Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby the amativeness » 04 Jun 2009, 17:10

/vote ThrashJazzAssassin

unvote

Sorry. Just had to.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Smidge » 04 Jun 2009, 17:42

He should sue you. ( ok silly joke, but hey come on it's so easy based on your location )
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby the amativeness » 04 Jun 2009, 17:56

Well... damn you!
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Sillyman » 04 Jun 2009, 18:24

ThrashJazzAssassin wrote:Hmmm... I notice there is currently an odd number of players. Can't have that.


Actually, if there were to be an odd number of players when the game starts, I would make the odd man out a Jester.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby ThrashJazzAssassin » 04 Jun 2009, 18:42

Okay, I guess that makes sense.

Hmmm... it's just occurred to me that no one will have any clear evidence for their choice of lynchee on the first day, and I have the word "assassin" in my username. Can I be called Cuddles the Friendly Chinchilla for the duration of this game?
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Hawkaris » 04 Jun 2009, 21:14

ThrashJazzAssassin wrote:Okay, I guess that makes sense.

Hmmm... it's just occurred to me that no one will have any clear evidence for their choice of lynchee on the first day, and I have the word "assassin" in my username. Can I be called Cuddles the Friendly Chinchilla for the duration of this game?


We'll all have dopplegangers, so it won't be a complete information void, and some games institute a Night Zero to gather evidence, too. Don't worry, Cuddles; I doubt we'll have to resort to the old fallback of "Who looks the most like a killer?"
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby ThrashJazzAssassin » 05 Jun 2009, 02:56

Wasn't really too worried.

I've been trying to decide whose avatar looks most like a killer. Which was no contest once I remembered Hakaryu is on the list. Although I find Smidge's current lack of avatar highly suspicious.... Image
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Smidge » 05 Jun 2009, 06:30

Can we private PM our dopple's? or are they unknown to us?
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Sillyman » 05 Jun 2009, 07:45

Yes, you know who your doppleganger is and can talk to them privately during all hours of the day.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Metcarfre » 05 Jun 2009, 07:59

So let me see if I have this straight, because this game sounds weird as shit.

1) We ARE playing Mafia, right (I.E. there are town, and mafia, and maybe some neutrals, or other parties, and win conditions are similar to a standard game)?

2) There are two instances of each role (doctor, cop, etc.).

3) Each instance can communicate with their counterpart at any time via PM, including daytime.

(3)-> This one I have a problem with, because IMO there should be no secret communication in the daytime, as it detracts from the essence of the game. That is, the basis of the fun of Mafia is two things; scheming to overthrow your enemies, and making wild accusations and using convoluted logic to lynch people in the daytime. If players can communicate in the daytime it detracts from both, because they can simply set up voting patterns and strategies as each change and accusation happens. It would also probably slow the game down a lot as each participant waits for PMs before they respond to the thread. The daytime would be less of logic and detective work and more of alliances and political maneuvering. Less Mafia, more Survivor, if you will.

Also, you now have invincible Doctors (can heal themselves or each other every night).
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Hawkaris » 05 Jun 2009, 09:46

metcarfre wrote:Also, you now have invincible Doctors (can heal themselves or each other every night).


That's not quite how I understood it. We each have a look-alike, but I think they don't necessarily have to have our role or our affiliation/win-condition. Of course, that could be wildly off the mark.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Sillyman » 05 Jun 2009, 09:56

metcarfre wrote:So let me see if I have this straight, because this game sounds weird as shit.

1) We ARE playing Mafia, right (I.E. there are town, and mafia, and maybe some neutrals, or other parties, and win conditions are similar to a standard game)?

2) There are two instances of each role (doctor, cop, etc.).

3) Each instance can communicate with their counterpart at any time via PM, including daytime.

