Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

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Robo4900
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby Robo4900 » 31 Oct 2015, 02:42

This has been great. Pretty crazy at times(Mostly during the monstrous second day), but I enjoyed it.
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby MetricFurlong » 31 Oct 2015, 04:04

Huh, and here I was preparing to break down my list of 'reasons Jamfalcon is totes a revenant' :P


Kapol wrote:I figured it was my best chance, especially since Jam's ability doesn't seem like it'd have been affected by my ability. Plus, since it only worked until I did a kill, it would help if anyone tried to double checked. I didn't consider that Jam was the only 'possible' other person, and honestly didn't know Godfather was a known thing. Honestly, I was pretty dead when Duckay's message said there was another wereweagle.

Due to priority you'd probably have been safe for one round at least

I have... other thoughts about things. But I might wait until I'm not exhausted to share them, to avoid coming off as ranting.

If this is about revealing PMs, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Although given that Town had two invesitgators + a secret society pair it might not have made much difference anyway (especially if Duckay couldn't investigate and kill in the same night).
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby Duckay » 31 Oct 2015, 04:16

I'm not a fan of revealing PMs in general, whether town or mafia, so I'm also inclined to agree with that. I just don't fancy the strategy.

I'm also surprised by the sheer power level of the game (though that's not a complaint; just an observation). It was pretty unexpected for me to functionally have 3 investigators, 2 (or maybe 1.5) villain groups and a pair of secret society members as well as a roleblocker. That's a lot of power being slung around the table!
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby Mono_Snorsh » 31 Oct 2015, 06:13

Duckay wrote:I'm also surprised by the sheer power level of the game (though that's not a complaint; just an observation). It was pretty unexpected for me to functionally have 3 investigators, 2 (or maybe 1.5) villain groups and a pair of secret society members as well as a roleblocker. That's a lot of power being slung around the table!


I would be shocked if anyone wasn't surprised by the power level : ).

This is a good opportunity to point out something I've been having to resist most of the game: korvys was (mostly) a jailkeeper ( http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper ) not a roleblocker.
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby MetricFurlong » 31 Oct 2015, 08:17

Mono_Snorsh wrote:
Duckay wrote:I'm also surprised by the sheer power level of the game (though that's not a complaint; just an observation). It was pretty unexpected for me to functionally have 3 investigators, 2 (or maybe 1.5) villain groups and a pair of secret society members as well as a roleblocker. That's a lot of power being slung around the table!


I would be shocked if anyone wasn't surprised by the power level : ).

I wasn't necessarily surprised by the power level, but then I've only really played one online game of mafia before and that was also of the 'everyone gets a special role' variety so I didn't have many expectations one way or the other.
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby Mono_Snorsh » 31 Oct 2015, 13:03

MetricFurlong wrote:I wasn't necessarily surprised by the power level, but then I've only really played one online game of mafia before and that was also of the 'everyone gets a special role' variety so I didn't have many expectations one way or the other.


Fair enough.
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby Duckay » 31 Oct 2015, 13:30

Mono_Snorsh wrote:This is a good opportunity to point out something I've been having to resist most of the game: korvys was (mostly) a jailkeeper ( http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper ) not a roleblocker.


I always thought a jailkeeper was a specific kind of roleblocker. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby Mono_Snorsh » 31 Oct 2015, 13:44

Duckay wrote:I always thought a jailkeeper was a specific kind of roleblocker. Sorry for the misunderstanding.


A special kind of roleblocker isn't a bad way to think of a jailkeeper, after all the jailkeeper shares as much with the roleblocker as the doctor. Unlike regular roleblockers though knowing that there's a jailkeeper around makes a doctor unlikely to be also around in the setup.
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby AdmiralMemo » 31 Oct 2015, 16:27

Mono_Snorsh wrote:knowing that there's a jailkeeper around makes a doctor unlikely to be also around in the setup.
Unless that person is a Doctor/Miller, like I tried to make myself out to be. :-D
Actually, if anyone tries to use that type of thing legit in a future game, I should dub it "Doctor Without Borders" or something. :-D
I love twisting truths. :-) I would show up as Anti-Town if investigated, and there would be no game "death" that night if I used my powers, so Doctor/Miller makes sense. :-)

This game was fun, except for when Duckay and I went after each other on Day 2. Sorry about that. We were both at bad places at the same time. *hugs*

Anyway, in general, I had fun. :-) Revealing my role fully was what helped me survive until the end, but I knew it would kill me eventually. It was either die there or die later, so I chose to die later.

