I know it's mostly to make sure you don't run into other people's stuff. Memo has a pretty good idea of where people have built things and it's wise to ask him about it to make sure no one's too close to you. Aside from rail systems and maybe nether portals/XP farms I don't think there's much of a restriction on what you can or cannot build.
You should be able to claim areas based on your x/y/z coordinates as well by asking here/in-game, but of course the advantage to asking Memo is that if the person whose structure is at x/y/z isn't around no one may object even though there's already something really close to you.
Basically this, though mods can approve new players, too. I still need to work out a system where the mods can inform me who they've authorized, though.
Internal rail systems are fine with me, so if you're building a rail from one part of your project to another, or from your project to your mine, and so forth, that does not need to be approved. Examples of this are Lurkon, Osprey, muihtils, and various other people.
However, external rail systems, connecting your area to other player's projects, need to be passed by me.
Regarding the Nether, the protocol there is organically growing. Mainly, it's just 1. Don't mess with other people's stuff, and 2. If your Nether portal connections are going wacky, contact me so I can see if I can set you up a personal portal that consistently connects to just yours.
Lord Hosk wrote:You don't need his approval on what to build exactly, you aren't going to say "I want to build a light house here" or "I want to recreate The Persistence of Memory" and he will say "no, we have too many lighthouses already" or "I hate surrealism, if you want to make a painting build American Gothic or The Son of Man.
Its more like "I want to build a smiley face ball 200 blocks in diameter. and -200 310" and he will say "dude, thats ambitious, go for it, but you cant build at -200 310, Auberginequeen is building at -150 275 and you excavating to bedrock would reck her underground village. Ill transport you out to -1500 900 in the middle of the desert, it will make it easier for you to dig down. Go for it.
Basically this as well.
Nargimeg wrote:I believe part of the reason people aren't spreading out much, is because Spawn City is actually a useful place, and the farther away you are, the harder it is to make use of. I know I have made several trips back to purchase resources and enchants I needed and hadn't found. I know there are rails that travel out from Spawn City, but every rail line I have tried either takes me to a rail station with no exits other than the tracks, or away from my area. I have found the quickest way to travel is to just go by foot. For me, this process is already a 5-10 minute swim, so I don't really want to make it any longer. (When I have tried to use a boat, I travel too fast for the updates and repeatedly fall through the world, so swimming is easier.)
If there were rails connecting farther out, people might be more inclined to move farther away before beginning to settle, but there is no way one person can construct rail lines for every new person with as many new people as the server has been receiving. I also know there are several people that would like to connect their places together by rail to make working together easier. Again, this requires the time and attention of the admin and is not really sustainable as the server continues to grow.
I totally hear you, and it would be much easier if I could get the rail network that I have planned to make for some time implemented. I haven't been able to do this, though due to the massive influx of new players. I can't work on the infrastructure while I'm still working on the PR issues.
I will be so glad when 1.8 comes out and I can hand out some more of the administrative stuff to the mods by using the /trigger command.
Nargimeg wrote:I think if everyone works together we could solve both problems. My suggestion would be to create a spreadsheet much like the XCam spreadsheet. It would allow players to list where they would like rail lines to go, by player name and in game coordinates. Then when AdmiralMemo has free time he can consult the list and approve the rail lines. Then place marking stones throughout the game world to mark the path the rail line would follow. To ensure rails are built to his exacting standards in the style desired, he could then build one complete section to use as a template.
This would allow the players, who combined have far more time than any one person, to build the rails in their time frame. If they think it needs to be done immediately, the onus is on them to do it. They would be responsible for repeating the template section as many times as necessary to complete the rail line. The template should ensure that the rail matches AdmiralMemo's vision, and is much easier to communicate that written directions.
Once the track is built, they can update the spreadsheet again asking for validation of the rail. Again, when AdmiralMemo has free time, he can inspect the rail. If there is an issue, everyone can meet in game to get an understanding of the issue, and then again it is up to the players to fix the problems and seek validation again. Once the rail is validated, AdmiralMemo can add the stations to each end so they work like the current rails.
This method would allow many new rail sections to be added simultaneously. In addition, it would improve the speed and efficiency at which new people can move away from Spawn City to new open areas, and increase the speed of returning when needed.
good in theory, but it fails to factor in my OCD, my temper, and the fact that each rail I build is different, due to differing factors. There are things that are incommunicable by words that I can just look at or just do and can't explain why it's "right" or "wrong" to anyone else.
Also, when I get angry, I know how I am, and I know that you can't make it right with me. If you've done something wrong, there are two reasons you could have done it: maliciousness or incompetence. Both of those things anger me, for different reasons. If you're deliberately pissing me off, you can see why that'd anger me. If you're doing something incompetently, you shouldn't have done it in the first place, and it's either your laziness, your apathy, or your impatience that made it so you couldn't wait for me to do it.
Also, I guess you haven't been online any of the times I have mentioned "rail therapy." I do the rails because it gets me into a zone. It's my zen. It gets me into a place where I can just take my plan and follow through with it. I really don't want anyone taking my zen away from me.
