E3 2013

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Re: E3 2013

Postby Kapol » 10 Jun 2013, 20:53

Yes, but RE4 wasn't a launch title first off, and second off the release was nine months after. So as I said, it's possible, but it'll be much later. It might get exclusive content, but back for RE4, DLC wasn't as common. So they couldn't just offer the PS4 content to Gamecube owners for a cost, while that's likely what will happen in this case.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Genghis Ares » 10 Jun 2013, 20:56

Kapol wrote:
Genghis Ares wrote: pretty much for the Controller, Dead Rising 3, My Achievements, Minecraft, and Ryse.


Dead Rising 3 is one of the only reasons I will likely eventually pick up a Xbone at the moment. I love the Dead Rising series. DR2 was great, even if DR1 was only pretty good (I played it in SD at the time, so... yea...). The controller seems like a nice little bonus, though does anyone know if it's an extra controller or just the one that comes with the system? If it's the former, that's actually pretty cool. If it's the latter, it's pretty meh. Though I wonder if they'll be worth something in the future.

Also, the exclusive achievement for being one of the day-1 conversions thing is completely silly.


In regards to my controller comment, I meant the shape and feel of the controller. The 360 controller is perfect apart from the D-Pad. Everything I've seen with the One Controller is that they've improved everything about it. I think the Day One bundle just has the one controller.

ANeMzero wrote:...wouldn't be surprised if Dead Rising 3 made it to the PS4 at some later date with extra content in tow.


Dead Rising 1 was an 360 exclusive(it was ported/remade for the Wii though. But that was very watered down and different.)

I think it's being co-published by Microsoft Studios. I remember seeing their logo at the end of the gameplay video. Could just be because of the conference, but I still doubt it's going to PS4. Just a hunch though, really.

Also, it depends on the contract. Nintendo and Capcom for RE4 probably only had a contract for a certain amount of time or for some other restriction.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Darkobra » 11 Jun 2013, 03:03

You have to pay for the online capabilities of PS4 now? Aaaaand no.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby empath » 11 Jun 2013, 06:18

Matt wrote:Yes, it was "we're doing the same thing as ever, but charging you for online play"

That was still sick beats, by comparison.

-m


And they're going to get away with something that, announced on its own, would have a slavering mob calling for their heads. :)


Heh; what I find amusing is the paranoid, tin-foil-hat idea that this was all planned by collusion between the two leaders of the market to manipulate said market in a manner that'd take the FTC years to determine if charges could ever be filed. :lol:


Come with me, on this silly journey:

this totally never happened wrote:Jack Tretton: Heya, Don.

Don Mattrick: 'lo, Jack. So...what are we gonna do?

JT: What do you mean - what we have for lunch? I'm thinking about the salm-

DM: No, you KNOW what I mean; how are we going to keep the profitability up without alienating our customers? We're pretty much at a dead end at this point. Anything we do to create a new revenue stream out of our primary products will be met with hostility; horning in on the grey markets of used games and game sharing, targeted marketing via the user interface and even in-game - hell, you could come out with a press release that announced the PS4 is going DRM-free, and you'd still get lynched by a rabid pack of torch- and pitchfork-wielding gamers who reflexively flew off the handle because they saw initialism 'DRM' in the press release title!

JT: *sighs and slumps* Yeah...we've saturated the market, monetized everything our customers will let us and eked about every penny we can out of it all; anything we do will either dissatisfy our shareholders because it's not providing significant increase in stock value, or provoke hostility from our market itself.

DM: These were nice jobs, weren't they? We should have know they wouldn't last - I mean the position just screams "fall guy", but it was cool running things for a while...

JT: Yup; I just wish we could pull the same shit the publishers are; that whole "let's see who can be the biggest douchebag" competition that Ubi, EA & Activision have got going - it's like they don't even care about PR.

DM: *looks thoughtfully at Jack; starts stroking his chin*

JT: What?

DM: Maybe...maybe if we did work together. We've both got the next generation of consoles to announce in another year or two, right?

