Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

[Jamfalcon]

I think we probably should extend, yeah. The only outcome that I'd say is for sure bad is a tie. I think I've already voted this cycle, but just in case, I'll renew my vote: extend.

(And just so people know, my edit on that last post was just adding those extra Os to "tooooo" because I thought that sounded better.)

[Kapol]

Unless I missed a reset, Memo, myself, Jam, and Metric all have standing votes to extend. Though Metric put theirs as "Vote to extend" rather than Vote: Extend. Which I'm not sure it matters.

[Robo4900]

Including Jamfalcon's extend from just now, there are only 3 votes to extend: Kapol, MetricFurlong, and Jamfalcon.

(Also, 900th post hype!)

[Kapol]

As for Smeg, I was mostly just bringing up that only four of us have really been active. Smeg hasn't said much in the last couple days either, unless I'm mistaken. But that's not against them. My intent was more that we don't fully have everyones' opinions with all the new information than anything. Being quiet for some reason is fair when we seem to have ruled him out.

Also, Memo voted to extend, then shorten, then recently voted to extend again when he mentioned needing time to read and process.

[Duckay]

Don't worry Jam, it wasn't the arguments I was ever upset about. I just probably seemed waspish in the arguments because I decided to approach them instead of take time to "cool off" from the thing I was really upset about.

When Snorsh clarifies the votes and time remaining for us, I will look at possibly changing my vote. Although if we can get more on side with Memo, that works for me too.

[Robo4900]

Oh yeah, you're right, we are on 4.

So I guess we've got another 24 hours to decide on all this all.
With that, I'm going to sleep.

[MetricFurlong]

I did not say that someone might have the ability to muddy a role. I said there was a possibility that your role might have a percentage chance to "misfire" because with a large number of power roles and twists that is very plausible.

I know; I just didn't feel that was worth addressing because 'well you don't know you don't have a secret failure chance' is not much of an argument. If our positions were reversed and I used it against you, you wouldn't believe it either

A paint power is more likely, from a mafia game standpoint (since it already has secrecy and unpredictability from the game's standard mechanics) so giving benefit of the doubt, that's what I went for. I have no reason to assume there is one, but if false targets are a thing it fits better than 'random failure chance'.

I feel better now, having actually admitted that I was feeling cranky and why. Sorry about being a sour pants.

Eh, no worries. It's a mafia game, tensions are always going to run a little high.

Also, I'm going to sleep soon. So, I think now's the time for anyone to say if they strongly believe the day should be extended.

I personally think we've got all we can out of this day, though.

You can break the tie if you want. Duckay won't because ending with a tie is in her best interests. Jamfalcon and Kapol are unlikely to go for the last-minute tie-break in case it makes them look more suspicious, Memo might but that depends on him reading more of the thread in the next 4 hours, plus he's not necessarily averse to a tie.


Also in case mine didn't go through the first time
Vote: Extend

[Kapol]

That's kind of why I thought another extension is best. It puts less pressure on figuring stuff out right now so some of us can sleep.

Though I feel I've made all of the arguments I can, and made my point. If I come down to being the only reason there's a tie, and we do reach the last minute, I'll change my vote. Honestly, I was being too hard-headed before. Though everything that I said still holds true. I don't want to. But it's certainly better than giving the killing role another day and Memo another chance to get a minion. As much as I'd rather see the 'recruiter' role go away, I'd rather at least make some progress tonight.

I do want to say one thing. I've been very aggressive in voting for Memo. I really do apologize if that is coming off as personally against you, Memo. That isn't the case. I honestly just think the role you were given is a big threat to the town. That isn't your fault, and I wouldn't/don't blame you for playing it as you have to. I just wanted to say that, in case I came off the wrong way.

For now, I'm at least going to take a break and relax.

