Crusader Kings II (and General Paradox Thread)

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

I could see a topic for this already, so apologies if one already exists.

I wanted to know who else plays this, in my view, great game?

What level (i.e count/duke) do you start at? And what general game play goals do you go for?

Also, what has been your best game so far?


For me, I tend to always start out as a lowly count, and try and raise my family to the most important in Europe.

My best game was when I was the Count of Oxford and trying to vie for influence over the Duchy of Norfolk. I managed to get my son to marry the Duchess and therefore make the heir from my dynasty and therefore strengthen my position for the Theocracy of England (Yeah, a bishop overthrew Harold Godwinson, after good old Harold repelled both the Vikings and the Normans). However, a rival who's child was also in the line of succession usurped my family by ordering them all dead and then taking the Duchy all for himself!

What happened next was a series of back and forth assassination attempts on various members, one upmenship and general bickering. We'd have probably gone to war if the King-Bishop allowed it, but in the end we just became mortal enemies, trying to stop each other securing more power elsewhere in the Kingdom, like some mighty game of chess.

And that is far as I got with that game so far. Because of Essays and Dessert Bussing I haven't had a chance to further my rivalry with that family.


So anyways, what about you guys? Also, if you have never played this game before, I highly recommend it. And if you played CK I and thought "man this game is buggy!" (Because it was) don't worry, and this game has been updated and improved greatly!

[Smeghead]

I play it (because I play most PDS games) and it has to be one of my favorite games (and would be my second choice for game of the year (Journey being nr 1)).

However; so far I think I've only beat the game twice. First time as A county in Ireland that ended up uniting all of ireland (it was my first game and Ireland is such a good country to start as). During which time I managed to marry a mongol into my family (the golden hord had converted to catholisism). And then the hier ended up with mongol as his primary culture making Ireland a Hord when he came to the throne.

In my latest game (which I started right after getting the SI DLC) I played as Sweden and ended up forming the empire of scandinavia by the 14:th century. I picked Sweden because I thought I would be a long way away from where the Aztecs would arrive (which I was) but instead the Golden hord actually reached me and I ended up having to suck up to them for a century to keep them off my back. I did however then conqure most of the kingdome of Rus from them when the hord started falling apart.

The fun thing with CK2 is that you could write a whole soap opera from just playing a game (although be it one set after the 'dark ages'). Plots, murders, intrige, love, greed, lust. Its all in there. Its like playing game of Thrones from a strategic point of view (and with only slightly less sex and incest), which is probably why the most popular CK2 mod is a game of Thrones mod (Think there is also a Pony mod).

I played Ck1 and i don't remember it being all that buggy. Mostly because I was more bothered by the fact that the game couldn't hanle all the information and after a little over a century the game was running at snail's phase.

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

The fun thing with CK2 is that you could write a whole soap opera from just playing a game (although be it one set after the 'dark ages'). Plots, murders, intrige, love, greed, lust. Its all in there. Its like playing game of Thrones from a strategic point of view (and with only slightly less sex and incest), which is probably why the most popular CK2 mod is a game of Thrones mod (Think there is also a Pony mod).

Especially with the Byzantine Expansion and the improved faction and intrigue systems. I especially love the new stats improvement system where you get the little events that pop up. My favourite being when I was cheat playing (giving myself lots of money etc) and I was the Emperor of Britannia and I opened my own pub. "I am the Emperor and I'm the one serving you tonight little serf!".

I played Ck1 and i don't remember it being all that buggy. Mostly because I was more bothered by the fact that the game couldn't hanle all the information and after a little over a century the game was running at snail's phase.

If I remember correctly, I think my game crashed because there was too much data, something to do with database issues or something like that *Uses vague computer terms*

[Smeghead]

The issue with Ck1 was (from what I've been told) that it had a hard time dealing with all the data as the game went on. Since data wasn't deleted when people died, it kept stacking up until the game suffered. There was some mod that deleted the data off dead people, but I couldn't get it to work.

My personal favorite event that came with the skill improvement ambitions is when you try to improve learning and build a flying machine. And then you can get this result;

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

Haha, yes! I was smiling too when I read that little tribute to Blackadder.

I was kind of hoping that if you stole the machine that Meldrick would bring back a Frying pan and be like "I brought you the Frying machine m'lord!"