JT: Yeah, that's gonna be hell; it's the deadline for-

DM: Bear with me; what if one of us did ALL the douchebaggy things we could think of: forbid game sharing and piracy due to game registration, cloud storage and DRM; force-feed the users ads everywhere right from the moment of power on, etc. etc.

JT: That...that'd be suicide.

DM: Yeah, most of the market would drop that console like it was a shit-covered stone infected with herpes, and on fire.

JT: Weird analogy, but yeah.

DM: ...and they'd flock to the competitor's console regardless of the bad aspects of THAT one, as long as they weren't as blatantly egregious as the 'scapegoat' system; the other guy could slip in one or two kind of annoying things, and everyone would still praise it like it was the Second Coming.

JT: *thinks* Huh.

DM: Interesting to think about, isn't it?

JT: What you're talking about is collusion; market interference and manipulation - it's on par with rigging an election.

DM: No it's not; it'd be like...uh, okay - let's take your election analogy: if you had five or six political parties all running candidates for a single seat in a large senate or parliament - couple hundred, say. It'd be like if two candidates of the half-dozen running for that seat agreed to pool their support for one of the two - without any sort of agreement or conspiracy between them and the others.

JT: Still kinda shady.

DM: ...unlike EVERYTHING else we do, everyday?

JT: Point taken.

DM: *checks menu* You were saying something about the salmon?

JT: Yeah, the maitre'd was saying they'd gotten it fresh in last night...okay, let's say we do this - one of us takes a dive to make the other look good and allow him to get some shareholder-appeasing tricks through below the radar-

DM: I may have weird analogies, but at least I don't throw 'em all in a blender like that.

JT: Whatever, say we do this: how do we decide who has their product bomb?

DM: *shrugs* I dunno...okay - next server to come out of the kitchen: if it's a guy, Microsoft take the fall, if it's a gal, Sony becomes the pariah.

JT: ...okay.

DM: Okay.

*they wait & watch*

DM: There you go - the next XBox is going to be reviled.

JT: Wow. All right then.

DM: Of course, you know the converse of all this will have to be done somewhere down the road, maybe a couple of generations later - Sony will take the hit to make Microsoft look good.

JT: Sure, turnabout is fair play...mind you, I don't think either of us will still be here by that point. *looks awkward* Um, you especially.

DM: *shrugs* Not like I've lost any big amount of job security, is it?

JT: I guess not.

DM: Right, a shitty XBox - we can't let faulty hardware be a factor again; the customer base will put up with a lot of failings, but if you have the SAME failing twice in a row, they seriously start to abandon you for good. The draconian DRM is a given...I'll see about selling ad space on the user interface; heh, weren't you talking about putting a small display on the controller like a mini Vita or WiiU? Have that shoving ads at the player 24/7...

JT: Jeez, that's bit much.

DM: Man, this is liberating; we come up with all these 'joke ideas' that would never pass, but now? Now I get to USE them!

JT: Hell, one of the guys was joking that we could insist on having the next generation of the MOVE be a kind of Orwellian always-on thing...

DM: How would you justify that?

JT: Well, you'd have it in a sort of 'hibernation mode' but it's constantly checking for input to see if you want to turn your console ON with motion or voice control.

DM: Oh, that's CUTE; I mean it's not like we WANT to watch them...well, marketing probably would, to see what people prefer, but - hell, even with just a million units, to turn them into CCTV, that'd be a massive hassle of infrastructure to monitor; it's not like we're the...NSA...

JT: ...government grant?

DM: *laughs* Oh, come on!

JT: Hey, we don't have to DO it, just make the customers think you're doing it.

DM: Brilliant. Always on is a go. Wow, this is just so relaxing.

JT: Yeah, it's a change to be trying to think up things that WILL piss off our customers. Then there's the name - got any ideas.

DM: Uhhhh...wait, I remember something from a meeting a month or two ago...*think* yeah, we were in an early brainstorming session about the '720' about maybe coming up with a different name to wow the customers from what they expect us to do, and well - you know how Playstations have just had the boring but dependable incremental numbers going?

JT: Yeah, it's pretty much set in stone that the next one is gonna be the PS4.