Lord Chrusher wrote:Does anyone know how much of effect high ping has on the server slowing down? As I am in Australia and the server I assume is somewhere in the northern hemisphere, I never have a good connection to the server. While I would like to continue my project, if I am causing the server to lag I will gladly refrain from joining the server while I am in a country with terrible internet. I am likely moving back to North America in a few months so this would not be a permanent exile for me.
I am trying to determine that. It's a complex thing to factor, as there are several things both inside MineCraft and outside to take into account.
Essentially, what causes lag? Too many block updates per second. What causes a block update? All sorts of things:
Players removing or placing blocks.
Chunks loading and unloading from player movement.
Each tick (20 ticks per second) of a furnace cooking something.
Redstone changing status.
Each tick going by (20 ticks per second) as an item's on the ground.
Fluids changing height as they flow.
Mobs (both friendly and hostile) moving.
Sand and gravel falling.
Various other things.
So what causes lag? You might as well be asking what causes a flood. You can't point to any raindrop causing a flood, so you can't point to any specific thing causing the lag. It's a problem that only appears in aggregate.
So, for example, a farm of 50 cows might be fine if there's just 2 players on, but if 10 players are on, all mining, building, cooking, etc. the same farm might be too much with even only 15 cows.
So is your poor connection causing lag? Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on how many people are on, who specifically is on with you, what you're doing, what everyone else is doing, and what is going on around everyone.
Regarding the server, it's located in Baltimore, Maryland. Specifically, 300 W. Lexington Street, if you care to see the building. One issue I've found is that bad ISPs will typically try to come into the network through the Paris end, rather than the Baltimore end, causing at least 180 ms in unnecessary lag for every packet, and there's not much that the company I work for can do about this. We have a few plans that should help, but ultimately, it's not in our hands.
AlexAshman wrote:Memo, I didn't realise I was full-on banned - thanks for reversing it. I understand what happened and don't intend to do it again. I'll be sure to find a spot and check with you before doing anything more.
http://map.lrrcraft.com/ should help with that, now that it exists.
Also, I thought I unbanned you, but I saw you tried to come in and were still banned. I realized I made a capitalization error previously (alexashman =/= AlexAshman), and unbanned you right away. However, I never saw you come back after that one time you tried.
AdmiralMemo wrote:I hope this alleviates most questions and concerns, and I'll try to get the server up and running again tonight. Let me know if you want something clarified, or you want to comment on something I said.
The is the part that simultaneously puzzles and worries me. The server didn't crash. We're not trying to repair anything, unless your method of turning it off was to literally smash something. "Getting the server back up" is, as far as I'm aware, just you turning it back on.
As for the worry part, if a 48-hour (so far) outage is the result of a handful of people making honest mistakes, many of them in the spirit of assisting the person who controls our access to this community world, I can't imagine the sort of intentional griefers that are going to be drawn here, knowing what sort of reaction they could spark with the smallest of effort. (holy run-on sentence Batman!)
I appreciate everything that's been done for us here, but I don't know where the server's headed with the recent leap in popularity. I guess nowhere, at the moment.
Well, shortly after I wrote that, I ended up passing out in my computer chair, unfortunately. Then, I woke up, and had to go to work. Monday at work was terrible
and I ended up spending the day and most of the night at work. So it wasn't until Tuesday that I could even consider getting the server back up and running, let alone fixing anything. Ultimately, yes, it's just one command I have to input in the console, but life's been pretty insane to me this past month and longer.
El_Spectre wrote:If we're seriously talking about the server being a PC in someone's home, and that (or the hardware limits of that machine) being a problem... aren't there professional services for this kinda thing?
It seems like a lot of problems could be alleviated for only a buck or two per player, per month. Am I wrong?
The server's in a server farm that I rent out from the company I work for. If I had $1 per player per month, I'd have $200 a month to work with and could have a server that's 4 times as powerful as the current server.
FITorion wrote:If I may offer a bit of an explanation as to why people are trying to be as close to the spawn as they can...
1. It's nice and if we go too far away then it's hard to get back to.
2. The reason I and I think many other people play on a server is so that others can see our creations and we can see theirs. If we go way off into the distance then we may as well just be playing alone.
Heck I've been thinking of asking for a bit of surface only land near spawn to build a skyscraper on... after I've completed my current project anyway. Why? because It wouldn't look as nice off in the wilderness as it would next to other buildings. I'm a long ways off from being ready to start on that project so no need to worry and I would not do it without approval.
There is that to factor in. However, my planned rail network would alleviate that problem. The problem hindering the rail network, though, is the fact that I'm dealing with so many new players interrupting my building of the infrastructure.
FITorion wrote:I've picked up something of a motto from the internet... Never attribute to malice that which can be ascribed to sheer stupidity.
Do not jump to the conclusion that people are trying to nag or trying to be a jerk or trying to interrupt you. I know it can be hard to have the insight into others motives needed for dealing with people... That's where the motto comes in.
Unfortunately, stupidity angers me greatly, too. So whether out of malice or incompetence, it's not going to get on the right side of me either way.
Omega696 wrote:The server is actually on a server, Memo rents space and runs it on a server farm from what I gather.