[My pseudonym is Ix]

Don't know if this forum still counts as alive, but here we go...
I have a couple of campaigns going semi-on at the moment; one a late-twelfth century campaign as Norway, having usurped Mr Hardrada and spent my time ticking through religious wars in Finland and Russia. By some obscure fluke of marriage and a well-timed war of independence, I also control Tuscany, Venice and am in the process of attacking Croatia. I've also conquered England, but it did that thing of not becoming yours, but changing leadership to that of your vassals.
Since trying to negotiate a way of conquering Sweden has got both slow and tricky (I get on too well with Denmark to pick another target), I've just started another one as Duke of Munster. I'm only thirty years in, but have managed to conquer that province to the south (apologies to any Irish people for not knowing the geography) and am due to start on Connacht once I can fabricate a claim.
The problem, however, I have with all empire builder games is that I find them hard to stick to; they're great fun, but they have no definitive goal which makes it a bit... difficult for some reason. I stopped playing the Total war games through a mixture of that and realising I was really bad at them; I prefer CKII, but I still haven't progressed beyond 1200 in any campaign.

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

It's one of the biggest problems with most Paradox Games. They're just too long. Which can be both a good and a bad thing.

Take EUIII for example, the Grand Campaign is almost 500 years of gameplay, which wouldn't be a problem if the AI was more dynamic or more random events occurred. Which us why I like CKII as you can have a huge kingdom one year and the next fighting off a complete internal collapse of your kingdom.

But even with that it can be a bit too easy to prevent. Although that might just be the way I run my kingdom which prevents that. Since I always give new titles to Mayors or Bishops not Barons. Since Cities and Churches can't inherit titles and are less likely to try and fabricate claims themselves. Also it means that any potential "troublemakers" for your crown are in often in your court. Allow easier assassination or even imprisonment if a movement starts to depose you.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

I tend not to have too much of a problem with rebelling factions, probably since I tend to never bother raising crown authority; if they give me cash and money in any reasonable supply then I'm quite happy for them to fight the rest out among themselves (this may also be because I've got a gavel kind succession, so most of the lords seem to prefer to wait and build political support instead). The only time I did get an independence faction forming, it chose to do so in the middle of a war that was taxing all my resources; I let them cede, and they get themselves conquered by the Germans within a decade. Morons

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

See I'm too much of a control freak for that. I prefer having absolute crown authority and prigmaorarative (that's defiantly spelt wrong but I'm to tired to check the correct spelling) or elective.

I worked hard to make this kingdom and I'm not going to have it being messed up by some stupid, ambitious, AI.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

Well, I just think back to when I was a minor noble; I spent most of my time dicking on elder brothers & tended to leave the king alone. Even then it didn't work, and I had to wait for the English to capture him

[My pseudonym is Ix]

Well, I just think back to when I was a minor noble; I spent most of my time dicking on elder brothers & tended to leave the king alone. Even then it didn't work, and I had to wait for the English to capture him

[Smeghead]

I tend to always go for elective system; giving me the power to chose who'll rule next. downside is that you might have to destroy titles when you get bigger to stop your realm from falling apart (since if you create/usurp a kingdom it won't start as elective and you'll have to wait at least 10 years to change that).

I do agree that the paradox games need more goals you can work towards; more nations/empires to create, but also new harder challenges that come with that.

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

If you create them don't they follow the laws of your primary title? Since it seems to do that for me. Then again I don't have elective so that may explain why, plus I'm an Empire creating Kingdoms, so maybe it's for all lower ranks?

And the other thing that Paradox need to do is to allow for some ahistorisim. What I mean by that is in EUIII, all Western or Westernised nations get a huge research boost, making sure they'll always have an advantage over non-Western nations. They need to design a way that it is possible for Eastern nations (like China) to possibly industrialize and become imperialist first. Since playing someone like China (without cheating) is boring as your research crawls to a halt and Europe nations just come a long and beat your arse easily. It's not challenging, it's just unfair and not fun to play.

[Smeghead]

Maybe its just when you usurp a kingdom title. I know that in my Sweden->Scandinavia game; when I got Danish kingdom title its laws didn't match that of my primary title, and I had to change that some 10 years later when I was allowed to do so.

Well EU3 being a paradox game; anything can happen. Seen AI Japan unite and fully westernize by the 1700:s.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

As soon as I've managed to sick to one campaign long enough to actually get an empire, I'll get back to you on that

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

Yeah, if you usurp, you get retain the old laws. That's why it's sometimes better to fully annex a kingdom and effectively destroying the title before re-making it.

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

I hate double posting but this is for an important cause.

The new Republic DLC is out today! Wondering who's going to get it?

I am, but tomorrow, as I need to check my bank balance as I want to buy a couple of other things and I need to see if I can afford it or not. : /

I'm hoping there is some way to create new playable Republics in game, since I want to see how well the Republic of the Shetland Isles does against the rest of the world.