DM: Exactly, so someone suggested a way of subverting that; 'going back to square one' so to speak, and showing our console isn't just another progressive iteration? Something revolutionary?

JT: Oooo...

DM: Yeah, so she'd suggested "Xbox One".

JT: *nods* Not bad.

DM: I know - we were all over it for about ten minutes, until someone started running potential nicknames through his head.

JT: So?

DM: You know human nature, right? How likely would a person latch onto something like 'X-bone' for a nickname for an "X-Box One"?

JT: *spit-takes* Oh, shit!

DM: Yeah, just killed that good idea, but now?

JT: *holds up water glass* To the XBone!

DM: The XBone!

*both clink glasses*


Of course, all this gets swatted down by Hanlon's Razor - to assume that M$ Interactive Entertainment Business would deliberately do this to maliciously manipulate their customers instead of just the usual 'bureaucratic incompetence of committee-based decision making' is unrealistic.

...but sounds like a good idea for a comedy sketch, no? :)
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Matt » 11 Jun 2013, 08:39

Yeah, that totally never happened.

-m
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Drinnik » 11 Jun 2013, 08:58

Nintendo's announcements are making me happy.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby ad134 » 11 Jun 2013, 09:42

I award "best announcement" to Star Wars: Battlefront. Nothing else made me scream at the top of my voice towards the screen. Best conference is obviously Sony. I wasn't planning on getting any of the 8th generation consoles, but now I'm not so sure. That PS4 looks pretty damn appetising.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Metcarfre » 11 Jun 2013, 09:47

Someone explain to me whether the DRM thing is good or bad.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Geoff_B » 11 Jun 2013, 10:01

So do we own the games we pay for or are we in effect renting them?
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Re: E3 2013

Postby General Michi » 11 Jun 2013, 10:16

Metcarfre wrote:Someone explain to me whether the DRM thing is good or bad.


Xbone is imposing it's own DRM and it's quite restrictive. Sony is doing nothing different so publishers will be able to impose their DRM the same way they do now if they so choose. That's what I got from everything anyway.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby LogicSword » 11 Jun 2013, 12:31

New Smash Bros :D
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Genghis Ares » 11 Jun 2013, 12:33

I would assume that the third-party DRM on PS3 would be somewhat different. I don't know what they would do aside from Online Passes and whatever, but they'll make more money per copy on Xbox One over PS4, it just remains to be seen which will sell more copies.

In my opinion, used games need to get money back to the developers somehow. I don't know how they can without DRM or retailers sharing revenue. I wish there could be some unified way for this to happen, but splitting things between the consoles is not going to move things forward for the game industry. I'd really like to see the restrictions give us more digital sales and a more robust marketplace for the Xbox One to become something like Steam.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby tamaness » 11 Jun 2013, 12:37

Here's the thing about used games: does any of the money I pay for a used CD, tape, or record go to the producers or the artists? Is it wrong for me to be able to buy a used album without paying the artist?
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Re: E3 2013

Postby My pseudonym is Ix » 11 Jun 2013, 12:39

madAlric wrote:Here's the thing about used games: does any of the money I pay for a used CD, tape, or record go to the producers or the artists? Is it wrong for me to be able to buy a used album without paying the artist?


I have a friend who will never buy used games for precisely this reason. Since most of my games now come from Steam, it's not a major issue for me.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Darkobra » 11 Jun 2013, 12:53

madAlric wrote:Here's the thing about used games: does any of the money I pay for a used CD, tape, or record go to the producers or the artists? Is it wrong for me to be able to buy a used album without paying the artist?


What about many years down the line when the game isn't being produced anymore? Should I be punished for that then?
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Lurkon » 11 Jun 2013, 12:59

Darkobra wrote:
madAlric wrote:Here's the thing about used games: does any of the money I pay for a used CD, tape, or record go to the producers or the artists? Is it wrong for me to be able to buy a used album without paying the artist?


What about many years down the line when the game isn't being produced anymore? Should I be punished for that then?


Of course not, and I don't think madAlric actually said what it looks like you think he said...

