Gaming Desktop Advice

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Atifexe
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Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Atifexe » 19 Sep 2015, 20:10

Hello everyone! I'm in the market for a new desktop, with the hopes of doing all sorts of fun gaming that I've previously only really gotten into on consoles. This would be my first PC purchase over $1000, so I want to make it a good investment - especially with Fallout 4 on the horizon.

A couple of points to note at the start of this thread - I have no experience building my own PC, and I do not feel inclined to start gathering such experience now. I'd really rather be able to make a purchase and have the system arrive in a ready-to-function state.

To that end, I've been looking on Newegg's .ca website, as well as various comparison blogs. My own technical knowledge is limited, so I was hoping I could get a little advice in which is going to be the best bang for my buck. At this point, I'm trying to keep it around the $2000 CDN mark, though if there's something that's well worth the extra $500, I'm willing to be flexible.

The first system I'd like some feedback on is this one here. At just under $2500, it's right at the top of my budget, but so far it's the one that's ticking all the boxes my limited understanding has been able to draw up.

The primary competitor in my mind is this one, which my girlfriend found. The challenge here is that it's actually probably well above my budget, as I'm fairly certain the site uses USD and at current exchange rates, that'll add approximately 50% to the quoted price before factoring import/customs fees and taxes.

If anyone has any additional resources or knowledge they'd like to lay on me, I'm all for it. So far, my criteria has generally been 16+ gigs of DDR4 RAM, Intel i7 6700k processor, and a preference for more than 1TB storage, with the best graphics card for around $500 - $600. If I'm missing out on some opportunity by being too narrow, please let me know!
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Merrymaker_Mortalis » 20 Sep 2015, 11:57

My personal experience was that I looked into building my own PC.

But when I went to open my laptop to clean it, I somehow broke it. That destroyed my self confidence in assembling a PC with expensive components.

So I bought an off-the-shelf. I don't have to worry about wondering if I assembled it incorrectly. It's covered by warranty (as long as I don't open it up). I probably don't have as much value as if I bought the bits, but I paid for a tower that someone thought worked well with its bits. Also I bought peace of mind.

Prices for components can be misleading. American based merchants often don't include VAT on prices until you're at the check out.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Master Gunner » 20 Sep 2015, 12:23

Besides Newegg, I also recommend checking out NCIX - they're based out of Vancouver and their prices tend to be on par or better than Newegg.

NCIX also has an option where if you want something custom, if you buy all the parts from them, they can assemble it for you before shipping it.
If you go that route, I recommend using this site to plan what components to pick. It's a fairly easy to use interface that lays out what you need, what your options are (making sure all the pieces are compatible), and gives a price estimate (set your location to Canada, and you can have it use NCIX's prices, with direct links to the product page on NCIX).
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Atifexe » 20 Sep 2015, 13:38

That's a pretty impressive site, Master Gunner! It is, however, a bit over my head. I've tried to put something together on there, but the further I go, the more I feel I need to do research just to get started. I think I'll stick with prebuilt, at least for now.

Additionally, NCIX's PC builder site component is down, and they're out of stock on the i7 6700k. Looks like no luck so far. =P
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby ch3m1kal » 20 Sep 2015, 15:15

Here, this might help you out.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/cBjLmG

Basic config, feel free to go with other stuff if you'd like. I find cases in particular are a personal thing, so I just picked a decent basic one. And I'm personally a fan of liquid coolers but they're not everyone's cup of tea.

Otherwise, the rig is far more powerful than the one you linked. The 980 ti in particular is awesome, you get a nice 6 core CPU, double the RAM, a 250GB SSD for your system drive and a pair of extremely reliable 2TB HDDs (I'd go for RAID 0 on them) to hold all your games.

1 thing to mention is that this particular CPU is a bit limited when it comes to supporting multiple GPUs, so if you're thinking of ever going SLI it's not the best choice, but I'm guessing that won't really be a factor.