[Jamfalcon]

You can break the tie if you want. Duckay won't because ending with a tie is in her best interests. Jamfalcon and Kapol are unlikely to go for the last-minute tie-break in case it makes them look more suspicious, Memo might but that depends on him reading more of the thread in the next 4 hours, plus he's not necessarily averse to a tie.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd rather see Memo lynched than have the day end in a tie. Like I said, the tie is the worst case scenario for me, because we take out no threats regardless of how big they are, and give all the hostile players a chance to take their night actions.

[Mono_Snorsh]

Lot of activity today, sorry that the server decided to flip out today and I was absent for much of it.

Four votes makes for a majority. 24 hours have been added to Day length. Extension votes have been reset.

Votecount
Current Lynch Target:
Extend Votes: 1/4
Shorten Votes: 1/4

Votes for each player
AdmiralMemo: 2 (Duckay and Kapol)
Duckay: 2 (MetricFurlong and Jamfalcon)
Smeghead:
MetricFurlong: 2 (AdmiralMemo and Robo4900)
Jamfalcon:
Robo4900:
Kapol:

Each player's votes
AdmiralMemo: Shorten, MetricFurlong
Duckay: AdmiralMemo
Smeghead:
MetricFurlong: Duckay, Extend
Jamfalcon: Duckay
Robo4900: MetricFurlong
Kapol: AdmiralMemo

If it's okay to paste result PMs

You may copy paste result PMs.

By the way, what time exactly does this day end?

the 24th at 07:16 UTC.

[MetricFurlong]

By the way, what time exactly does this day end?

the 23rd at 07:16 UTC.

Shouldn't that be the 24th now the extention's gone through?


(god, why am I still awake?!)

[Mono_Snorsh]

By the way, what time exactly does this day end?

the 23rd at 07:16 UTC.

Shouldn't that be the 24th now the extention's gone through?


(god, why am I still awake?!)

Yes, sorry. Forgot to change that when the extension hit majority.

[Jamfalcon]

So it's a three way tie, huh? Smeghead has a lot of power when he wakes up.

[Mono_Snorsh]

Change vote: Shorten

I've chosen to read this as retracting Extend and voting Shorten but note that the two time based votes are unrelated. You can vote for both Extend and Shorten at the same time.

I'm guessing the 'put everyone in hoods' part was meant to kind of hide that fact.

Yes. I do try to make things make as much sense as they can.

If things start to go south, it's possible we could at least get an undead victory, so at least we have a backup plan.

A reminder that everyone is required to try to play to their current win condition.

The role becomes a LOT more powerful if they're able to actually stop the full 'mafia,' meaning either member of the separate mafia roles.

korvys's role would only stop the targeted mafia member from delivering the factional Nightkill not the entire faction.

the lower a priority is the faster it fires

This is how priority works.

Though Metric put theirs as "Vote to extend" rather than Vote: Extend. Which I'm not sure it matters.

The only mechanically relevant part of votes are the name for lynch votes, the word Extend for Extend votes, the word Shorten for Shorten votes and the colouring.

[Mono_Snorsh]

I would like to make this note:

All players are a member of either the Town faction or an Anti-Town faction. The Town faction wins when there are no members of anti-Town factions alive. Anti-Town factions win when their members form the majority of the alive players.

I would like to highlight that we've all known from the beginning that there was more than one anti-Town faction.

The rules I posted are intended as boilerplate. The recognition of the possibility of multiple Anti-Town factions is not a guarantee that multiple Anti-Town factions exist.

the "suspicious cop" archetype (i.e. risks false positives).

All abilities have been guaranteed to be entirely reliable on their end.

[AdmiralMemo]

So, wow... a lot to process... Phew...

Maybe this is an exaggeration, but damn does it read like a manipulation.

It's not manipulation. I'm just very a volatile person. Honestly, I barely know even how to manipulate people, at least intentionally.

Also, I want to be very clear about something: I can't resurrect anyone who is lynched.

Alright, here's my question to ask of all of you, because it's very important: Do you believe there are two wereweagles? If that can be determined, then we'll have a plan.

Kapol: You mentioned balancing? I have a suspicion that this game is not balanced the way you suspect. But that's just a gut feeling.

he can resurrect people, each of whom can then resurrect other people.