(3)-> This one I have a problem with, because IMO there should be no secret communication in the daytime, as it detracts from the essence of the game. That is, the basis of the fun of Mafia is two things; scheming to overthrow your enemies, and making wild accusations and using convoluted logic to lynch people in the daytime. If players can communicate in the daytime it detracts from both, because they can simply set up voting patterns and strategies as each change and accusation happens. It would also probably slow the game down a lot as each participant waits for PMs before they respond to the thread. The daytime would be less of logic and detective work and more of alliances and political maneuvering. Less Mafia, more Survivor, if you will.

Also, you now have invincible Doctors (can heal themselves or each other every night).


1: Yes.
2: Yes.
3: Yes, and Mafia and masons have always been like this in every mafia game ever that I know of, and it has never posed a problem. To clarify, you can only talk privately with your one doppleganger (or other mafia pairs if you're mafia), not just anyone, which I agree would be ridiculous.
4: Yes, and Doctors have always been like this except when self-healing is explicitly forbidden (even when it isn't, it's like sacrificing your doctor power for a bulletproof townie power, which is slightly weaker IMO, since you could be protecting someone with other powers). Anyway, I could forbid healing the other doctor as well, since they know who each other are.
Hawkaris: No, dopplegangers always have exactly the same power. Even the mafia.

Also, since I forsee balance being somewhat tricky, if I could get a second opinion it'd be great. PM me if you wish to help. Oh, and even players can help, I'll just work it into their role that they know the setup, it's a fairly well established roletype.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Metcarfre » 05 Jun 2009, 10:03

Sillyman wrote:Yes, and Mafia and masons have always been like this in every mafia game ever that I know of, and it has never posed a problem.


Interesting, I've never played a game where you can communicate in the daytime.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Sillyman » 05 Jun 2009, 10:10

metcarfre wrote:
Sillyman wrote:Yes, and Mafia and masons have always been like this in every mafia game ever that I know of, and it has never posed a problem.


Interesting, I've never played a game where you can communicate in the daytime.

Well, I started playing mafia on the forums of a game company called Hamumu Software. They make some pretty cool games. (I'm Sillyman there, by the way.) And yeah, there are some trends they have there, especially since they recently split into two leagues to speed things up, so A league games tend to have 8 people and interesting experimental ideas. And yeah, that's where I got used to private daytime communication and last gasps where you can say anything you could say while awake.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Metcarfre » 05 Jun 2009, 10:15

I guess the reason I prefer to play by the "standard" rules (if you will), is I consider the forum-based game to be an analog of the in-person game that I often play with my friends. In that case, you're all sitting in a circle, so mafia communicating with one another directly in daytime is impossible without being found out. Night-time communication is done entirely non-verbally as well (winks, eyerolls, pointing, etc).

The reality is it makes a different game - not bad, just different. Again, thanks for clearing up the rules, and you might consider compiling them for everyone who is used to a different game style just so we're on the same page.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Sillyman » 05 Jun 2009, 10:30

metcarfre wrote:I guess the reason I prefer to play by the "standard" rules (if you will), is I consider the forum-based game to be an analog of the in-person game that I often play with my friends. In that case, you're all sitting in a circle, so mafia communicating with one another directly in daytime is impossible without being found out. Night-time communication is done entirely non-verbally as well (winks, eyerolls, pointing, etc).


Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I tried that once and... it wasn't very fun, really. I like the strategic aspects of mafia.

So, rules:

0. There are players and a host, who are all members of the LRR forums.
1. There is a day phase, and a night phase. The game starts during the day, and the phases alternate, each one ending when no powers described as "phase-blocking" remain to be used.
2. Each player has a power, a victory condition, (optionally) a group, and a doppleganger. They (typically) know what all of these are, as disclosed to them by the host.
3. Each player's doppleganger has the same power, win condition, and group as that player. A player's doppleganger's doppleganger is themselves.
4. During the day, anybody may post in the thread or send a PM to their doppleganger or members of their group as many times as they wish, at any time.
5. During the night, anybody may send a PM to their doppleganger or members of their group as many times as they wish, at any time. They (unless specified otherwise) cannot post in the thread.
6. A power typically defines actions a player may take during the day or night, but usually the night. They may use these actions as described in their power.
7. A player's victory condition, is, of course, the conditions under which they win. The game is over when all victory conditions are either met or impossible to meet. Certain victory conditions (such as "survive until the end of the game") may cease to be met after being met.
8. Most players may be described as either "townies" or "mafia". Townies are all players who win by killing all the mafia. Mafia are all players who belong to the mafia group, and typically win by making the townies unable to win (which usually occurs when mafia comprise over 50% of the population).
9. Each day, each player (unless specified otherwise) has one vote which they may assign to any other player. They do so by saying "Vote: Playername", which must be in bold. They may unassign and reassign this vote by saying "Unvote", which again must be in bold.
10. When a player has the majority of votes that may be cast, they are killed. This event is phase-blocking.
11. When a player is killed, they may no longer post in the thread or PM their doppleganger or group with mafia-related discussion. However, they are allowed one last post, in which they may say anything they could say while alive. This post may be made during the night, but must be made before 24 hours expires in either game time or real time, whichever comes first.
12. Mafia-related discussion may not occur outside the thread or permitted PMs.
13. Quoting mafia-related PMs from the host is not permitted, unless specified otherwise.
14. If a player breaks any rule that is physically possible to break, action shall be taken as deemed appropriate by the host.
15. Rules are subject to change.
Last edited by Sillyman on 05 Jun 2009, 17:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Zivlok » 05 Jun 2009, 14:26

I'm in.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby CanCarter » 05 Jun 2009, 15:55

I'm in.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Jillers » 05 Jun 2009, 16:35

metcarfre wrote:I guess the reason I prefer to play by the "standard" rules (if you will), is I consider the forum-based game to be an analog of the in-person game that I often play with my friends. In that case, you're all sitting in a circle, so mafia communicating with one another directly in daytime is impossible without being found out. Night-time communication is done entirely non-verbally as well (winks, eyerolls, pointing, etc).


Same here (and I personally find the in-person game to be more fun, not that the forum game isn't also fun).
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby the amativeness » 05 Jun 2009, 16:43

Sillyman wrote:11. When a player is killed, they may no longer post in the thread or PM their doppleganger or group with mafia-related discussion. However, they are allowed one last post, in which they may say anything they could say while allive.


I want to voice my opinion AGAINST this rule. Once a character dies, they may no longer reveal any information. They are usually allowed one post (or more) that are simply a way of letting them "go out in style". Anything they would want to reveal should be said while they are still alive.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Sillyman » 05 Jun 2009, 16:55

the amativeness wrote:
Sillyman wrote:11. When a player is killed, they may no longer post in the thread or PM their doppleganger or group with mafia-related discussion. However, they are allowed one last post, in which they may say anything they could say while allive.


I want to voice my opinion AGAINST this rule. Once a character dies, they may no longer reveal any information. They are usually allowed one post (or more) that are simply a way of letting them "go out in style". Anything they would want to reveal should be said while they are still alive.


I already stated my stance on this matter. Several times.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Jillers » 05 Jun 2009, 17:01

But we don't have to reveal information if we don't want to when/if we die, correct?
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Sillyman » 05 Jun 2009, 17:36

Of course not. But... oh, I forgot a little something.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Master Gunner » 05 Jun 2009, 18:08

You should understand Sillyman, that rules like that go contrary to our entire way of thinking when it comes to Mafia. That's why we're so resistant, it's just not something we do here. If you want to try it, that's your prerogative, and it's nothing personal against you. It's just something we've all being conditioned against.
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Re: Doppleganger Mafia Signup Thread

Postby Sillyman » 05 Jun 2009, 18:11

And the fact that it is somehow inexplicably (even knowing where you're coming from) against your entire way of thinking is against my entire way of thinking (as evidenced by my use of the words somehow and inexplicably). So yes, I understand, it's just that I know how well it works and thus it's not so much "try it" as "introduce it to a new place".

Nonetheless, as I said, rules are subject to change, and this is a variable that may change depending on the balance (as is the starting phase), since it is a decidedly pro-town rule.
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