Now just feel free to pick your favorite monitor and peripherals.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Atifexe » 24 Sep 2015, 21:42

So far I haven't been able to find any Canadian suppliers of computers using I7 6700k processors, other than ibuypower or Cyberpower, both of which have some extremely negative reviews (ranging from power supplies that explode after a week or two of use to items delivered broken that they refuse to replace or refund).

Ch3m1kal, is the 5820k really that much more powerful than the 6700k in the contexts of gaming and streaming? My preliminary research suggested the 6700k had superior performance to its closest competitors at a comparable price.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby ch3m1kal » 25 Sep 2015, 02:33

The 6700 has better performance / core, but is only a quad.
Now it's true that games generally don't get much advantage (if any) from more cores, but if you're looking to also stream, the 2 extra cores in the 5820 can be assigned to OBS / Xsplit so you minimize performance overhead.

Bottom line: gaming performance will be pretty much identical since the vast majority of games are not CPU-bound, but with the 5820 you get 2 more cores for other stuff.
What will however make a large impact in your gaming performance is the 980 ti compared to the 970 you were looking at.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Atifexe » 25 Sep 2015, 13:34

Thank you for the extra information. I think the only game I play that tends to run into CPU issues is Dwarf Fortress, which isn't multithreaded and can't effectively use additional cores or benefit from better graphics cards.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby ANeMzero » 25 Sep 2015, 22:25

Merrymaker_Mortalis wrote:But when I went to open my laptop to clean it, I somehow broke it. That destroyed my self confidence in assembling a PC with expensive components.


Laptop internals are far more complex and sensitive just due to the small space they have to be crammed in to. It is easy to jiggle loose a vital wire or cable without even knowing what it does, or where it actually is. Laptops are built to be small, at the cost of often requiring a specialized technician to service them.

A desktop with a full tower case won't suffer from this problem. The cables are much larger, longer and far more durable, and won't ever be soldered to their connecting boards. Even if you did knock one loose it is just a matter of finding it and plugging it back in.
and now; back to me.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Atifexe » 26 Sep 2015, 00:23

So here is the most recent build I've put together. It's a little too expensive for my liking, though, so tips on where I can cut costs while maintaining performance would be much appreciated!
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Robo4900 » 26 Sep 2015, 00:40

Try taking a look at some AMD parts. Assuming you aren't going absolutely top of the line, it tends to be cheaper.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby ch3m1kal » 26 Sep 2015, 04:24

Couple of things I don't understand:

You picked a full tower case, but a micro ATX mobo and an R9 Nano.
Why?

If you want a tiny rig, then at least pair it with a m-atx case too, otherwise stick with the full sized stuff.
The R9 Nano in particular is a bad choice as it's significantly slower than a FuryX or a 980 ti, both of which are cheaper.

The 1kW platinum PSU is nice, but way overkill and you can easily get away with far less. I'd suggest a 700-750W unit from Seasonic or the Corsair builder series.

You can probably also save a little bit of money by skipping the extra sound card for now. The onboard stuff should be fine and it's easy to add it in later if you feel the need. I'd suggest getting a USB sound card rather than an internal one anyway.

To the best of my knowledge you also don't need an extra fan, the 750D case comes with 2x140 mm front fans + 1x140 mm rear fan, and the Corsair H100 unit will be mounted at the top.

Also PLEASE do not build a rig without an SSD in it in 2015. It makes pandas cry.

Here, best I could do:
http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/9npw4D

I would highly recommend upgrading to 32GB of ram whenever possible though. And you should consider ditching the 144Hz monitor, as you're unlikely to hit such high frame rates with a single video card in modern games.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby unpronounceable » 26 Sep 2015, 07:02

Robo4900 wrote:Try taking a look at some AMD parts. Assuming you aren't going absolutely top of the line, it tends to be cheaper.

There is no reason to buy an AMD CPU over Intel.

