LRR Minecraft Server

[KittyKibitzer]

Thanks for the rail map. its cool. I think i live too far out to use it but its still cool self exile haha thanks Memo

[AdmiralMemo]

I am a terrible person. I hate you all, you hate me, and I hate myself.

[Lord Hosk]

Thats not exactly a productive attitude to have.

[Conoros]

It's also not true

[auberginequeen]

ily Memo.

[FITorion]

I am a terrible person. I hate you all, you hate me, and I hate myself.

I don't hate you but I'm beginning to think I'll never understand you.

And man it's hard to get tone across in text. I've written several paragraphs in these past few posts more than I actually posted. All supposed to have a tone of caring... but when I reread them they sounded pompous and or daring or challenging... so I deleted them.

[BlackDragonMTG]

alright alright alright...cut the crap people I got work to do on the server dag nabbit! So let's get this across the world now, the world is considered the admin's structure. Mining is free for all so long as you don't mine through someone's base. That's why we get permitted once we find a build location. Once we do so we are allowed to affect that area pretty much how we want so long as it's confined in that approved area. Anything outside of it requires further permission from the admin. such as running a rail line from home to the admin public rail system. It's pretty much griefing the admin's structure. The same could be applied to the two other worlds.

[AlexAshman]

Sounds like the first question then is how many people would be willing to kick in some money? I know I would.

I'd be happy to pay to help support a proper server if (and I swear, I'm not trying to start a fight) it were managed reasonably.

I'd be happy to make a respectable contribution to the running costs, if the server could be kept running except for technical downtime.

I would accept that if I dug a tunnel through three people's basements then I'd be kicked (voice of experience here), but I wouldn't want to be locked out because someone else somewhere was griefing or overstepping the boundaries. I appreciate things take time to fix, but can't they be fixed while folk carry on mining?

I'm sure Memo feels frustrated that, given the time and money he's invested in the server, people go around breaking stuff. (Yes, he is Lord Business IRL - deal with it.) But that doesn't mean he couldn't be less heavy-handed, particularly if people could follow through on promises of proper funding. The question is, would Memo agree to deal much more discreetly with griefers if we were to offer proper support?

Alex

[Lord Hosk]

I too would be willing to apply funding, but not if the server is going to go down for days or weeks at a time because "someone did something I didn't like"

[Admiralmatt]

is there a reason the server went down? is it easier to work on and change things while it's down?

also, on the website it says to enter mc.lrrcraft.com into the Server Address and it doesn't work for me. but LRRcraft.com does work.

[Lord Hosk]

The only explanation we have heard as to why the server is currently down is that someone build something in the nether that could have screwed up something that other people were doing and AdmiralMemo got upset, banned 4 people then shut things down.


AdmiralMemo asks us to post things in this thread and consult this thread but then says all the time that he doesnt have time to keep up to date on this thread and he is really bad at communicating what is going on.

[deathjavu]

I think it's worth making the distinction, since I've seen it in two posts, that I didn't actually take down/deconstruct anything that anyone else had made.

Another distinction that's a little more nitpicky is that the rail line itself didn't stretch all the way to the train station. The path did, but not the rail. Admittedly a very minor distinction.

I don't hate anyone, it's not a good use of my time. At this point, I just want to put the items in my inventory in a chest, and let everyone have at them. Same for my base and stuff at x = 3063, y = 1875 - free to anyone who wants it. Tons of good stuff out there, including a double chest full of smooth stone. Ed: maybe not this.

I was playing waaaaaaay too much minecraft anyway, RL is demanding a lot of my time from now until I graduate in May.

[AdmiralMemo]

I'm sorry that the server's down. I just can't deal with people currently. Like, at all. I'm drained. I'm wiped. My stamina, energy, and will to live is just gone.

Here's the key problem:

This server's grown well beyond what I can handle.
I need help.
There are plenty who say "I want to help!"
I don't trust most of those who say that, though.
Why? I don't know you well, or at all.
It was very difficult for me to get the current Mods in place, even with the little sliver of power I've given them. (I fear another problem like I had with Mods before.)
Also, many people who "help" end up doing things incorrectly, and thus, make double work for me, since I have to fix the thing first, and then do what was initially intended.
This server was mostly manageable prior to January. Now, it's out of control, and sapping all my energy. I no longer know what to do. I tried just removing the problem people temporarily, but it didn't work, because I couldn't fix the issues without being taken away from that by some other person who wanted something else. It is VERY hard for me to change gears.

I apologize to everyone, as this has made me pretty much insane and nearly suicidal, due to all the new people interrupting things. (With my ADD, my laser-focus causes me to get very irritable when knocked off-course. With everyone yammering in my ear "I need this! I want that! Give me this now!" all the time, I've been knocked around like a pinball.) This has not helped communication one bit, I admit. I haven't had a chance to get done any of the stuff I've been meaning to get done, and my To-Do list just keeps getting longer and longer. I have no sense of accomplishment because I'm not actually getting anything done with all the competing demands.