However the problem with the Game Server is that Minecraft is not stable as a Game Server, certainly it seems to develop issues with network latency, the further you are from the physical hardware the more time it takes to do a send and response, and how it deals with connections with high lag, or low latency. When you run it on your PC your running it on your machine the game server literally is your machine, when you run it on a server you have network traffic, ISP connections, lag, physical distance, Local ISP to desktop connection, bandwidth, all sorts of things that compound with software than just doesn't do things.... efficiently might be the best way to put it. Issues seem to snowball into avalanches and they take the server down, or require restarting and rebooting it regularly to clear up the hold over problems. Like a memory leak on an app, you can kill the app but sometimes the system needs a restart to clear the held memory.
Essentially, yes. Factors both from within the game and from without snowball.
Lord Hosk wrote:Whats with that weird thing at X3800 Z1200?
and at the 5000's 5000 5000, 5000 -5000 -5000 -5000 -5000 5000
The first was a bad teleport when I was trying to get to X3800 Z-1200. The other 4 are teleports where I was looking to put bob9746 (or whatever numbers he has). He's an annoying child that won't relent, and was bothering me on another server I visit, PC Gamer. I whitelisted him so he would stop being a brat to everyone on there, even after I muted him. However, I wanted to put him somewhere where he couldn't affect anyone else. 3 of those are going away when I do the chunk cull, and the 4th (the SouthWest one) is getting trimmed to be just the island.
Lord Hosk wrote:Im not sure exactly how rail ways work but would you be able to set up a high speed rail at like Y 150 blocks?
Have a repeater every 5 blocks, that could zip out North South East West, 1500 or 3000 blocks then build a new rail "hub" there? That could prevent people from clumping up at spawn but still give them access to spawn.
I dont know if thats even possible im just speculating.
Conoros wrote:Having something of a 'frontier' station would be a good way to guide new people coming in too. The downside of course being that you would need to build new ones periodically once they're not the frontier anymore, so it might be more trouble than its worth
Volafortis wrote:I know an idea the Osprey and I had was a teleporter to and from a second central hub out in the 1.7 lands, which would give access to spawn city from a distant hub which could serve more distant builds while maintaining Spawn City access. Other options discussed were just building a second community city out in the distance, and connecting them by rail.
The issue is, in both cases, it's a lot of work, as it would require a lot of new rail to be laid out, since it would be getting laid out from scratch.
(Mind you, Memo wasn't in the conversation, so it was entirely just Osprey and myself tossing out ideas to try and get some world out in the 1.7 world chunks.)
The way rails work in MineCraft, the trains are currently running at the highest speeds they can. A powered rail every 5 blocks would actually slow the cart down, compared to the current system, due to the exact timing of ticks, and how long the cart stays on the specific track block, and everything.
I have been considering adding another hub somewhere with a teleport room for transportation between them, but those plans have been put on hold for a significant amount of time due to other projects being more pressing, and lots of logistics with the new players.
El_Spectre wrote:AdmiralMemo, can you white list me for the server (same username as here), please?
I sure can.
FourEyedTroll wrote:I think you're pretty familiar with where my build is, so I'll not insult you by telling you where to find it. Presumably, you want me to carry on building the barn? I did a bit more today, just as an when I need a break from writing survey proposals.
Certainly fine by me. I may end up modifying it a bit once it's done to expand and have more stalls. I'd like to see what you build first, though, so I can have a template to follow.
El_Spectre wrote:So, I was on the server for less than 5 minutes. In that time, I was killed by Memo (for not responding quickly enough), argued with by Memo (I used the wrong name for a place), and called names (guess who) for some reason.
A pity, it looks like you folks have built some neat things, but I can't play in a world run by a petty tyrant with anger issues.
I apologize for my impatience, but I was in the middle of work. If you catch me outside of my work hours (10 AM to 6 PM EST, Tuesday - Thursday; Noon to 8 PM EST Monday; 2 PM to 10 PM EST Friday), I will usually have more patience. During work, I have limited time, so I try to deal with server issues quickly, and get back to making the money that pays for my house, food, and the server.
If y'all can get me about $1600 a month, I could quit my job and work on the server full-time. Barring that, though, bills need to be paid, so work must continue.
First, I killed you just to back to spawn. You're acting like death's a problem on a server where you keep all your items and levels. Second, I argued with you because you were not explaining yourself well, but once I understood, the matter was settled. Third, I called you "slow" but I was unaware that I was calling you "names" by doing that.
I may be a tyrant with anger issues, I admit, but I try to be a most benevolent dictator when I can be. I have my faults, but I hope that I can have more time to spend on things other than new player management once 1.8 comes out and I can grant the Mods more freedom and permissions.
Volafortis wrote:Alright, who stole my horse armor? Because it *had* iron armor, and now it has none.
That was disturbing, but I gave you some diamond armor to compensate. Someone stole my secondary horse, too, and it had diamond armor and a name.
Alright, I hope that clears everything up, and I hope you'll excuse the down-time while I repair things. (I only just
realized tonight that I can repair things locally instead of putting the server up on whitelist again and dealing with lag and failed log-ons. DERP!) I'll see what I can get done tomorrow, but Magic will interfere for a few hours.