Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Duckay » 24 Sep 2011, 04:11

In a way, I really like that because it gave the sense that you were just a part of the story, that the people in your party were "real" people with their own journeys.

On the other hand, you are totally right, and it had the very strong side effect of making it feel like in the end, the only thing you did was press buttons while the story went on without you. I'd like to see a game that managed a solid half-way point.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Geoff_B » 24 Sep 2011, 13:31

I think where they went wrong was in hyping up the "rise to power any way you can" angle and saying that decisions we make at the start would affect the later parts.

Final Fantasy 12 had a similar sort of "main-character-is-a-bystander" angle but I hated that one for different reasons.

But this is a thread about Mass Effect 3 so I strongly hope that it doesn't go down the same route and we can actually make decisions that matter. Especially when importing our save games :D
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Duckay » 24 Sep 2011, 15:18

That I will heartily agree with. I really hope they learn from the kerfuffle that was importing saves into DAII (where death is apparently not a major concern), and sort it out in Mass Effect 3. Although ME2 was fine, in that regard, so possibly I'm being unnecessarily pessimistic.

I hope I get to punch someone in ME3.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby LogicSword » 24 Sep 2011, 23:39

I just want the trigger buttons (when paragon or renegade flash up on the screen) to be [Paragon] hug and [Renegade] punch for every single decision. More games need a hug button.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby JackSlack » 25 Sep 2011, 00:36

LogicSword wrote:I just want the trigger buttons (when paragon or renegade flash up on the screen) to be [Paragon] hug and [Renegade] punch for every single decision. More games need a hug button.


I DIG THIS.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Duckay » 25 Sep 2011, 00:42

LogicSword wrote:I just want the trigger buttons (when paragon or renegade flash up on the screen) to be [Paragon] hug and [Renegade] punch for every single decision.


...

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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby JackSlack » 12 Oct 2011, 20:50

LF3M 2 defend galaxy

I'm really conflicted by this. I actually used to be a supporter of Mass Effect multi-player; I saw no reason why it couldn't work as a 3 vs. 3 deathmatch sort of thing. I was all READY to be a deadly engineer on the field.

But it's so transparently being included just so that EA can whack on an online pass and demand a cut of Gamestop's used games sales. Which is a stupid strategy which I wish they'd quit.

... so, have we got 3 Xbox players on these forums who want to defend the galaxy? I know I wanna do it, but I want to do it with friends.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Duckay » 12 Oct 2011, 20:57

No can do, I'm a philistine who likes to control Shepard with a keyboard.

(...anyone with me?)
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby JackSlack » 12 Oct 2011, 20:59

I know. Damn our respective choices for game-playing! I'd love to play with you.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Metcarfre » 12 Oct 2011, 21:09

It's theoretically possible I could be done the others by the time it releases...
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Drinnik » 13 Oct 2011, 04:20

Anyone got any feelings towards the newly-announced co-op multiplayer?

I think it sounds interesting, 4 player co-op that can tie directly into the single player game.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Gordon Fearman » 13 Oct 2011, 07:37

JackSlack wrote:But it's so transparently being included just so that EA can whack on an online pass and demand a cut of Gamestop's used games sales. Which is a stupid strategy which I wish they'd quit.

Oh is it? Is that why Bioware created a team just to make multiplayer games that wouldn't interrupt the development of their single player games? And this has nothing to do with the fact that tons of gamers have said they wanted a Mass Effect 3 multiplayer? And the fact that this is the first Mass Effect where this can be easily integrated with the story? It has nothing to do with any of these things?
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby RobertMc123 » 13 Oct 2011, 08:58

Gordon Fearman wrote:Oh is it? Is that why Bioware created a team just to make multiplayer games that wouldn't interrupt the development of their single player games? And this has nothing to do with the fact that tons of gamers have said they wanted a Mass Effect 3 multiplayer? And the fact that this is the first Mass Effect where this can be easily integrated with the story? It has nothing to do with any of these things?