If people would stay in their little boxes so I could keep track of them, I'd be much happier. I just get very frustrated when I don't know what's going on, and people aren't telling me what they're doing. I don't do well with surprises.

[cptsteiny]

Hi Memo! First, I want to say that I'm grateful for all that you do, clearly you have a monumental task keeping the server running smoothly and making sure we all don't step on each others' toes.

However, what seems to be coming clearer every day is that communication between all of us is a problem. There have been several instances of people claiming they cleared building projects with you in-game and then later on you claiming to know nothing about them. Now, I don't want to place blame on anyone in these situations because I can envision it easily going either way. It could just be that they asked in the in-game chat and you said yes, but were in fact responding to someone else. Or, since there are a growing number of us, it could be that you just didn't remember giving approval. And since in-game chat is lost pretty rapidly, it is impossible to figure out which situation is happening.

So, in-game chat doesn't seem to be a very good forum for such things. This thread also does not seem to be helping, since we're already on page 163 (and the AdmiralMemo server part is at least a couple dozen pages of that) so it makes it very hard to keep track of who's where and doing what and what's been approved without reading way too many pages. And sometimes the thread grows so fast it's hard to keep up.

Is there a possibility of hosting our own message board on lrrcraft.com? That way we could break out this thread into multiple threads and even have multiple boards concerning various topics. I know at least 15 years ago (showing my age) there used to be free message board systems, perhaps such things still exist?

Finally, I am still pretty much a noob at Minecraft so perhaps I'm not a great candidate for being a Mod, but I would like to help the community out in any way I can. So please, let me know if there's anything I can do to help out.

Honestly, I think all of us here want you to keep your sanity while providing a great place to play Minecraft.

[AdmiralMemo]

There was a message board on the old LRRcraft, but as it took a while just to get even the bare-bones page up, that's clearly not my forte.

I've considered just making the server limit 2: Me and someone else online and that's it. I can deal with people one-on-one, but having the crowd of voices in my head drives me insane. I feel how Red would in TPP, if he were real.

I do have all of the logs. They're not "lost" completely. So if you want, I can go back through and review them all. It'll take some time. I haven't been able to read the logs in several months at least.

If there's blame to go around, it's on me. Like I said, I'm a horrible person. I probably shouldn't be doing this, but the problem just came up so suddenly. Everything was going fine, with 2 or 3 bumps along the way, and then BAM! January came and threw everything against the wall.

Now, if there could be a little bit of patience and order to things, I think I could deal with it. If you could say "Hey, Memo. I need a quick way to get to Spawn." I could say "Yeah, I'll put it on my list." But then, if you're all "Screw it! He's taking too long. I'll just build it myself." it becomes a problem. If there was more order and less "Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis." I think I could deal better.

Regarding the claim of me clearing building projects and not remembering, there is a good chance I could have done it in my sleep. That could very well be the cause of me not remembering any of it. Lack of sleep due to job, LRL, and server issues has been a very persistent problem for me since January.

I just need time to think, to decompress, away from people who, probably unintentionally, are breaking me.

[Sibanamush]

I want to preface this by saying that I really appreciate the work and effort AdmiralMemo has put into creating the server, and building it up to be a place that people are excited to join. I've had a lot of fun playing there.

That said, I really feel that something needs to change.

TLDR - Click to Expand

The server has grown too much for Memo to handle alone and its causing issues. It's also currently Memo's server, open to the LRR community , Not the LRR community server as administrated by Memo. We need to find a way to address that

The LONG Explanation - Click to Expand

I feel that the problem is that to Memo , this is HIS server ( and it IS, he set it up , he pays for it , he maintains it ). But to the rest of us, this is OUR game, we're just playing it on what we see as the LRR Community server.

As Memo has said , the server has grown recently ,a lot, way too much for one person to handle on his own. And again with no offence or disrespect intended at all, to you Memo this is YOUR server, and you have come across as, well, I think "excessively controlling" is putting it mildly, and you seem to have some trust issues that mean you will not, or cannot, delegate any control to anyone else. ( the mods you've put in place currently honestly don't really seem to have anything that they are able to do except stand on the plate to authorize new players )

I also think that you have dramatic over reactions to things that are relatively minor problems. I don't think that there is a technical reason that the server needs to be shut down in order for you to 'fix' (aka undo) something that someone has built that you disagree with. I certainly understand needing to shut it down from the viewpoint of your mental health however (and that is MUCH more important than people's ability to play a game on a particular server).

So I'm going to break down what I see as the problems in point form , since I tend to run on in sentences and have my point get lost.