I don't believe this is the case. It's not explained in the Dark Resurrection power explanation that they get my powers. I think they're just Undead-aligned vanilla.

He isn't necessarily an enemy of the town though. Right now, since he's the only member of his faction, he'd be an idiot not to be at least a begrudging ally.

Keep in mind that if we kill of AdmiralMemo, that's one less enemy for the mafia to worry about. The mafia are the real enemy here. Memo might become a threat, but he isn't one at the moment.

This is exactly why I was trying to hedge my bets. You don't trust me, and I don't blame you. But, strange bedfellows, enemy of my enemy, and whatnot. I can only turn people to my side if both conditions are met: 1. Mafia are killing people, and 2. I guess correctly who they kill. Clearly #2 isn't reliable, since I couldn't help korvys last night. But, for #1... I'm harmless to Town if the Mafia are gone. I have no love for Mafia, and am only using them as a means to an end during the night. And, if this wasn't clear from the implications, I can't kill two Mafia on my own, but they will kill me. Maybe not tonight, but they will kill me at some point. Therefore, I have to help Town at this point, for my own good. I might not be helping Town tomorrow, depending on how things shape up, but for today, I'm forced to help Town.

Actually it's tactically more appropriate for him to ally with mafia in the short term. After all, with no night kills he can't turn anyone. Now, maybe he decided to act differently, but I personally don't understand the tactical advantage on him being anti-mafia.

This doesn't gibe with me. I don't understand being pro-Mafia at this point. This statement only serves to make you look more suspicious. Had I gotten korvys as a Revenant last night, yeah, your statement would make sense, but if I'm alone, Mafia has no reason to keep me alive. I can only grow in power and become a threat to their win. Besides... in the long term, I only need one Mafia still alive, don't I?

I'm not actually voting for you because I don't know if you're a wereweagle or a flawed cop, whereas we now know Memo is a threat.

A threat who relies on predicting who the wereweagles will kill in order to win. Once again: The faster the wereweagles are lynched, the less of a chance he has to raise minions. From a Town standpoint, he is not the highest priority threat.

Exactly. And the wereweagles will go after me. I'm sure of it. They want to bump me off before I can become a threat. Think about this: if I'm not lynched, they can just kill me tonight and boom, 1 faction down completely. If they go after anyone else, there's a chance that I might figure out/guess who that is, and will grow in power. I can't win if I'm dead, can I? Self-preservation in the short-term trumps my long-range win-con at this moment, so I have to ally with Town, as mentioned.

I do want to say one thing. I've been very aggressive in voting for Memo. I really do apologize if that is coming off as personally against you, Memo. That isn't the case. I honestly just think the role you were given is a big threat to the town. That isn't your fault, and I wouldn't/don't blame you for playing it as you have to. I just wanted to say that, in case I came off the wrong way.

No worries about this. As I said, even I wouldn't trust me, if roles were reversed. But I'm making desperation moves here, just to stay alive. I'm not smart enough to play Xanatos Speed Chess.
I went after Duckay because she got under my skin at the exact wrong time with specifically the way she worded things, and apparently, I ended up doing the same to her.

Change vote: Shorten

I've chosen to read this as retracting Extend and voting Shorten but note that the two time based votes are unrelated. You can vote for both Extend and Shorten at the same time.

I was unaware of this. However, my votes were Extend, Shorten, then Extend again, under the assumption that I was flipping my vote each time. Did that mess you up in counting everything? Do we need a recount?

In any case, I've made up my mind. Change Vote: Duckay This is based on the new information, logic, and my cooler head.

Also, if the server could stop going down, that would be great.

Planned upgrades by Ashton encountered unplanned hiccups, apparently.

[Mono_Snorsh]

I was unaware of this. However, my votes Extend, Shorten, then Extend again, under the assumption that I was flipping my vote each time. Did that mess you up in counting everything? Do we need a recount?

I currently have you as voting for shorten, but I will accept this as a retraction of your shorten vote.