I really did like pitting Jam and Metric against each other with "Who's the Revenant?" :-D

What I think really pulled the power level of this game up was not any of the power roles, but simply having the Secret Society between Robo and Smeg. In a larger game, having 2 people in a society wouldn't be as powerful or noticeable. But having a full quarter of the group being essentially untargetable was powerful in this game.

I just wish I could've made at least one Revenant, though. But the only possible time to do that would've been Night 1, had I targeted korvys instead. But none of us know what was going on Day 1, so Night 1 was essentially a random draw.

Go ahead. Look in the QuickTopic and see me talking to my non-existent Revenants. :-D
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby Kapol » 31 Oct 2015, 16:38

MetricFurlong wrote:If this is about revealing PMs, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Although given that Town had two invesitgators + a secret society pair it might not have made much difference anyway (especially if Duckay couldn't investigate and kill in the same night).


I was going to mention that. But it was more because I knew if I posted in the state I was in, it'd be more of an incoherent rambling than anything useful. The revealing thing is the only actual issue I had with the game. It bothered me. Though, as you said, it was unlikely to make a difference.

If I had decided to reveal rather than keeping my stance, I would have used something like this:

You are the Mayor. You've lived in Jerfton for your entire life, having grown amongst the community as one it's own. Your charisma has lead to you becoming the mayor of the town. Many look to you for guidance and with respect.

Protected: Given your position and stature, some townsfolk have chosen to watch your house to make sure you're safe. You cannot be killed during the night.


As for the town's power, I was going to mention that too. Between two investigators (one of which could hit if it saw the target or the ones doing it), the secret society, and a jailer that could also be a mafia-only kill role, we were in a rough spot.

I honestly think the main thing that really killed us was Robo and Smeg's connection. It meant that, rather than 7 possible choices for mafia, there were only 5 by day two. That also meant that I couldn't try to confuse things more by saying one of them was actually the revenant.

That said, the power level thing doesn't bother me as much. It's hard to really balance a powered game like that well. I think that, on paper, the mafia's pluses add up to the town's power. But investigation (which Duckay could do as well as the kill) seems kind of pointless when anyone is a good target. Memo's ability was strong, but it had a low chance to hit. Mine was actually very strong. But Duckay's message kind of ruined my hopes of playing it off as only having one Wereweagle, as well as hinting towards the godfather role.

MetricFurlong wrote:Due to priority you'd probably have been safe for one round at least


I don't think against Jam's, I would have. I was told that I'd only come up as town in investigations. Your role got a static answer, and I would avoid it the night I chose to kill. But given he was able to see Memo's choices despite being a lower priority, I'm confident he'd have seen mine.

That said, I think the 'correct' play if I'd realized my position would have been to target you. If Memo chose you, that'd mean there'd be three mafia, and hopefully you'd side with me the next night, since the wereweagles would be the only chance that the undead had to win. If I hit you, then I'd have less convincing to do. But I hadn't considered I was the last option for the second weagle.

I will say that I played everything as a member of town. If I had been town, I'd have been very confident there was only one wereweagle (which there would have been). As such, I'd have pushed for Memo to be lynched, as that'd make it basically impossible for us to lose. I still would have been against revealing. And, while I may have actually leaned towards Duckay for suspicion, I think it'd have been a toss up between the two for day two.


The only real complaint I have is that I'm not a fan of the days being extendable. It can lead to days dragging on, and makes it harder for the mafia to navigate things in their favor, I feel. But honestly, it didn't hurt to try it, at least.

Also, I remembered why I don't play mafia games. I almost always end up as mafia somehow. And I dislike playing as a mafia member. Though this is the first time I think I actively lied. Maybe I'll try running one more like the previous I've done. But we'll just have to wait and see if I can get an idea.

...for wanting to wait to post, I still managed to ramble.

AdmiralMemo wrote:I really did like pitting Jam and Metric against each other with "Who's the Revenant?"