The Problems, From the player's perspective

- Excessive unexplained downtime

- Seemingly Random bannings

- Lack of explanations

- Occasionally curt, rude and frankly insulting behaviour from admin (not always , and as I've spent more time on the server I've gotten more used to your sense of humour Memo, you can be very helpful and fun to interact with when you're in a good mood and not overloaded )

- Only one admin to ask about anything & everything

- Contradictory messages ( being told to "Spread the bus out!" , and then being told to stay within 2k of spawn )

- Being contained to building restrictions without a clear outline of what those restrictions are ( nether building not allowed? where does my territory end? no rail lines? etc. )

-General getting snapped at for asking a question or doing something 'wrong', especially when you're trying to do so to follow a rule , such as getting a building place approved , or getting authorized initially and not understanding the process

The Problems (as I understand them) from Memo's perspective

- Too many new people

- People randomly building things where they shouldn't be ( intruding onto other player's areas , and expanding into other general areas that are 'out of bounds' )

- Inability to delegate anything to anyone.

- Too many people with too many problems / issues / wants / needs / complaints to handle

- People straying from the intended ( building things you disagree with, MOSTLY rail related )

As I see it , if the server is to continue on from where it is Memo , you HAVE to give up some control of the actual running of the server, you CANNOT do all of this yourself, it is not healthy for you and the impact of you trying to do everything on your own is having on you is making it so that your actions and reactions are becoming more and more of a problem for the people who are trying to play on the server.

I don't know specifically what the problems that you had with previous mods were, and I personally don't really care ( sorry , just not feeling like living through a rehashing of old grievances that I have no context or involvement in. I'm not saying I don't care that they happened to you, just saying I have no stake in the matter ). But as I see it you're using that as an excuse to not give up any control, and it HAS to happen.

I feel that we the players want this to be the "LRRcraft COMMUNITY server", not "Memo's world, open to the LRR community, but restricted to the vision of Memo". As I see it, there are four options

Option 1 - No change

Things continue on exactly as they have been, AdmiralMemo gets increasingly overloaded and frustrated, and the players continue to annoy and frustrate him , while generally not understanding why or how they are doing it , and generally trying to have a good time in spite of that.

Option 2 - No community Server

Scrap the whole thing. Memo closes off his world and takes it back to what he set it up for originally, his own world that he can access from multiple computers. I would be disappointed if this was the way things went , but sometimes thats how things go.

Option 3 - New community Server

Memo takes his world back to what he meant it for originally, and we the LRR community Minecraft players move somewhere else. This could be to a new world on a new server, or ( likely preferably to most people ), to a new server that has a copy of the current world installed on it.

We would need to find a new place to host the server, find a way to pay for the server,and have a way to choose Admins / Moderators

Option 4 - Changes to the current server

I feel that for things to continue on the current server and for everyone to be happier with the situation, that there would need to be some changes, such as;

- More Admins/Mods with more power

This would free up Memo from having to deal with everything personally, and also make mods more available to the players.

I do fear however that this would just shift things from Memo directly trying to control the world, and being frustrated with the players and getting mad at them for stupid things, to Memo trying to control the world through the mods, getting mad at them for not doing what he wants exactly , AND getting mad at the players for doing stupid things, and the mods for not dealing with them

- Not be "Memo's World"

While I agree that there needs to be a system to roughly govern people to spread out a bit and give each other room, I feel that Memo , you're too invested in keeping things restricted to your vision, that's fine for an area like spawn city, but you've extended that to the entire map via the rail system. I'm not saying that you're stopping people from building their own creations, But I've seen more and more issues with people building in the nether, or building something that conflicts with your vision of the rail system

Also I feel like you're much too proactive about things, to the point where your way of dealing with 'problems' is actually causing a larger problem than you set out to fix, such as shutting down the server entirely , or destroying something that didn't need to be destroyed to address the issue, or banning people that you suspect might have done something with no communication

Generally speaking, it would have to become The Communities' server, not Memo's server that the community can play on. If that is the case , I feel that it would be reasonable to expect that the server would not be paid for out of Memo's pocket

I feel that this change would help the players enjoyment, but more I feel that it would help to relieve the burden of responsibility that is currently on Admiral Memo's shoulders, the point would be to attempt to make it so that Memo doesn't feel like he has to patrol the entire world constantly.

Also Memo , I understand that you're saying you have extreme OCD, but I feel that you are too 'hands on' with the management of the server. There really isn't any reason that you need to be watching the server window nearly constantly. You don't need to be on call for anyone's slightest problem all the time. The server isn't going to implode if you're not watching it for more than 2 hours.

- Deal with problems that present themselves, and reacting in a reasonable manner

A problem such as the (accidental) tunneling through other people's build areas is a good example of a problem that needs to be reacted to , and I think it was generally dealt with quite well ( Banning only long enough to establish that there wasn't any malice, communicating with the person, and ultimately removing the problem )

A problem such as someone building something that is bordering on infringing onto another project (but hasn't yet) without permission ( Though the person building was under the impression that they had permission) , banning four people with no communication , and shutting down the server entirely was a bit of an over reaction to a miscommunication.