Take a look at some benchmarks. The i5 there, which isn't even the newest/best, it's one that is comparable price wise that I found on PCPartPicker. The i5 is ahead in pretty much everything, except some of the most multithreaded benchmarks. There's no reason to buy that FX-9590 because it's overall notably worse in performance, is the same price, and will take more than twice as much power, thereby adding on to the total cost of ownership.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Master Gunner » 26 Sep 2015, 11:11

ch3m1kal wrote:The 1kW platinum PSU is nice, but way overkill and you can easily get away with far less. I'd suggest a 700-750W unit from Seasonic or the Corsair builder series


Continuing from this, PCPartPicker will display your estimated power usage in the top-right of the page:
http://i.imgur.com/rkvtjgC.png

You'll want some overhead over that number, but any power supply from 600w up would be able to handily power that system (or the one ch3m1kal suggested). 750w power supplies are probably more common though, and would give you /plenty/ of room for expansion.

As far as RAM goes, 8GB is plenty to handle all your current needs, and 16GB would last you for years to come. I don't see any need to push for 32GB in the near future for most people.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Atifexe » 26 Sep 2015, 20:49

Those errors would be my lack of knowledge showing through. I was trying to replicate a build a friend linked me to that was from a manufacturer with a terrible reputation. In regards to the PSU, that was selected based on an article I read that suggested that you generally want your system's consumption to be in the range of 40-60% of the PSU's listed capacity, to comfortably allow for upgrades without overtaxing the PSU during peak performance. Dropping it down to a 750 should be no problem.

I was of the understanding that the Hybrid drive included a SSD component, which is why I selected it over having separate drives. That's easily remedied.

I'm learning a lot with this, I think. I'm glad I asked, rather than just buying the first decent-looking system I came across.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Dutch guy » 27 Sep 2015, 07:26

I never really agreed with that 40-60% rating of PSU. You really don't want a a PSU to be under performing as much as you don't want it having to overperform. Both are bad for the stability of the voltages and can lead to spikes. I tend to go for 25% overrated over calculated power draw. PSUs are universal and relatively cheap, so if you need a heavier one for an upgrade in the future buy one when you need it. No need to waste dollars now because you MIGHT need it imho.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Master Gunner » 27 Sep 2015, 08:20

What Dutch Guy said. If you're planning to upgrade 3 years from now, then you can look for a new PSU if you need it at that point. But for now, you just want a PSU that will last you until the next upgrade cycle.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby empath » 27 Sep 2015, 08:32

Can I just take a moment to point out that the two above me are supposed to be diametrically-opposed enemies, and yet they agree on this. :lol:

Also, remember that the power supply is an item that is likely to wear out faster than other components; when you're thinking about upgrading the GFX card in three or four years, you might just need to replace the PSU anyway due to degradation as much as insufficient capacity.


...and a final note of pride and hope that this community is, as always, useful and helpful to someone looking for advice. Image
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby unpronounceable » 27 Sep 2015, 09:39

Dutch guy wrote:I never really agreed with that 40-60% rating of PSU. You really don't want a a PSU to be under performing as much as you don't want it having to overperform. Both are bad for the stability of the voltages and can lead to spikes. I tend to go for 25% overrated over calculated power draw. PSUs are universal and relatively cheap, so if you need a heavier one for an upgrade in the future buy one when you need it. No need to waste dollars now because you MIGHT need it imho.

The whole reason there's the recommendation to utilize 50% of the PSU's rated load is for efficiency. Going to high or too low is obviously bad, but right at 50% is where PSUs perform most optimally. Take a look at the efficiency rates for the different 80 Plus certifications. The required efficiency is highest at 50% load.

Now, that's not to say it's necessarily bad to use a higher percentage of the rated load, but that's where the 50% metric comes from.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Lord Chrusher » 28 Sep 2015, 14:02

Since everything depends on it, the power supply is key. Don't look to save a few dollars there.

I also will soon be on the market for a PC. Now that I live in the UK, I have no idea where to buy from.
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Jeezy » 29 Sep 2015, 01:11

I've been fairly pleased with Novatech over the years, but basically what happened is I found it reasonable and just kept using it without shopping around. I've only ever used it for barebones kits and components, so I don't know what it's like if you're after something prebuilt. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that there's better places out there, but they do the job for me!
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Re: Gaming Desktop Advice

Postby Robo4900 » 29 Sep 2015, 02:57

Lord Chrusher: I've always used Ebuyer.
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