The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby JackSlack » 26 Oct 2012, 23:36

OK, I'm done with it now.

First, the non-spoilery bit: I was actually kinda underwhelmed by this one. I thought they made some really unfortunate storytelling choices, and missed out on chances that would have made for more original and interesting scenarios. It's also the first game of the series that really began to chafe for me under how restrictive the game really is. None of the emotional scenes rang out hard for me like the previous episodes did, either. So... yeah. This one's the first down-note of the series for me.

Spoilers follow:

OK, I am fucking pissed about their decision to have Clementine captured at the end of episode 4. PISSED OFF BEYOND ALL BELIEF.

This was the game's big mature selling point: It's not a game about saving the girl; it's a game about raising her. It's been praised again and again and again for it, and deservingly so! Why the fuck would you remove, from your game's climax, the best relationship, the most interesting dynamic, and to do so in a way that undermines the basic themes of your story? Just... gah! This is not good storytelling, Telltale!

Secondly, I get the irony of Crawford being dead all this time; which is kind of neat, I mean, the town's survivors all terrified of an empire that died a long time ago. But the end result is to deny the player a new experience and a new challenge. Remember how much fun episode 2 (the high point of the series to me) was? A big part of that was the presence of human antagonists. The game threw away a chance to do this again, and I'm saddened by that. The zombies are not the bad guys in a good zombie story. They're the cage. The bottle. The constricting force, throwing the characters into conflict. Now, I mean, that's still there. Kenny and Ben, Kenny and Lee. Sure. But this feels like a missed opportunity.

The Chuck thing is total bullshit but it's not the worst 'on rails' aspect of the episode, and this is what really is pissing me off. The biggest aspect is this: Nothing you do can stop the 'let's find a boat' thrust of the plot.

THE BOAT PLAN IS SHIT.

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN SHIT.

WHY CAN I NOT POINT THIS OUT?

This boat plan has no logical end-state, beyond us starving in the middle of the ocean. Don't get me wrong, the idea of say, a house boat, something we can float in a little off the coast, making it impossible to be reached by zombies, hey! Good thought. We make shore for brief searches for supplies, etc. But that's not this boat plan. It's a foolhardy plan created by a madman. Why the hell can I not point this out, and help Clementine find her parents? GAH. Throughout the whole episode, this bugged the LIFE out of me.

Mandatory choice listing:

1. I killed the kid. I couldn't do that to Kenny. Of course I couldn't.

2. Actually, here's a choice I'm curious about from others: I didn't ask Molly about her past. You get two options to ask her, and one to rudely ignore it, I did none of them. I stayed silent. None of my business.

3. I voted the FUCK to cut Ben loose. I have hated Ben for two episodes now, and believe me, the idea of sending that asshole packing is sweet music to my ears. But I also pulled him up. No way. Not like that. He does NOT get to go out with any semblance of nobility, sacrificing himself so we can get away. I won't let him.

4. Which, I admit, makes it a bit weird that I got the whole gang behind me at the end, too, including him. Mainly it was because, well, this seemed to be the big nakama moment. And Clementine DID stand up for him.

What other decisions did I miss?
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Kapol » 27 Oct 2012, 13:33

To Ptang:

It could also largely depend on how you treat Clem around him. Some of the choices, like if to take the food out of the car or not, could make a difference as well. It might be less that I made him happy and more how I treated Clem.

To Jack:

I asked her about her past just in case it was something that could end up hurting the group. You're right. It's none of our business. But at the same time, if she turned into a drug addict (as her video kind of implied) or something similar, she could turn into a risk that the group doesn't need.

For railroading... I kinda agree. As I mentioned in my original rant, the two things that pissed me off the most were the forced bite at the end, and the fact that even though I killed every non-story zombie (since you can't kill the one that almost grabs Clem), Chuck still died. That's absolute bullshit.

I didn't care much for episode 2. It was good, but the external conflict was a bit meh. Especially since it was a situation where I knew from the beginning who and what they were. I much prefered episode 3's internal conflicts and the major impact on the group it had. This episode kinda had some of the with Chuck and such. But it did lack the punch. I still say it's likely my favorite, or at least one of my favorites, so far.

I do agree that it's annoying you can't point out the boat plan is shit. Especially since the boat given won't be able to go far anyways, and they're fucked if a good storm goes through.