- Funding for the server

From my understanding currently Memo is paying for the server entirely out of his own pocket, If we the players expect to have more say on the running of the server, then its not reasonable at all to expect Memo to pay for the entire thing.

If there are some changes to the current situation , or if there's a move to a new server, I think that there would be a benefit to reaching out to someone / a group that runs a successful survival Minecraft server for advice on policies, and potentially mods ( such as Bukkit with plugins ) to help in running the server, and also potentially advice on hosting.

In terms of Minecraft servers , while the LRRcraft server has grown a lot in a short amount of time, it is still relatively small, the 25 player limit hasn't been an issue yet to my knowledge , and should be quite manageable.

I have really enjoyed playing on the LRRcraft server so far, I've invested a lot of time and energy into my projects and I'd hate to see that disappear. I'm also enjoying getting to know everyone else that inhabits the world I'm playing in, it's really fun and fulfilling to be able to show other people my creations, and / or collaborate on projects and see all the amazing things that everyone else has built.

I really hope we can come up with a solution that works for all the players, and helps to relieve the stress that the whole situation is causing for AdmiralMemo.

[cptsteiny]

But that's just my point. Having a different forum to put things out there will take some stress off of the chat. Right now, the only way to ask anything and be assured of an answer is to do it through chat, so you will perpetually be bombarded with questions coming from multiple people. Doing it here in this thread just doesn't work because the various requests get lost in the noise.

I really think a dedicated message board with dedicated forums and threads will help you and us to organize. This would also help us to know what is and is not on your To-do list by publishing it out there in the open. Right now we have to trust that we're on a list somewhere, but have no feedback as to whether or not this is the case. As much as you hate giving away responsibility, many people also hate not having concrete indicators of where things are in the pecking order. Knowing where they are on the list could prevent a lot of the "Screw it! He's taking too long" situations.

Having a well defined forum/message board to which we can all go to to request things I think will help you to organize by keeping requests in their proper place. And will also help the rest of us by letting us know for certain they you know about our request and are working on it.

By pushing the miscellaneous requests off of the in-game chat, we can work to minimize the disruptions to your laser-focused thought process that you are usually in when the game is online.

[Suffix]

Well stated, Sibanamush. I agree 100%.
And, as has been stated earlier, by many others - I, too, am happy to contribute financially to a stable LRRcraft server.

[Jamfalcon]

I don't play Minecraft, but just hopping in here on the topic of a message board: I've had a small one set up for my D&D group for the last six years, using Zetaboards. It's free, and if you don't bother changing around themes or anything, you can have a perfectly functional setup within half an hour or so.

[Foxmar]

I try not to bother Memo or anyone else on the server for that matter. I mostly stay in my little corner of the world... ok I do hop over to CantWearHats place now and then to see his build but that's it.
Really hoping a solution can be found so the server can come back as I really enjoy the world everyone has created.

[Lord Hosk]

I've considered just making the server limit 2: Me and someone else online and that's it. I can deal with people one-on-one.

If this is a solution you might as well just shut it back down to you and pass the saved state off to someone else because its just not playable then.

Now, if there could be a little bit of patience and order to things, I think I could deal with it. If you could say "Hey, Memo. I need a quick way to get to Spawn." I could say "Yeah, I'll put it on my list." But then, if you're all "Screw it! He's taking too long. I'll just build it myself." it becomes a problem. If there was more order and less "Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis-Iwantthis." I think I could deal better.

I just need time to think, to decompress, away from people who, probably unintentionally, are breaking me.

The trouble is, there is seemingly no way to get things on the list other than to message you in game chat, you have said repeatedly that you dont check this thread. The only option you give us is "message me in game and I will get to it"

If you said consistently "If you want something done, put it in the forum thread, I check that once a day" then people would do that.

Here's the key problem:
This server's grown well beyond what I can handle.
I need help.

I don't trust most of those who say they will help.

Also, many people who "help" end up doing things "incorrectly" , and thus, make double work for me, since I have to fix the thing first, and then do what was initially intended.

The server is too big for you to micro manage, I dont know what field your real job is in but I can guarantee that when your boss hired you he/she didn't either do your entire job for you, or tell you what to do and then stop you and say, no that's not what I meant I will just do it myself. Then there would be no point in having YOU there, since they would be doing everything.

This server was mostly manageable prior to January. Now, it's out of control, and sapping all my energy. I no longer know what to do.

You have to, HAVE TO, give up a level of control. Either let people have more freedom, or ask LRR, or the people here to take the save data and port it. You keep saying you cant keep control, everyone agrees. You need to make a choice, because it is unfair to all the people who have put countless hours into projects to have then disappear because people do things you dont like.

I tried just removing the problem people temporarily, but it didn't work, because I couldn't fix the issues without being taken away from that by some other person who wanted something else. It is VERY hard for me to change gears.