Completely agree, just watched the little video Bioware put out about the Multiplayer and it seems pretty interesting. It's worth a look, if you are going to get Mass Effect 3, were you going to wait and get it pre-owned? If so, then yes you'll need to buy the online pass you jackass, every game with multiplayer is doing it now. Hell Space Marine does it and it's multiplayer is only so-so, not good. So yeah buy the game and enjoy the single player and multiplayer. If this has solidifed your decision to not buy the game, then nothing anyone says will change your mind, but I was sold on Mass Effect 3 the moment the credits rolled on Mass Effect 2.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby JackSlack » 13 Oct 2011, 13:50

Gordon Fearman wrote:Oh is it? Is that why Bioware created a team just to make multiplayer games that wouldn't interrupt the development of their single player games?


This one I grant you. It's nice that EA have apparently enough respect for Bioware that even though they're applying the one-size fits all logic of multiplayer onto the studio, they've at least granted them more resources for it. I do approve of that.

And this has nothing to do with the fact that tons of gamers have said they wanted a Mass Effect 3 multiplayer?


And conversely, that tons of gamers had treated the idea as toxic? I don't have the numbers to say if more gamers opposed it or were for it, but it's a divisive issue, I think that's clear.

And the fact that this is the first Mass Effect where this can be easily integrated with the story?


Oh, BS. That's pure marketing spin from Bioware. Here, watch.

Fake Marketing Text wrote:Mass Effect 2 Feature List -- New Multiplayer Co-Op Mode! Play as the members of Team Orion, an elite squad of spies and commandos under Cerberus. As Shepard's squad desperately searches for an answer to the Collector's assaults on human colonies, the Illusive Man has tasked you with uncovering crucial intelligence for his operations. Play with up to three other friends in co-op missions that will see you fly to the far reaches of the galaxy and find the hidden truth behind the Collectors. Completing missions unlocks new bonus-missions in single player as Shepard can now act on the intelligence you've provided!


There, see? If they'd wanted to, they could easily have wound a co-op multiplayer mode into the second one. It wouldn't have required much alteration of the single player story at all. A few bonus missions here and there, and you're done.

It has nothing to do with any of these things?


Sure, it might. But let's not overlook EA's behaviour of late. They've made no secret of their determination to employ online passes in all titles as an effort to dent second-hand sales. It's been loud enough that Jim Sterling predicted online in Mass Effect 3 purely because he figured EA would want to put its online pass in. Not that they could have done it without it (Mass Effect 2 had the Cerberus Pass) but this seems to be the model they like the most.

The multiplayer may be good. I'm hunting around already for co-op partners on Xbox live, and the idea of playing a Krogan Engineer is appealing to me. (Quarian moreso, but they've not been announced as playable yet.) To answer Robert, I don't only intend to buy it new, I have the collector's edition pre-ordered. But I do not doubt for a moment this directive comes from EA, not Bioware, and the motive is the online pass.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby JackSlack » 13 Oct 2011, 19:53

... also, I realized: Sentinel and Infiltrator would be an insanely powerful one two punch. Infiltrators can really wade into combat easily, and have good options for taking down shields, barriers and armour. Infiltrators need distance, but are good against shields and armour, and can do crazy damage. Between the two of them, I think there's little they couldn't handle.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Gordon Fearman » 13 Oct 2011, 21:28

JackSlack wrote:
Gordon Fearman wrote:And this has nothing to do with the fact that tons of gamers have said they wanted a Mass Effect 3 multiplayer?

And conversely, that tons of gamers had treated the idea as toxic? I don't have the numbers to say if more gamers opposed it or were for it, but it's a divisive issue, I think that's clear.

It's clear now, but I doubt it was clear before the announcement. I doubt as many people would ask for a feature to be kept out of a game as would ask for a feature to be put in one.

JackSlack wrote:
Gordon Fearman wrote:And the fact that this is the first Mass Effect where this can be easily integrated with the story?