I believe based on episode 1-4 that Telltale will be able to do 5 in a way that allows us to have some of Lee and Clem's relationship even with the kidnapping. Given the person who took her let her talk to begin with suggests to me he might be taunting Lee, and as such they might be able to speak. But I'm interested to see how it plays out anyways.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby JackSlack » 27 Oct 2012, 19:44

Kapol: It's pretty clear even from the video that she's covering for her sister. I never thought she was a risk to the group.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Kapol » 27 Oct 2012, 20:07

While I didn't think she was a risk either, it's still not a good idea to just assume she's not. I don't remember much from the video other then the fact she was sleeping with the doctor for drugs though. Still, it was pretty obvious for the longest time she was connection to the town, which in my opinion only made her seem more suspicious. While I doubted she'd do anything, I still felt it was best to understand the whole situation.

Mind you, I don't think that was a very important choice myself. *shrug*
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Vigafre » 27 Oct 2012, 23:51

I've been watching some people play this game (cuz this isn't my kind of game) and I just wanted to add some stuff. Some of the following information is from reading plot synopses so avoid if you wish.

Kapol:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but she wasn't having sex for drugs, she was having sex for insulin, cuz her sister was diabetic.

Other stuff:
I don't really understand your connection with Chuck's abandonment scene and his death. He obviously got away from that scene cuz you find him in the sewer. He might have been overwhelmed in that scenario.

The group you end up with at the end depends on whether you show your bite (Omid and Crista), your past actions with Kenny or (if you say Clem is your family) Kenny's family, and for Ben, pretty you just have to mention Clem caring for him.

Hanging man on bell is Oberson.


I'd say other stuff I've read but I feel I'm saying too much.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Ptangmatik » 28 Oct 2012, 00:52

Ah, Vigafree:

The thing about Chuck's death is that he would have had the common sense not to get separated from the group, he PARTICULARLY wouldn't if there were no zombies between him and them (as in, Lee shot them all)

You're right about the diabetes thing, but I don't think (I may be remembering it wrong) insulin was mentioned specifically in the cut-scene about it, just that her sister would die without it (Which for all you know could be her lying to the doctor). It's possible to misinterpret it if you don't then talk to Molly about it, but there's no way a drug addict could be as athletic as her.


Vigafre wrote:
I'd say other stuff I've read but I feel I'm saying too much.


You may be right, even now I can feel the CIA closing in...

(Your opinion is always welcome. Always. (As is everyone else's))

Oh God.... The brackets are nesting.....
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Vigafre » 28 Oct 2012, 07:49

The reason I figured I was saying too much is because I thought you guys might not want a bunch of wiki stuff so you could keep speculating.

Ptang:
I can understand the logic there, but you weren't shooting zombies to make sure Chuck could come with you. You were shooting zombies so they wouldn't get Clementine. Chuck wasn't even the concern. And who's to say there weren't any zombies off screen?

And I'm pretty sure Logan specifically mentioned insulin on the video tape. I'll have to double check.


Edit: Okay, you're right. Insulin wasn't mentioned (the Wiki did though, so I guess they were assuming). She still probably wasn't a drug addict, otherwise, yeah, she wouldn't be nearly in the same shape she is now.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Kapol » 28 Oct 2012, 10:02

Alright, a couple things:

I was using drug addict as an example. There were a variety of other reasons for her to be getting drugs, some of which could be bad for the group and some of which could be good for her (such as if her sister was still alive and we could help). It was more a situation where if I remember we didn't know what she was getting the drugs for exactly. We just knew she used to live in Crawford and was sleeping with the doctor for drugs. I'm not sure how the scene with her plays out if you don't ask though.

For Oberson, last I read the wiki (which was to look for that guy in particular to see if he was related to the main series), it said they thought he looked like Oberson. Meaning it's a possibility but not absolute. Important difference there. It's possible he had a brother or something similar.

For zombies and Chuck, you could see a fairly wide view of the area when shooting zombies to save Clem. There weren't any around when I finished shooting them besides the one Chuck kills anyways. The zombies between Leen and Clem then reappear in the cutscene reguardless if you killed them all or not. It's not about saving Chuck, but Chuck dies because he splits up due to the zombies. Which I killed.