If people would stay in their little boxes so I could keep track of them, I'd be much happier. I just get very frustrated when I don't know what's going on, and people aren't telling me what they're doing. I don't do well with surprises.

But then you dont let people know what the problem was in the first place. You just "fix" things so they are the way you want then to be and then expect others to take the lesson and do likewise. Over and over again you say that people do things wrong, but over and over again people ask you what they did wrong and you say "dont worry I fixed it I was just tired"

We cant prevent new problems if we dont know what the old problem was.

And after repeated requests for clarification on 1. Where we can tell you our plans, or 2. where our little boxes are, we are all still in the dark.

We cant keep you apprised if you dont want us to tell you in chat, and you dont read this forum. We cant stay in our little boxes, if we dont know where the boundries are. You are blaming others for creating the problems Memo, but the main problem is you wont answer us when we ask you questions. We want you to keep the server going, That cant happen in its current 2 days on 7 days off state, I know I dont want to play if all my work is constantly in threat of being wiped out because someone else built a nether portal, or built with stone blocks instead of limestone.

Click to Expand

I will take the rail tunnel out to the wall and lay things out from my perspective, you can then compare that to how you see things and maybe realize the disconnect.

1. I needed resources.
2. I dug down to the "money strip" of 12 Y and started digging.
3. I realized I had mined a very long way, much longer than I should have, and stopped to ask for your advice. You told me to wait.
4. I waited for 10 minutes.
5. You TPed in and said maybe you would make it into a railway because it was so close to spawn and you wanted to make more rail connections and asked me to keep going to whatever cordinate some 200 blocks further.
6. I continued to where you said to go, and you made a stairway.
7. I asked how you wanted the rail tunnel to look, as I would get started to save you some time.
8. You said "it needs to be just two blocks high, and the walls are all wrong, they need to be stone block but I will get to it eventually.
9. I said "I can help by starting the tunnel then if its wrong, it wont be any harder to fix that if I did nothing.
10. You said "fine but if you get it wrong I will ban you"
(several days later after another server shut down)
11. I did 200 blocks from the wall toward spawn, and 100 blocks from spawn toward the wall and stopped to ask you what was right or wrong.
12. You said "just finish it, or wait, and if you finish it wrong, I will ban you"
I did nothing else with the tunnel for three days.
13. I asked if I could make a bulk purchase of rail lines and work on the tunnel.
14. You said you would get to it eventually it was on your list, or I could do it my way and if it was wrong, you would just ban me.
15. I said "ok"
16. a little while later you said in chat in response to someone else "I will be with you in a little while after I fix this monstrosity that Hosk created"
17. 10 minutes later you appeared at the base where I was working on the wall and without saying a word, killed me without saying a word.
18. I respawned and kept working, you killed me in several more ways.
19. You said "you did this all wrong"
20. I said "how, it looks just several of the other tunnels I looked at other than I used redstone blocks instead of tourches because there is lava just under the tunnel in several places.
21. You said "well to start with you missed the corners, and you have cobblestone behind the walls all over the place.
22. You shut the server down.
23. several days later you brought the server back up, the tunnel was half "finished" with these weird windows into empty caverns all over the place, and when I asked when it would be all the way finished so I could plan a trip to spawn you said "when I have time"
24. it is finished. but to me it looks really weird, and different from the other rail lines, and the rails going up the "stairs" dont work, you get half way up then the cart stalls and it shoots you back down.
25. I ignore the tunnel all together other than my one trip to spawn to get a new pick.
26. You complain in chat about how people make their rail tunnels all wrong, they dont make the corners and they use redstone blocks which is ugly and inefficient.

I dont know how you saw things, Im not in your head, but thats how they transpired from my perspective.

You see that rail line as being "the correct way" which only you could have done, and apparently I kept pestering you about it.

I didnt give two craps about the rail line other than once you said you were going to do it, I wanted it done and was willing to make it however you wanted it to be made but my repeated requests for guidance were rebuffed.

You said it yourself, the server is too big for you to manage how you expect to be able to manage it. If you want everything done your way, you will have to let other people know what the hell your way is, you cant just complain that its not done your way.

Here is my suggestion,

Click to Expand

Make it a white list server.

If you want to be white listed you have to agree to the following rules.
1. No building nether portals.
2. No building rail lines.
3. Pick a spot on the Map.Lrrcraft.com map
4. Make a request here as to your "spot"
4. No building or tunneling outside (given territory) unless you ask and receive permission from AdmiralMemo.
5. If you build out the designated area or build nether portals without prior approval you will be banned and your creation will be destroyed.
6. If you have a question dont message it to admiralmemo in game, make a post here, on the thread with the heading. Admiral Memo I would like to...

On the flip side, you will have to be clear what the given territory is, and you will have to check this thread once a day and respond.

If people feel you arent taking action quick enough,They can make another post asking for clarification or they are free to leave the server.

The burden will then be on the players to stay in their boxes and keep you informed.
The burden will be on you the admin, to check this thread once a day and update people on what you are doing with their request.