Oh, BS. That's pure marketing spin from Bioware. Here, watch.

Fake Marketing Text wrote:Mass Effect 2 Feature List -- New Multiplayer Co-Op Mode! Play as the members of Team Orion, an elite squad of spies and commandos under Cerberus. As Shepard's squad desperately searches for an answer to the Collector's assaults on human colonies, the Illusive Man has tasked you with uncovering crucial intelligence for his operations. Play with up to three other friends in co-op missions that will see you fly to the far reaches of the galaxy and find the hidden truth behind the Collectors. Completing missions unlocks new bonus-missions in single player as Shepard can now act on the intelligence you've provided!

There, see? If they'd wanted to, they could easily have wound a co-op multiplayer mode into the second one. It wouldn't have required much alteration of the single player story at all. A few bonus missions here and there, and you're done.

I said easily. This isn't easy since a Cerberus squad would only be made of humans. The only reason aliens joined Cerberus in 2 was because Shepard was at the helm. Sure you could do multiplayer in 2, but the scope would be far more limited. Also, multiplayer is supposed to have an effect on the single player. I assume this is what they originally wanted. How would multiplayer affect the outcome of the suicide mission?

JackSlack wrote:
Gordon Fearman wrote:It has nothing to do with any of these things?

Sure, it might. But let's not overlook EA's behaviour of late. They've made no secret of their determination to employ online passes in all titles as an effort to dent second-hand sales. It's been loud enough that Jim Sterling predicted online in Mass Effect 3 purely because he figured EA would want to put its online pass in. Not that they could have done it without it (Mass Effect 2 had the Cerberus Pass) but this seems to be the model they like the most.

Couldn't they just put an online pass on it? Why does it need multiplayer?

...I wonder how long we can have a discussion before Ottoman jumps in to accuse me of trolling.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby JackSlack » 13 Oct 2011, 22:04

Gordon Fearman wrote:It's clear now, but I doubt it was clear before the announcement. I doubt as many people would ask for a feature to be kept out of a game as would ask for a feature to be put in one.


Neither of us have the numbers on this. Suffice to say, my experience before this has been with seeing players fearing that Mass Effect is being turned into nothing more than a slightly story-heavy shooter, and that multiplayer would be one more step down that road. I've seen less happiness, more fear over the confirmation.

I said easily. This isn't easy since a Cerberus squad would only be made of humans. The only reason aliens joined Cerberus in 2 was because Shepard was at the helm. Sure you could do multiplayer in 2, but the scope would be far more limited. Also, multiplayer is supposed to have an effect on the single player. I assume this is what they originally wanted. How would multiplayer affect the outcome of the suicide mission?


That is easily. It's true my one would be human only, but it's a very simple, viable way to have brought story into the multiplayer mode. Their claims that this was 'the first time it made sense' simply don't pass a sniff test. It's marketing spin and nothing but.

As for 'how do you affect a suicide mission'? Simple: Ensure it succeeds. That they may still die, but they'll die for a purpose.

Couldn't they just put an online pass on it? Why does it need multiplayer?

...I wonder how long we can have a discussion before Ottoman jumps in to accuse me of trolling.


They could have, like they did with ME2. My guess is that the Cerberus Pass didn't see a huge take-up, and as a result Bioware have decided multiplayer has more potential for profit.

And if he does, I'll back you up. You're not trolling. We just disagree.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby RobertMc123 » 14 Oct 2011, 01:37

Considering EA's recent woes, do you really think they tell Bioware what to do? Aside from ES Sports, Bioware is their top money maker, I think if they tried to dictate anything to Bioware it would be: "Please make more games". And the online pass is being added in a lot of games. Games companies hate the pre-owned market and they want to stop it, the pass makes sense to them. I don't see anyone complaining about the pass in Arkham City. No but people are starting to bitch about Mass Effect because they want to appear cool, seriously, some people on the internet act like the Goth kids in South Park. "Pfft, you guys are total conformists with your Mass Effect, I am going to play this RPG from Japan that you'be never heard of, in the original Japanese, I have no idea what's going on in it but it has to be cool."
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby JackSlack » 14 Oct 2011, 03:20

RobertMc123 wrote:Considering EA's recent woes, do you really think they tell Bioware what to do?