Of course, there is a long way of creating a Republic already, but it's a bit of a hassle. Since at the moment you need to be a King or Emperor and own a kingdom title to which you change the succession to elective while making the lord of the land a mayor of a city so it become a Grand City and they become a doge. Then you choose the doge as the next inheritor, then when your chap dies they become a Serene Republic. But it would be nice if in this DLC there is an easy way to change this, even if it's by console commands.

Actually I'm wondering if you can change an Empire into a Republic. Since that'd be quite interesting to play as.

[My pseudonym is Ix]

I tend not to spend much on games, so probably not going to get it; although I do find the idea of playing a republic kinda cool (it pissed me off not being able to play as Venice). If I get a bit further in my campaign I may give your method a try; could you just go through it again one more time, this time for idiots like me?

[Smeghead]

I've so far only had time to try out the republic for a short while... and I was having a hard time, so its a new kind of challang.

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

Tell us what it's like when you've had a chance to play more.


I'm probably going to get it next month when I get more money in. I know it's only around £7, but I want to keep an ample supply of money in my account just in case.

If I get a bit further in my campaign I may give your method a try; could you just go through it again one more time, this time for idiots like me?

Which part did you want explaining?

[My pseudonym is Ix]

The 'creating a republic before the expansion' part. I got lost somewhere around the 'making the lord of the land a mayor of the city so it becomes a grand city' part- which particular lord of the land are we talking about, and precisely how do we make them mayor of the city?

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

Lords of territories, starting at 1066, are mostly counts. Or in other terms, if the county title is held by a castle they would be a count. If you give the title to a city's mayor or a church's bishop it then becomes either a Grand City (if the mayor is a lord) or a Bishopric (if the bishop is a lord). The Mayor then would become a Lord Mayor and the Bishop stays the same.

If you grant them a Duchy then the Lord Mayor becomes a Doge and the Bishop becomes Prince-Archbishop. If you were to grant them a Kingdom then the Doge becomes a Serene Doge and the Bishop becomes a King Bishop. However, you can't grant them Kingdoms and so this is where the technique comes in.

So what you do is:

1) Grant one of your County titles to the Mayor of the County you're in.
2) Then grant them the Duchy title so they become a Lord Mayor.
3) Change the Kingdom succession laws of the title to elective.
4) Choose your candidate to which ever de jure/de facto Lord Mayor you wish to become the head of the Serene Republic.
5) Make sure that other electives who aren't a de jure/de facto don't become the most popular candidate as they'll just become the new King or the Kingdom will gain land not in their de jure territory.
6) Wait until your King/Emperor pops his clogs and hey presto! A new Republic.

You can also do this with to make Theocracies as well, but they're not playable (yet) so you can do that for fun if you like.

Also, the succession laws should then change to Open Elective, meaning that you'll get no succession crises or Kingdom claims*. This means it can be VERY attractive for large empires as it means you won't get plots to take away Kingdom titles or external claims etc.

You can do this for any Kingdom in the game. And you should technically be able to do this for Empires as well. However, you might get a game over if you don't have a Kingdom or County that your heir would inherit.


*Note: No NEW Kingdom claims, old ones would still stand.

[Phailhammer]

My main campaign at the moment is as the Byzantine Basileus. I didn't climb my way up, I just started as Alexios I in 1081.

I've gone about a century further than this, but here's a screenshot of the Mediterranean in mid-1277.

[Valkyrie-Lemons]

I'm interested to see the AI create an empire (Hispania) as I never seen the AI actually be competent enough to do that before.

Also, them Aztecs look threatening. I'm not sure if I want to install Sunset Invasion. Since it's just too out of place for my liking. I mean Spain never sent a huge invasion force to Mesoamerica but rather use technological advantage, political tactics, diplomacy and centuries of gradual colonialism to conquer the Aztecs.

For me this is the equivalent of giving yourself lots of cash via console then hiring all the merchs you can before conquering everyone else. Too much of "SURVIVE THIS!" than a real tactical curveball into your game. I guess you could say the same of the Moguls but at least they're historical.

[Phailhammer]

I installed Sunset Invasion *because* it's so out of place. I know it wouldn't be for everyone, but I'm enjoying it. I haven't had to deal with them much, being in the east.

The creation of Hispania surprised me as well. It only controls half of the Iberian Peninsula and a bit of the Algerian coast now.

The Aztecs have lost southern France, through civil war and the Holy Roman Empire. They lost central France to the Scots as the result of a crusade, but have regained it.

Edit: A couple more screens.

March, 1356



March, 1367