[Laserbeaks Fury]

So is the server just down permanently? Should we start looking for a new one? I don't mind when a server comes down for maintenance, I played WoW for 10 years so god knows I'm used to it. But bringing down a multiplayer server so you don't have to deal with the players seems counterintuitive.

AdmiralMemo, you state that the responsibility has gotten too much for you to handle, yet you demand every project be cleared by you, refuse to share the work load, and fly off the handle when players do their own work. It's one thing to be tasked with managing a large group of people and not be given any help, but multiple people have offered aid and you refused.

You clearly want a small population server so you can maintain full control over everything. That's fine. But when LRL started, and specifically James started playing MC on his stream, a lot of people who watched and are fans either came back or decided to start playing MC, and they wanted to play on "the LRR server".

So now you need to make a decision: do you want a small server you can maintain on your own? Then you need to trim back the whitelist and stop letting people join the server. Or do you want to be "the LRR server"? Then you need to start taking steps to installing a command structure for a larger, more robust population. That might mean stepping down completely from leadership if you are that uncomfortable sharing power. Either way, a change needs to occur, because these 2 concepts are now mutually exclusive.

[AdmiralMemo]

A ton of stuff

Sib, in very general terms, you've got it nailed.

While I'd like some variation of Option 4 to work, and I know Option 1 can't continue for certain, if Option 2 or Option 3 happen, that's just how it has to happen. Those are the absolute fall-back plans, and, as I said to James, if the server must end, I'll be glad to put someone of their choosing in charge with a copy of all of the relevant data.

Problems as I see them:

1. The LRR Community: When LRL started, I was approached by James to turn what was essentially my server, which I allowed others onto, into an official LRR Community Server. James said that if necessary, they'd just end up opening up the crew's server to the public in intervals. I thought that was a bad idea, and I tried to make the best I could of the situation. However, I was promised 2 things from James: monthly funding and help from Fugi in turning the server into something greater. While the funding isn't as important to me at this time, and won't be until mid-summer, I have yet to see either of these things materialize. Until I see either of those, it'll be hard for me to consider this truly as a LRR Community Server.

2. Mods: I would very much like to give the Mods more control. However, I ran into problems the last time I tried this over a year ago. The main reason that MineCraft orders their control permissions in a way that I really don't want. They have 4 levels of control, and they're ordered like this:

Level 1: Bypass Spawn protection
Level 2: Level 1 + Use /clear, /difficulty, /effect, /gamemode, /gamerule, /give, and /tp, and can edit command blocks
Level 3: Level 2 + Use /ban, /deop, /kick, and /op
Level 4: Level 3 + Use /stop

Clearly, Level 1 is next to useless in the grand scheme of things. However, I want to give out the powers I've highlighted in green without giving out the ones in red. The way MineCraft is programmed, I can't do that. I'm not trying to use the old problems as an excuse to not give control out. I learned from what happened, and I know where I'd like to go forward. However, MineCraft itself limits me in my choices of what I can and cannot do.

If someone can tell me how I can give out the green powers to the mods without giving them the red powers, we could go much further easier.

On the plus side, when 1.8 comes out, if I understand the /trigger command correctly, I will be able to give the Mods much more power, freedom, and control over doing things. This is a key reason why I've been trying to hold onto my sanity until the 1.8 release. Once they can do certain things for me, I can get back to the stuff that I like to do, that I want to do, that I need to do. I might be able to finish my To-Do List at some point.

3. Shut-downs and Control: No, there's no "technical" reason that it needs to be shut down for me to do any of those changes. However, what I would end up with is 2 problems. One, that while I'm in the middle of trying to repair, I get sidetracked by all of the other things that happen, like new player authorizations, and various other administrative things. Also, I work best without all the voices in my head, when I can just focus on the infrastructure. Two, that my To-Do list gets so long that it will take a while to actually get to. Then, what will happen is that months later down the line, I come to actually make the changes, and by then, players will have gotten used to it. If I make changes or get rid of it, I'd get the complaints of "Why'd you have to go and do that? It's been this way for months without any problem, and now you're just going to do stuff to it? That's not right!" This would be especially true for any new players who come in afterwards, and assume that the thing was OK because it was "always this way." They wouldn't realize that it hadn't "been this way for months without any problem" and it actually was a problem, but I hadn't been able to get around to solving it in a long time.

I'm sorry that I'm a "control freak" as it were.
"shutting down the server entirely"
I do that to shut out all the conflicting voices shouting in my head, so I can think clearly.
"destroying something that didn't need to be destroyed to address the issue"
What do you believe didn't need to be destroyed?
"banning people that you suspect might have done something with no communication"
At the time, I felt the message I gave them was sufficient communication. In retrospect, I know it wasn't. These past couple of months have been rough, and I've made many mistakes, for which I deeply regret. The stress of my parents living with me for 3 months longer than initially planned, due to delays in rebuilding the the burnt-down house has really started to sink in. I thought I could hold out for a year after the fire, and I pretty much did. But that year came and went and now I'm starting to go crazy.