I won't be buying a next gen console at launch (I don't have that kind of funds), but I feel like if I ever do buy one of the two consoles that haven't come out yet, it'll be the PS4. Of course, that's highly dependent on the games I want to play at the time, but I feel like playstation is a safe bet for jrpgs, right?
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Genghis Ares » 11 Jun 2013, 13:12

madAlric wrote:Here's the thing about used games: does any of the money I pay for a used CD, tape, or record go to the producers or the artists? Is it wrong for me to be able to buy a used album without paying the artist?


I always thought Artists barely made money from CDs to begin with. Concerts and shows I have always thought were their main sources of income. Games don't have that kind of alternative income, at least nothing that comes to mind.

The problem with digital entertainment is that there is no reason for physical media anymore; we don't need physical retailers for this stuff anymore. But we have pander to them because people are still only buying physical media. I know the internet isn't everywhere, but I wished it were and everything became more connected. If Xbox One, PS4 and Wii U were all digital only, we'd be forced to change and actually evolve, instead we're stuck fucking around with discs and used game retailers we don't need. Maybe we aren't ready for that yet, but I wish we were.

When we buy entertainment we are buying an experience. I don't own the movie I watch at a movie theater, but I own the DVD and the right to watch it anytime. Selling that right away seems fine, but I'm reselling an experience I didn't make, just because I have the physical means to do so. We get rid of that physical option, creators have the ability to market and sell that experience in better ways. They can have sales and incentives that can be more widely accepted.

At least, that's how I see it.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby tamaness » 11 Jun 2013, 13:21

I'm personally of two minds on the used games front. On the one hand, if I've got a physical artifact, then I should be able to resell that at my leisure, but on the other, I want the creators to be incentivized to create more of this thing that I like.

With music, artists get royalties for all new product sold, and producers keep track of used album sales, as well; that way, if a particular artist's used sales start picking up, they can produce and sell more new copies. They use a system called SoundScan to do this.

Used games need a similar system.

See, I'm rarely able to afford brand-new games, so I wait until something is generally considered a "classic," or at least a must-play before I buy it. Usually the game is no longer available new by the time I get around to buying it. Producers and developers should know that this game sold through a retailer, whether it's used or not, but I shouldn't have to pay extra for this copy of a game that's no longer being produced.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Deedles » 11 Jun 2013, 13:54

One thing to note when it comes to used games is that games are moving more and more onto the digital plane. It's becoming more common that people generally buy digital copies of the games they want, unless it's that really special one that they want a physical copy/collector's edition, etc, of, because it's simply handier to buy it online and download it than having to travel into town and go to an actual store. This makes used games less of an issue. It's still very much an issue that exist, but it's becoming less so.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Kapol » 11 Jun 2013, 14:53

My opinions on what I've heard so far from E3:

General:

-Megaman is coming to Super Smash Bros. That's neat, but it bothers me that the Wii U version doesn't seem to look any better. The graphics seem about the same as they were for the Wii announcement. Though I am happy to see that they're coming out with a 3DS version too, and I'm interested in how it'll connect with the Wii U version.

-So is Mario now officially a furry? Because he seems to wear an unorthodox number of animal costumes. Joking aside, a cat costume just kinda seems... weird to me. I think there could have been a more interesting costume then just... cat. Still think that the Super Mario 3D World looks like it'll be alright. Won't pick it up right away though.

-I'm glad to see Dead Rising 3 coming out. I'm sad that it's an XBone exclusive.

PS4 vs. Xbone:

-While the PS4 does have a lot of things going for it over the XBone, I don't see how it was a 'slaughter' like a lot of people made it out to be (and I do mean a LOT of people). That little game-sharing video wasn't that clever or funny in my opinion. It feels like it was basically saying what made a lot of people say it was the clear-cut winner between XBone and PS4. "We're not as shit as the other guy!" I also find it odd that some view the PS4 as a massive victory for that same reason.

-One thing I find somewhat odd about the online complaints is that the majority of people who complain about it are people who have a fairly consistent connection to the internet. I don't feel like the online check-in would affect me anymore than Steam does. That said, I live in an area where internet connectivity isn't plentiful. So I can agree that it is a major issue that's fairly stupid of Microsoft to do. I've heard people say they think it might have a good reason after seeing how 'the cloud' is supposed to interact with some games, but I do think they should/should have worked on a system for people without connection.

