*sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby ThrashJazzAssassin » 20 Aug 2011, 01:43

I'm assuming people noticed this:

http://notch.tumblr.com/post/9038258448/hey-bethesda-lets-settle-this

Notch wants to settle the dispute with a 3-on-3 Quake 3 team deathmatch. Which is remarkably like the plot of a sketch I wrote a couple of months ago. And then rejected because it was too implausible.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Metcarfre » 20 Aug 2011, 05:47

Well, he has a knack for self-publicity, if nothing else.

He also must be balls-to-the-wall crazy.

He IS aware these sorts of statements can be used against him in a court of law, right? Is he even MAKING a game?
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Vigafre » 20 Aug 2011, 08:05

Besides that, aren't challenges like this supposed to be given by the suing party? Bethesda could flatout deny the challenge and continue suing, but someone getting sued would, most of the time, rather not be sued.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Gordon Fearman » 21 Aug 2011, 08:17

ecocd wrote:
theDreamer wrote:The fact that notch is milking this trying to look like a itty bitty victim (I mean, don't they have similar amounts of capital these days? the dudes rich) is a little sad.

$60 million revenue isn't the biggest studio in the world, but there are much smaller. I think he's still in the mindset of being a small indie developer. He wasn't anticipating the fact that as soon as anyone gets money there's someone that's going to sue you for some of it.

He hired Jerry Holkins to write for it. Yes, he's still an indie developer. And as far as I know, he doesn't have a publisher which makes Mojang, by definition, an indie studio.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby theDreamer » 21 Aug 2011, 09:09

The key part is "small."
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Geoff_B » 21 Aug 2011, 12:39

Isn't offering to settle via a quake match kind of like an Uwe Boll response?
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Ed. » 21 Aug 2011, 15:01

he had offered bethesda a way out of the bad PR it will look like the big guy stomping the little guy
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Vigafre » 21 Aug 2011, 15:30

It's not like their suing Mojang into oblivion, it's just trademark protection. Goddammit people.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby empath » 21 Aug 2011, 15:48

No, it's just stymieing the development of Mojang's second-ever project, who technically still has to release its FIRST product. Goddamit, Husker. ;)

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Vigafre wrote:It's not like their suing Mojang into oblivion, it's just trademark protection. Goddammit people.


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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Arius » 04 Oct 2011, 13:21

*babump*

An article written by Russ Pitts.

http://kotaku.com/5846111/mojang-v-bethesda-or-i-hate-it-when-mommy-and-daddy-fight

Excerpt:
Article wrote:If one were to attempt to judge based solely on Twitter and the blogs, Zenimax would appear to be the bad guy here. Notch, perhaps attempting to bolster that perception, has put on his hurt face, claiming Zeni is "picking on the little guy." But after looking at Mojang's "Scrolls" patent application, I'm not so sure the case is as black and white as many would seem to believe. Specifically this part, referring to Mojang's claim of trademark on the use of "scrolls" for "radio and television programs and shows":

The application covers:

Entertainment services in the form of electronic, computer and video games provided by means of the Internet and other remote communications device; internet games (non downloadable); organising of games; games (not downloadable) played via a global computer network; education and entertainment services in the form of cinematographic, televisual, digital and motion picture films, radio and television programs and shows; preparation, editing and production of cinematographic, televisual, digital and motion picture films, radio and television programs; entertainment services in the form of electronic, computer and video games provided by means of the Internet, mobile telephone and other remote communications device.


In other words, Mojang intends to own the word "scrolls" in pretty much every form of visual entertainment media, not just in videogames. This means that, if the trademark is upheld, the company could rightly take action against anyone else using the word "scrolls" in any form of media whatsoever. Now, that would only be a problem if you were a successful media company planning to use the word "scrolls" in some form of entrainment media … Oh wait … that's right. If you're Zenimax, this trademark fucks you. Hard.

The section applying for trademarks on the use of the word "scrolls" in videogames is similarly broad (and potentially harmful to Zeni), covering:

Computer games; video games; computer software; computer and video games software; computer software downloaded or downloadable; computer software publications downloaded; interactive entertainment software; data recorded electronically from the Internet; data recorded in machine readable form from the Internet; discs, tapes, cartridges, CD-ROMs and other magnetic, electronic or optical media, all bearing computer games software or video games; electronic amusement apparatus for use with television receivers; electronic games apparatus; home video game machines.