The point would be to attempt to make it so that Memo doesn't feel like he has to patrol the entire world constantly.

Also Memo, I understand that you're saying you have extreme OCD, but I feel that you are too 'hands on' with the management of the server. There really isn't any reason that you need to be watching the server window nearly constantly. You don't need to be on call for anyone's slightest problem all the time. The server isn't going to implode if you're not watching it for more than 2 hours.

As DewKnight has frequently said, the largest problem with MineCraft administration is finding that someone has done something, but having no idea who did it. That is a serious problem. Not even concerning "grief" and looking on the positive side, I am annoyed to a ridiculous degree about the stadium over at -980, -460. It's not labeled. No one put it in the thread as their coordinates, that I saw. I have no idea whatsoever what's going on. I have no idea who to congratulate on the awesome job they did. I have no idea who to ask regarding whether they'd like a rail station out to their area.

A. I like patrolling the world, from an exploration stand-point. As older members of the server can tell you, I'd be frequently out on "work-sites" just inspecting, seeing what was going on. I wouldn't interfere with their builds. I'd give them some tips or try things out, sometimes, but if they didn't like it, I would never permanently change what they'd made.
I didn't start patrolling the world for (forgive my bluntness, but this is what I was thinking at the time, in my anger and insanity) "stupid n00b idiots who don't have a clue what they're doing" didn't start until January. Talk to Osprey, SmegHead, Havok, empath, and Vola. I wasn't always like how I became over the month of January. I had a fight with Jostain, but I realized I was partially wrong later. I had a fight with Xaphod, but I'm over it. (I don't feel I was wrong, in principle, but I feel my actions were not the ones that should have been taken to resolve it.) 2 incidents in a year and 3 months. That shows that I'm normally not this type of person.
B. I feel I do need to be on frequently, mainly due to what happened over New Year's. I went out on a business trip, and I was feeling pretty good. The server could deal without me for a few days. It'd be fine. I left on January 1. Everything was good. I came back on January 5, though it was a terrible day in the NorthEast that day, and I just went to sleep after I got home. I wake up on Monday, January 6, and I decide to check on the server. What do I find? Messages like: "The server's broken!" "There's too much lag!" "I don't know what happened!" "I can't play like this!" "What's wrong with the server?"
I still don't know what happened, since I haven't had a chance to read the logs.

3. "Contradictory messages ( being told to "Spread the bus out!" , and then being told to stay within 2k of spawn )"
I don't see this as contradictory at all, as there's PLENTY of room within 2K of Spawn that's "uncolonized." You don't have to go to Z=10,000 to get land. Also, the 2K from Spawn limit is just until I can get the map trimmed, and then you'll be free to go wherever. I've been trying to wait until 1.8 for this, so we can get the new block types. I found this issue after 1.7 was released and I got people saying "I want a Savannah" and me having to say "There is none within a reasonable distance because everybody decided to explore out 5000 blocks or more before 1.7 came out, but, selfishly, didn't do anything with the land they explored. (A similar issue comes with the 1.5 update regarding finding quartz in the Nether.) If everything out to 5K was "colonized" then I could reasonably say, "Yeah, sorry, you'll have to go way far out to find that stuff, since everyone's built something within 5K of spawn, but have fun exploring!"

4. Communication: Yes, I've been negligent in defining some of my rules, and I apologize for that. As I mentioned in the thread before, some of the things I would like to see are just hard to verbalize, at least to me. Also, as mentioned before in the thread, there's plenty of things that I never even though I needed rules for until they were broken. Certain rules were never put in place because, to me, they were either "the way things should be" or just "common sense." I mentioned this before in the thread, that I don't know about the "unknown unknowns" of the server.

5. The problem with Bukkit: Most of these issues can be solved by installing Bukkit, and if I had used Bukkit in the first place, a lot of the drama would have been eliminated. However, back in October of 2012, I knew none of this. I was new to running a server, and new to MineCraft itself. Bukkit was big, scary, and too much. It also seemed less "pure" to me. So I stuck with vanilla MineCraft. Various steps along the way, I've considered moving to Bukkit. However, I've declined each time, figuring that I didn't need it, when I could find a way around it in Vanilla. This was especially true once 1.4 came out with Command Blocks, and 1.5 came out with tons more redstone stuff. I've found all sorts of ways that I don't need plugins to do what I want. Also, the lag time in releases has seemed unacceptable to me each time, for the most part. (Bukkit is still on freaking 1.6 when we're on the verge of 1.8 now.)