-Related, I see it trotted about that you have to connect once every 24 hours. Has it been made clear if that's 24 hours of gameplay (you can play for 24 hours before connecting), or once a day? I'm guessing it's once a day, but the former wouldn't be quite as bad.

-This makes me feel what it seems Xbox is trying to do in general. It feels like it's trying to copy Steam. Steam has an offline mode, but if you don't connect every so often, it can cut off your access. A friend without internet has had this happen to him, and it just sucks. It's another reason why DRM is annoying. And yes, Steam is DRM.

-I find it interesting how Sony has been able to get away with the new multiplayer fees due to the XBone. Imagine if they had started out with that before the XBone details were known, or if the XBone didn't have the asinine restrictions it does. I have to admit that's one thing I liked about the PS3, so seeing it go away says, at least to me, that they've gone down a bit too. But at this point it's like comparing walking down a hill to jumping off a cliff.

-I still feel like we don't have a good idea about how used games will be affected. Even now I hear a bunch of different things. It seems to be up to the publishers though. I'm interested to see how it works out actually. The massive backlash might push publishers away from the system if it is a choice. If people DO vote with their wallets, like they should, I think that we won't see a whole lot of systems using the used game systems post launch. I'd like to see Microsoft do away or least lighten up on it before then. But I kind of doubt they will.

-The only real 'killing blow' I've really seen for the competition is the price difference. The $100 price difference is a huge deal for pretty much everyone buying a console. I'm not sure what the difference will be between the two that caused such a massive shift in price. Maybe Microsoft decided to try to get profits from their system (like Nintendo did for the Wii) while Sony decided to take a loss on it. If that's the case... well, it's Microsoft's own fault for digging themselves this deep already, so I'm not surprised to see them dig deeper into their hole.

In conclusion:

Don't really care about the PS4. It's the better option of the two right now though. Hope Microsoft gets their shit together, but I doubt it given Microsoft seemed to think they can't be touched. The next console I buy will still likely be a Wii U, followed by upgrading my gaming rig before worrying about either other system.

EDIT: Meant to mention that Mad's point about older used games is a good one. While I can normally find new versions of older games, I don't think it's good that I could be screwed over trying to find an older game. I'm guessing that XBone will have a lot of their library as digital download. I don't think that's a good alternative.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Metcarfre » 11 Jun 2013, 14:58

I find it interesting that almost none of the conversation about the platforms has to do with actual hardware and specs.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Genghis Ares » 11 Jun 2013, 15:05

madAlric wrote:I'm personally of two minds on the used games front. On the one hand, if I've got a physical artifact, then I should be able to resell that at my leisure, but on the other, I want the creators to be incentivized to create more of this thing that I like.

With music, artists get royalties for all new product sold, and producers keep track of used album sales, as well; that way, if a particular artist's used sales start picking up, they can produce and sell more new copies. They use a system called SoundScan to do this.

Used games need a similar system.

See, I'm rarely able to afford brand-new games, so I wait until something is generally considered a "classic," or at least a must-play before I buy it. Usually the game is no longer available new by the time I get around to buying it. Producers and developers should know that this game sold through a retailer, whether it's used or not, but I shouldn't have to pay extra for this copy of a game that's no longer being produced.


I feel like the digital console marketplaces could do more sales and stuff if used games weren't around. If Microsoft came out and said, "Xbox One games are going to be $50 now, because of the cloud, DRM, and used game policies that give more money back to the developers", that would be great. If the average person buys 10 games, it levels with PS4. Also, I would hope that would also lead to more sales and discounts in the marketplace for DLC and On Demand. Not just hey, this game is 3 years old, now it's only $20. More a publisher/developer didn't get the sales they wanted in the first month, now it's $40, now it's $30, etc. Get us the retail sales we see today, not the used stuff. On Demand right now is never the cheapest option, make it competitive to combat used games and that should work.