For the group that comes with you, it makes sense for a lot of them. But there are a lot of ways to interact with Kenny's family. I sided against him more then once. The one that comes to mind is the stupid scene in the first episode where you first meet Lilly's group and her father is yelling to throw stuff out. It would make sense, but I'm not sure that's all there is to it myself. *shrug* Possible though. I just don't trust wiki information entirely because, well, it can be edited by anyone with an opinion.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Ptangmatik » 28 Oct 2012, 10:24

Kapol:
ep1, I went consistently in favour of checking Duck over, not kicking him out
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Kapol » 28 Oct 2012, 10:28

Ptang: As was I. That part was more of a reply to Vig. Though, out of curiousity, did you save Duck or the other guy during the tractor scene? Because I really am not sure what you did different then Jack and I to get it different.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Vigafre » 28 Oct 2012, 10:46

Kapol:
In the video tape, Molly DOES explicitly say she needs the medicine for her sister. I'm pretty sure Lee would believe her regardless. I don't remember Lee suspecting anything different.

About Oberson, I checked the wiki yesterday, and they said it was confirmed as Oberson. They say it is confirmed in the game files ("as shown in meshes", whatever that means), but I don't know what Telltale has said about that.

About Chuck, that's fair. I guess I didn't notice they were the same zombies. I kind of didn't realize it cuz the guy I was watching only shot at the story zombie.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Kapol » 28 Oct 2012, 11:35

Alright, I'm starting to think that spoilers are a bit silly at this point. but to keep in tradition:

She may mention that it's for her sister, but that doesn't mean she's telling the truth. As Ptang said, she could easily be lying. You can't really say Lee doesn't suspect anything because Lee is meant to be shaped by the player character. That's one of the main aspects of the game with the player making active choices of how Lee acts.

As such, if he suspects anything is largely up to if you suspect anything. I'm not saying that I specifically did. That's because I knew that it's a game and it's unlikely she'd be a threat. But, had it been a real situation, I would have been suspicious of why she needed drugs and if she'd been telling the doctor the truth.

For Oberson, then that's likely the case. I'm guessing they looked at the game's internal files and saw that the mesh was named Oberson. That means that it's likely that's what Telltale intended. But since it was never specifically pointed out, it is possible that could be changed. It's doubtful but possible. So I'd say it's more a theory with strong evidence and less a fact. A small but potentially important difference.

For the zombies being the same, I'm not sure they were the exact same mesh (I didn't look at each one specifically to be fair). But they were in the exact spot/area that the ones the character could shoot were in. Even so, I kinda doubt if they were different that they'd go after Chuck/Clem. After all, Lee had been the one shooting and making noise, not to mention likely being closer. Again, not a huge difference, but important enough I felt to mention it. :P


For the record, I'm not trying to be hard on you or anything. I'm just giving my opinion/possibilities of what's going on.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Vigafre » 28 Oct 2012, 11:54

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. I'm mostly just curious as to you guys' thoughts on things. The person I'm watching is a little less observant, so I tend to miss things or not think about things as well as someone who is actually playing, which is why I went to the wiki.

As for the spoiler tags, yeah I agree.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Duckay » 31 Oct 2012, 00:15

To be honest, I love the atmosphere and the characters, but I really dislike the game.

At first, my major problem with the game could be summed up with the statement "you have done nothing".

Spoilers, to explain my point:

When Duck is dying and you need to decide who kills him, I was really rattled by the choice I had to make. But after agonizing over it as long as I dared, I chose Katjaa; Kenny just seemed too unstable and I figured that Katjaa brought Duck into this world, and could take him out of it.

When I heard the gunshot, I breathed out, happy the choice was done with. But of course, it wasn't. Kenny and I went out to find Katjaa, and found her body. I was really emotional. All I could think was, my decision did this. I, essentially, killed Katjaa. What have I done?

Of course, I hadn't done anything, as I later found out. Katjaa dies no matter what you do. That completely robbed that moment of its emotional impact.


This happens over and over again in the game; I felt like nothing I did actually mattered in the long run. This wouldn't be such a big deal if it weren't for all the marketing that push that it's a "tailored experience".

The second reason, the thing that pushed it from "I like this game but it has some flaws", is that it's buggy as hell. This frustrated me to no end. I even played on the same device as JackSlack, and yet my playthrough was twice as buggy as either of his. In episode two, Kenny did a sudden about-face in his opinion of me for no apparent reason, citing things that "happened" in episode one that I know didn't. At first I was disappointed in the writing, but then JackSlack assured me that no, Kenny was supposed to remember what choices you made, and it just bugged.