There was a point when I decided to see if I could run Bukkit. I was working with DewKnight at the time to try to get everything to work. I got all the but one of the plugins functional (MCBans just refused to work), but I decided it was sufficient. So I copied the existing world into the Bukkit folder, and opened it up to test it. Good news: 95% of everything was just fine. Bad news: The 5% that wasn't included all of the redstone and command block stuff I set up, as well as many command I was using daily. Without those systems working, or some way to replicate them, Bukkit was a failure. I'm sure there's some way it could be repaired, but that will take time and expertise. Without help, I'll need to take more time to gain that expertise. I was working with DewKnight, but he went in for the chemo treatments and hasn't been on much lately. Fugi ran the previous server, and I believe it was Bukkit. However, despite James' promise, I haven't seen or heard from him at all. Whoever can help me with Bukkit installation, configuration, and plugins will help me a great deal in moving forward with this server, I believe.

6. The server move: I recently realized why I haven't been able to run 64-bit Java on the server: It's a 32-bit server. I could have sworn I had a 64-bit server, but I was wrong. Therefore, the RAM cap of 4 GB is fixed, and I can't go above that on this server. Thus, no matter how much RAM I add to the server itself, Java will only use a max of 4 GB, so the rest would be wasted.

Therefore, I will need to move the server to something new at some time in the future if I am to expand it anywhere beyond its current state, which it terribly laggy and requires at least daily reboots even in the best of times. I've been trying a few times to get a new server up and running so I could move the information over. However, each time, it's failed for various reasons. I think I'm going to need to try that again.

7. Funding: You're mostly right. Over the past year, I've received a few donations from several players to help me out, but it's been mostly just me. The server will run until mid-summer on my funds alone, and those that donated help me out stretch it to somewhere in the fall, I think. (I need to re-run the numbers, though, because when all but 1 of the donators donated, we were running on the old specs of the server, which were much lower, and thus cheaper.)

8. Forum: As mentioned, I have no skills in installing, configuring, or running a forum on the server. Now, a few months back, there was the question of whether to make a new thread and let this one die. I felt that it would probably be best, since the first 116 pages are about Fugi's 2 servers, and not this one. However, the consensus of the players at the time was to not start a new thread for this server, so I didn't and left everything here. That may have been a mistake and short-sightedness on our parts, but I did it because that's what the people of the server wanted. Should I raise that question again? Should we branch off a new thread?

In summary, I hope this explains things, at the very least, and I hope we can resolve this in the near future.

Edit: This post doesn't take into account the 6 posts that came in while I was writing it. I'l make a separate post to respond to those, unless they're rehashing what Sib said.

Edit 2: After reading the intervening posts, some things need to be addressed, but they will be addressed at some time other than 3:30 AM.

[Necabo]

Hey Memo,

I know it has been hard on you with all the stress on the server funneling into you. And from what I understand it has become a bit unmanageable, which is not unexpected looking at the size of the map.

Now I do not know how if this could even work, but could you export some of the bigger projects like the bionic monument etc (or anything else, maybe through a request system). generate a new world; which enables the new biomes without having to travel outside the existing map. And putting the preserved project back with MCedit or something. Also maybe moving the main village a bit connecting to a nether hub might prevent the spawn chunks from getting overloaded, as the spawn village is always generated it will create a bit of lag.

Pro's:
-fresh start for a community server
-new biomes
-more managable size to start
-possibility of creating a nether hub to spread everyone out more and relieve chunk loading stress
-flushing of old projects/land nobody wants anymore but is still "claimed"

Cons:
-you are probably attached to the server as it looks now
-spawn city stuff, no clue what is easy enough to recreate/bring over
-your rail systems are amazing, would hate to see it go
-investment in projects by you and people (if possible it could be transferred)


Like I said, I like having and being on a community server. But it needs a bit of an overhaul.
For my suggestion to work you do need a separate subforum here in which we can have:
-you can request access to server: make a request tread with username and close thread as soon as he/she is whitelisted
-Separate treads for different issues like building violations and community projects
-a 'save my project' tread in which projects to be carried over can be requested
-some faith in people, having the need to be at least subscribed to the LRR forum to be white listed is a good step in the right direction.

The subforum will also help other members to communicate with each other, instead of only through you. And you can ask for help/funds more easily.

My two cents here, I really hope we can make this a pleasant experience again for all of us. And don't forget Memo: you are not alone, there are plenty good people around.

Also maybe other people can comment if they like this idea (I kinda stole it from what hermitcraft did last year, but hey I think it may be worth it).


PS do pester James' for funds, he may have just forgotten about it and I think he is really enthusiastic about the server

[cptsteiny]

It looks like we may be waiting a bit more for 1.8

Here's a post direct from the Mojang site today.

They're releasing 1.7.5 tomorrow, and the post states they already know 1.7.6 will probably be coming in late March. That puts 1.8 out in April at the earliest.

I don't know if we can just stretch the current situation that long before someone loses their sanity or the entire community collapses.

Perhaps one way around the Mods and commands issue is to give Mods access to all the commands, but give them a list that they are allowed to use. If they use an inappropriate command, permaban them!