Kapol wrote:Don't really care about the PS4. It's the better option of the two right now though. Hope Microsoft gets their shit together, but I doubt it given Microsoft seemed to think they can't be touched. The next console I buy will still likely be a Wii U, followed by upgrading my gaming rig before worrying about either other system.

EDIT: Meant to mention that Mad's point about older used games is a good one. While I can normally find new versions of older games, I don't think it's good that I could be screwed over trying to find an older game. I'm guessing that XBone will have a lot of their library as digital download. I don't think that's a good alternative.


I think Xbox One has to have it's entire catalog digitally accessible. Considering you have to install every game, this is a no brainer. If I can lend it digitally to my friends and family, then great, I'll probably do that day one with Dead Rising 3 and Ryse.

And if digital On Demand costs the same as a used copy that far after they launch, and it really needs to be competitive, I don't see digital as a bad alternative. Unless you really want that disc.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Kapol » 11 Jun 2013, 15:07

Personally, it's because I don't care. The next gen systems are going to have very pretty games and be very powerful compared to the current versions. But PC games are going to look better fairly quickly. The systems are really going to be defined more by the exclusives they have rather than the graphics I think.
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Kapol » 11 Jun 2013, 15:12

Genghis Ares wrote:I think Xbox One has to have it's entire catalog digitally accessible. Considering you have to install every game, this is a no brainer. If I can lend it digitally to my friends and family, then great, I'll probably do that day one with Dead Rising 3 and Ryse.

And if digital On Demand costs the same as a used copy that far after they launch, and it really needs to be competitive, I don't see digital as a bad alternative. Unless you really want that disc.


I think that it's a no-brainer to have all their games available as digital downloads. But Microsoft has missed many 'no-brainers' before. Being able to lend digital copies of games would also be a good move I think, and would help justify the need to check up every day. I also doubt they're going to do it.

Honestly, given how much Microsoft has missed the mark with their current selection of online games, I don't trust them much with pricing that kind of stuff. But I do think that the '2 free games a month' idea will help create a platform where older, but still good, games will become available to the public for free after they've been out for a while. They've already shown this in their first month for the Xbox 360 with Halo 3 and AssCreed 2 becoming free. Those are both very good games. But I feel they're a bit... too old to be honest. The vast majority of people who are even slightly interested have likely already played them.

I also like said system is going to be for the Xbox 360 as well from what I've seen.
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Genghis Ares
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Re: E3 2013

Postby Genghis Ares » 11 Jun 2013, 15:25

Kapol wrote:
Genghis Ares wrote:I think Xbox One has to have it's entire catalog digitally accessible. Considering you have to install every game, this is a no brainer. If I can lend it digitally to my friends and family, then great, I'll probably do that day one with Dead Rising 3 and Ryse.

And if digital On Demand costs the same as a used copy that far after they launch, and it really needs to be competitive, I don't see digital as a bad alternative. Unless you really want that disc.


I think that it's a no-brainer to have all their games available as digital downloads. But Microsoft has missed many 'no-brainers' before. Being able to lend digital copies of games would also be a good move I think, and would help justify the need to check up every day. I also doubt they're going to do it.

Honestly, given how much Microsoft has missed the mark with their current selection of online games, I don't trust them much with pricing that kind of stuff. But I do think that the '2 free games a month' idea will help create a platform where older, but still good, games will become available to the public for free after they've been out for a while. They've already shown this in their first month for the Xbox 360 with Halo 3 and AssCreed 2 becoming free. Those are both very good games. But I feel they're a bit... too old to be honest. The vast majority of people who are even slightly interested have likely already played them.

I also like said system is going to be for the Xbox 360 as well from what I've seen.


Yeah, it remains to be seen. I don't think they're done detailing all this, so I don't feel like they've dug themselves into a hole or anything, but it really needs to be this way and I really hope they do it.

I think AC2 and Halo 3 are decent decisions to make for the first free games. They are pretty old, but they are also parts of really big franchises and maybe the newer Halo and AC games are still selling ok and they don't want to cut into those sales?(I don't know). I already have them both, so it's bittersweet, but hopefully they'll have something cool I never got around to.
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