The worst one, though, was just now, when my game leapt from the end of episode three all the way to Clementine going missing and Lee getting bitten. I thought that was a kick-ass way to start an episode, only for JackSlack to tell me that no, that's the final sequence of episode four. What the fuck, game?

I'm sure I would have enjoyed it more if not for the bugs, but to be honest I wasn't loving it anyway; it felt more like watching an animated TV series that made me occasionally press buttons than actually playing a game anyway, and the fact that I ended up missing huge chunks of storyline (the only thing, IMO, worth playing the game for) just made me give up.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Kapol » 15 Nov 2012, 09:18

The last episode comes out on 11/20 during Desert Bus. ERMAHGERD!
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Drinnik » 21 Nov 2012, 14:52

Just finished episode 5. I feel numb and raw. One of the best games I've played.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Kapol » 21 Nov 2012, 16:47

All the feels. All of them. Right there.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Ptangmatik » 23 Nov 2012, 05:07

Now DB's over, I'm gonna get to this. Ah man, so much worry. I hope it ends well.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby JackSlack » 23 Nov 2012, 16:51

Bus! Now I'm bugged out and can't continue. It thinks I've not finished episode 4, and if I do finish it, then it declares episode 5 isn't installed. If I jump ahead, it randomises decisions.

[Edit] Have decided to uninstall, reinstall fresh, and start completely over. Seriously, I'm with Duckay. It'd be my GotY (she's not as keen, but I was) if it weren't for how unbelievably buggy it is.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Kapol » 23 Nov 2012, 21:45

Damn, I'm sorry to hear that Jack. That's likely the worst thing that could have happened in my opinion. :( I've never had to deal with bugs besides animation glitches myself. But, as I was going to say to Duckay (then forgot), I can understand how it'd ruin the experience entirely.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Ptangmatik » 24 Nov 2012, 05:22

Wow Jack, that really sucks. Just finished the episode myself, so spoilers, but still. Fucking bugs. Since I've changed OS since episode 4 and the save files aren't saved on the steam 'cloud' but in 'My Documents' I loaded it up to see no saves, but I just had to go back into XP and nab the save files, copy them over and all was sorted. Why they're not up on the cloud is another matter, since I can't close most games without a good 20-40 seconds of syncing

Don't worry about Lee, he's 'armless

On a more serious note, the finale being a conversation with the crazy dude was a cool idea, annoying that he gave me no slack for leaving his supplies though.

Watching Clem try to escape the security guard zombie was a 'heart in mouth' moment, watching that vase topple and smack Lee made me seriously growl.

I get the feeling if i hadn't saved Ben in episode 4 Kenny would have been the one who fell off the balcony.

I told Omid and Crista to wait by the train, I told Clem to go meet them, I don't understand why the final cutscene was Clem on her own, It surely wouldn't have been THAT much work to include several ending cutscenes depending on what characters were actually doing?

hmmm. what else? Kenny got to the bust before I did, Clem killed the stranger. I went first over the sign to the hotel, I rang the bell on the hospital roof rather than let anyone else try for it (if that was an option, I forget)
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Valliac » 25 Nov 2012, 11:02

Episode 5 in a nutshell:

"FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-"
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby LackingSanity » 25 Nov 2012, 19:56

I think I need a hug after all that.

Apparently they're working on a second season, though, so that could be interesting.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Valliac » 26 Nov 2012, 15:16

The way they left off with the ending from season 1, THERE HAD BETTER BE A SEASON 2.

But seriously,

I had Clem shoot Lee and FUUUUU-. Flowing tears. Not even manly one-tear sheds. Just outright 'bitch-tears' (as coined by my friend Thokk).

The game was buggy, but DAMN if Telltale doesn't know how to pull heart-strings like a damn harp.
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Re: The Walking Dead (Telltale Games)

Postby Vigafre » 12 Dec 2012, 18:33

Ptangmatik wrote:I get the feeling if i hadn't saved Ben in episode 4 Kenny would have been the one who fell off the balcony.

Late response, I know, but ignore this if you don't want other playthrough spoilers.

Nope, Kenny does not fall off that balcony. The railing still comes loose, but they don't mention it at all.

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