Here, too, the trademark application covers everything. Meaning that anyone making any kind of game that contains the word "scrolls" could be the target of legal action by Mojang. Including companies who've been using the word "scrolls" in their games for years. Yes, even Zenimax/Bethesda. And if you're Zenimax/Bethesda, as soon as you read that your balls start to creep into your throat.


Emphasis mine.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Matt » 04 Oct 2011, 13:28

On the flipside of the above, Mojang also, apparently offered to abandon that trademark application when Zeni threatened legal action.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113450-Mojang-Offered-Up-Scrolls-Trademark-Bethsoft-Said-No

This is one deep freaking rabbit hole.

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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Fugiman » 04 Oct 2011, 13:34

As far as I've been able to tell, this entire legal fight is due to shoddy trademark law. Zenimax HAS to enforce its trademark. Now, I don't know if that means they have to go to court, and I doubt they have to win, but if they don't at least make the attempt they lose the trademark.

In my eyes, Zenimax isn't really doing anything wrong, they are just trying to keep their trademark alive. Notch going and making all of this public seems like the worst part of the "fight".
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Arius » 04 Oct 2011, 13:37

One big problem is that a lot of the information we get out of this comes from Notch. I'd like to see a representative from Zeni step up and post their side. If even just to cut down on the PR damage. I would say that Notch has damaged Mojang's PR as much as Zenimax's by being so public and kinda being a dick about it, but I've been on the Minecraft forums.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Dutch guy » 04 Oct 2011, 13:50

Here, too, the trademark application covers everything. Meaning that anyone making any kind of game that contains the word "scrolls" could be the target of legal action by Mojang. Including companies who've been using the word "scrolls" in their games for years. Yes, even Zenimax/Bethesda. And if you're Zenimax/Bethesda, as soon as you read that your balls start to creep into your throat.


This is bullshit, prior use does NOT fall under any NEW trademark application. Moreover, Prior widespread use of the word Scrolls in various media means this trademark is unenforceable and a MASSIVE wast of money (Trademarks are expensive to register and maintain)

(I've recently had a lecture about these things from someone who does these things for a living, he confirmed this is how it works)
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby empath » 04 Oct 2011, 18:49

Aye, nothing personal against Russ, but it's pretty weak journalism to write an article about trademark issues and trademark law and get the law part completely wrong. Research the subject before making suppositions, or at least research after the suppositions are formed to confirm/deny their validity.

And I'd already understood these limitations of trademark law that Dutch is pointing out, thanks to the amusing little 'Monster Cable vs. Blue Jeans Cable' tempest in a teapot. :)
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Geoff_B » 07 Oct 2011, 04:29

And then there's this
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Darkobra » 07 Oct 2011, 04:34

So when can I fast-forward to the part where Zenimax wins and Notch goes on a clock tower with a sniper rifle?
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Gordon Fearman » 07 Oct 2011, 07:36

I imagine it'll look something like this.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Arius » 18 Oct 2011, 13:28

So, the court case hasn't started yet, but Mojang won an interim injunction aimed at stopping them from using the name during proceedings. Now the fanboys are acting as if the entire case is over and Mojang won.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Darkobra » 18 Oct 2011, 13:40

Thanks for clearing that up. I actually had a fanboy message me earlier and leave it at "Notch won." No small amount of frustration there!
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Geoff_B » 18 Oct 2011, 13:59

It probably just means they can use it in the court hearing without getting sued every time.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Master Gunner » 18 Oct 2011, 14:12

They'd be allowed to use it in the court hearing without getting sued anyways, otherwise would just be silly. This means that they can still call the game "Scrolls" on their website and in publicity material until the court makes its decision.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Geoff_B » 18 Oct 2011, 14:16

Well this whole thing is starting to get a bit silly IMO.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby empath » 18 Oct 2011, 15:08

Welcome to the wonderful world of Trademark, Copyright and Intellectual Property law; I'm Franz Kafka, and I'll be your tour guide.
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Re: *sigh* Oh, BethSoft....

Postby Arius » 18 Oct 2011, 16:25

I've been trying to explain what an interim injunction means on the Minecraft forums... I'm afraid I may have lost my mind at some point in the process.
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