Honestly, even though the last day had me dead, I'm glad I chose not to target anyone. It did add an excellent sense of "who's the traitor?" to things, as I had hoped to exploit. And, to be fair, I -did- say that not targeting was a possibility. :P
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby Mono_Snorsh » 31 Oct 2015, 19:06

AdmiralMemo wrote:What I think really pulled the power level of this game up was not any of the power roles, but simply having the Secret Society between Robo and Smeg. In a larger game, having 2 people in a society wouldn't be as powerful or noticeable. But having a full quarter of the group being essentially untargetable was powerful in this game.


That's true. Its worth noting that masons are only reliably town once one of them has died (otherwise obviously the mafia would just claim to be masons). That plus the selfish win condition encourages people to lay low and leaves room for policy lynches against them in the absence of information were what I was thinking of as controls for secret society.

AdmiralMemo wrote:Anyway, in general, I had fun. :-) Revealing my role fully was what helped me survive until the end, but I knew it would kill me eventually. It was either die there or die later, so I chose to die later.


There was enough potential content around in Day 2 that you probably could have survived by just sticking to your miller-doctor claim. There wasn't really that big of a case against you. Of course a big chunk of that content only became visible after your non-mafia anti-town reveal came out so the try to survive this day at any cost and hope you hit with Dark Resurrection the coming Night thing was a defensible plan.

AdmiralMemo wrote:I just wish I could've made at least one Revenant, though. But the only possible time to do that would've been Night 1, had I targeted korvys instead. But none of us know what was going on Day 1, so Night 1 was essentially a random draw.


I must admit that I was hoping you'd pick up at least one myself. I should reuse the necromancer role at some point so it can have another chance at demonstrating how powerful it really is (though I'll just switch to a normal medium ability for Necromancy. In hindsight that was excessively baroque.). Night 1 was definitely going to be at best not that far from a random draw but the lack of a lynch to make the odds better probably didn't help.

Kapol wrote:I was going to mention that. But it was more because I knew if I posted in the state I was in, it'd be more of an incoherent rambling than anything useful. The revealing thing is the only actual issue I had with the game. It bothered me. Though, as you said, it was unlikely to make a difference.


To clarify, do you mean the ability to straight quote the role PM?

Kapol wrote:The only real complaint I have is that I'm not a fan of the days being extendable. It can lead to days dragging on, and makes it harder for the mafia to navigate things in their favor, I feel. But honestly, it didn't hurt to try it, at least.


Honestly extendable days wasn't even something I was experimenting with. It was mostly just an import from the rulesets I've had experience with. Three days plus extensions is really more like week length turns for important days except it gives people another thing to be active about. I don't think I'll change that, but I think switching to giving the mafia day and night chat by default would be a good idea for slower speed mafia games. I was leery about it because it can lead to most of the mafia doing a lot of following the lead of more experience players but it also has a lot of advantages.
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby AdmiralMemo » 31 Oct 2015, 20:23

I'm also against revealing the PMs, and if you noticed, I only did so reluctantly as long as I could stretch it out for.
Kapol wrote:The only real complaint I have is that I'm not a fan of the days being extendable. It can lead to days dragging on, and makes it harder for the mafia to navigate things in their favor, I feel. But honestly, it didn't hurt to try it, at least.
See, I am in favor of extending, but not infinite extending. Maybe just once is fine.
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby Mono_Snorsh » 31 Oct 2015, 20:34

To be honest its not even in Town's best interest to extend too much. More time is good for the town but its also important to keep an eye on everyone's energy levels.
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby MetricFurlong » 01 Nov 2015, 04:47

Mono_Snorsh wrote:
I must admit that I was hoping you'd pick up at least one myself. I should reuse the necromancer role at some point so it can have another chance at demonstrating how powerful it really is


The problem with the necromancer isn't that it's not powerful it's that it's inconsistently powerful. If it hits, it's likely to dominate the game, to the point where I suspect you gave Town two investigators and the masons specifically as a protection mechanism against it. But then if it doesn't hit it leaves the standard mafia up against a much more challenging set of targets than they'd otherwise have to deal with.

Point being it's a highly random role in terms of it's impact, which seems like it might be difficult to effectively balance.
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Re: Fantasy Mafia: Game Finished

Postby AdmiralMemo » 01 Nov 2015, 05:10

To me, that sounds something like Red Elemental Blast in Magic: Really powerful if your opponent is in blue, but a dead card otherwise. And prior to sitting down with your decks, you have no idea what it's going to be.
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