[AdmiralMemo]

For the record, my edit was making my question to Mono_Snorsh purple, because I forgot, because I'm tired and it's late.

[Duckay]

This doesn't gibe with me. I don't understand being pro-Mafia at this point.

Not pro-mafia exactly, but certainly not anti-mafia. If you're playing to your win condition, your best bet is to keep some number of mafia alive so you have potential targets for your night ability. With no mafia, you have no targets. Now, you yourself are a potential mafia target, but you are not "pro-town" to the same extent that a townie is, for sure.

Now, just to clear the air about the "manipulation": speaking in general terms I have had people in my life try to "keep me in line" as it were and make me do things they wanted me to do by telling me that my actions were making them depressed, that I wasn't letting them be themselves, and that I was making them want to kill themselves and if they did it would be my fault. Not because I was being a big baddy and a meanie and insulting them and keeping them down, because I'm sure that's where some minds went, unless you count saying, for example, "I want to break up with you because you cheated on me" as being "mean" and "a bully". Which I guess if you think I deserved it, that's fine. But mostly it left me feeling hurt and confused and like if I did anything to upset anyone and they were subsequently depressed or God forbid hurt themselves it would be my fault.

Fast forward to now, some of the things AdmiralMemo said just twigged me the wrong way, about how we "weren't letting him have fun" and this was making him depressed. This made me feel stressed and angry and upset because it brought back a lot of painful memories of similar words being deliberately used against me.

Edit: just to be clear none of that should be taken as "lynch him" or "don't lynch me". I wasn't trying to make an in-game point, just explain why I acted the way I did.

[Smeghead]

(Son of a... we were on page 7 when I went to bed! So much information to process, and it looks like you guys leave me with the deciding vote. Honestly, my silly mind has been robbing me of sleep because I keep having bad-ich dreams about this game :/

Alright, we got an extension again, and I'll take my time and read through all this during the day)

[Smeghead]

(Oh wait, no I don't really have the deciding vote anymore after Memo change his vote to Ducky, at most I could create a stalemate. Anyway give me a few hours to get through all this stuff (Mono is probably sleeping now anyway))

[Jamfalcon]

Take your time, things got pretty crazy for a while there and I think everyone wore themselves out for a little bit.

[AdmiralMemo]

*hugs Duckay* Sorry to hear that. It was the heat of the moment, and I clearly wasn't blaming you specifically. Even when I was wrong, my "you" was plural, as in "all of you in this situation." Maybe I should've said "y'all" instead? But would a high-class noble say "y'all"?






You're still my lynch target, though. No hard feelings.

Not pro-mafia exactly, but certainly not anti-mafia. If you're playing to your win condition, your best bet is to keep some number of mafia alive so you have potential targets for your night ability. With no mafia, you have no targets. Now, you yourself are a potential mafia target, but you are not "pro-town" to the same extent that a townie is, for sure.

Oh, no, I am definitely not pro-Town. Just "my interests (i.e. I have to stay alive if I'm to make my first Revenant, and I need to make a Revenant in order to win, because I have no direct killing powers by myself) currently align with Town on Day 2." As I said, I need assistance if I'm to not die, and since I have no current Revenants, and Mafia can very easily bump me off in two ways (either swaying a lynch or just a direct kill tonight), there's no reason for me to ally with them right now, especially if there are two of them, which I completely cannot handle at all by myself. Maybe if I can pick up a Revenant, I can start picking off the Mafia via lynches, but not alone.

[Mono_Snorsh]

But would a high-class noble say "y'all"?

There's always "ye" : ).

[AdmiralMemo]

I've been having trouble sleeping, and I've had ideas going through my head. I've been thinking about what Duckay said...

You know... I could ally with Mafia at this point. It could work out. They could kill, I could raise. Yeah, this could work out. We could rid ourselves of the pesky Townies. I just need to know who they are and who they're killing, so I know who to ally with. Since I don't know who's Mafia or not, if they could could raise their hands and tell me that they're Mafia and who they plan to kill tonight, that'd be great.

*crickets*

No?