Yes.

And the online pass is being added in a lot of games. Games companies hate the pre-owned market and they want to stop it, the pass makes sense to them. I don't see anyone complaining about the pass in Arkham City.


Wait, what?

<google>

Goddamit, them too? Geeze. Are there any game publishers left without a desire to pull this kind of shit?
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby RobertMc123 » 14 Oct 2011, 04:52

JackSlack wrote:
RobertMc123 wrote:Considering EA's recent woes, do you really think they tell Bioware what to do?


Yes.

And the online pass is being added in a lot of games. Games companies hate the pre-owned market and they want to stop it, the pass makes sense to them. I don't see anyone complaining about the pass in Arkham City.


Wait, what?

<google>

Goddamit, them too? Geeze. Are there any game publishers left without a desire to pull this kind of shit?


Again I ask, what shit? The online pass makes sense to them and to anyone who is going to buy the game. I have no problem buying the game new and getting the online pass. It makes no difference to me. And if anyone pulls the "I'm a poor student card", then I say this "buy less games". Mass Effect 2 had the Cerberus Network and I had no problem with it, Rage had the pass to get extra sewer missions, Space Marine had a pass to level past a certain number in their multiplayer, Uncharted 3 is going to have an online pass, Arkham City will have one, White Knight Chronicles 2 had an online pass, it is the way things are going and I have no issue with it. Games Publishers are desperate to stop the pre-owned market because they make no money off it, and until such times as we are all buying games digitally with no packaged media, then this will continue. It's no big deal.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Geoff_B » 14 Oct 2011, 04:57

RobertMc123 wrote:Games Publishers are desperate to stop the pre-owned market because they make no money off it, and until such times as we are all buying games digitally with no packaged media, then this will continue. It's no big deal.


It will probably be a big deal for games retailers like Gamestop and Game (UK) who practically live on pre-owned. But then again they've killed off their PC sections anyway so they might not be affected for a while. If it spreads to consoles though...
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby JackSlack » 14 Oct 2011, 05:10

RobertMc123 wrote:Again I ask, what shit? The online pass makes sense to them and to anyone who is going to buy the game. I have no problem buying the game new and getting the online pass. ... It's no big deal.


It's bullshit. The end person who winds up getting screwed isn't the person buying it used, and it isn't even the retailers. No, it's the guy selling his old games -- because the end result is going to be to drive down the cost of used games, and ergo the resale value. (Said trade ins often going to buy, y'know, new games.)

And either way, it's my damn game. If I choose to resell it, then I can, and y'know what? Every other business somehow manages to handle the existence of the second-hand market. I've not seen book publishers offer one-off codes to download exclusive interviews with the author.

I'm sorry, but no. The online pass bit is yet another stroke in the gaming industry's reaching for the bottom of the barrel. It's enough to actually make me sympathetic to Gamestop since at least they aren't actively screwing over the customer in their petty market share plo... oh wait.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Geoff_B » 14 Oct 2011, 08:43

Yeah I'll be surprised if there isn't a total boycott of PC games by Gamestop and Game and the like within the next couple of years.
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby Gordon Fearman » 14 Oct 2011, 09:16

I was really confused what the deal with the online pass was and why anyone would have a problem with it. 'Cause pirates crack past that shit in the first 6 hours. It never occurred to me that people still bought physical copies of games. Go Steam?
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Re: Mass Effect 3 (Also Mass Effect General I suppose?)

Postby JackSlack » 14 Oct 2011, 15:04

@Gordon: Really, online passes are aimed at consoles, less so than PC. The goal isn't to dent piracy, it's to claim a slice of the used game market. Which is huge.

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