XBOX 360 Project Natal?

[Dave-O_Boy]

It looks pretty spiffy. At first I thought the Wii would just be completely gimmicky and lame, but after playing it I found it quite fun. I'm assuming this is the same.

Now if this was combined with that thing Sony made, they'd really have something interesting. Then they could add 3 other units to be places around the player and make things extremely interesting.

[Nevrmore]

Wait... The Wii is faltering and sinking?

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/NPD_April_2009

Console Sales, April 2009

Wii - 340,000
Xbox 360 - 175,000
PS2 - 172,000
PS3 - 127,000

Console Sales, YTD

Wii 2,373,200
360 1,205,000
PS3 824,200
PS2 516,200

Looks to me like the Wii is still "winning".

And I hear that Microsoft is going to be packaging the Natal hardware in with all new XBoxes once it's released, so it'll be interesting to see how developers make use of it.


P.S. Apparently over a million DSes were sold in April 2009, including 800,000+ of the new DSi models. Nintendo is continuing to clean up.

Touche, Tybalt. We shall meet again another day on the field of battle.

[Dominic Appleguard]

This system...seems stupid to me.

Sure, immersion is nice in a game, but in the real world people interact with physical objects by...interacting with physical objects. Seems a bit of a step backward to spend vast piles of R&D cash making Robo-Charades 360.

Mario platformers make quantum leaps because Nintendo tend to make them into grand, flagship projects that end up running way over the planned dev time, until they ultimately switch consoles.

It's like Duke Nukem Forever, but the game actually comes out in the end, and is good.

So, Galaxy 2 will either
A) come out when they say it does, and act as a sequel usually does, expanding on the core gameplay of the preceding game. In this case, I will be happy because Galaxy was great fun.
B) come out years from now under a new name, after switching to the new console, and still missing the launch title window by a good two months. It will probably rock pretty hard anyway.

[Dominic Appleguard]

I decided to mock this up after my last post.

[JesterJ.]

Now, I haven't read much about it, but it seems similar to the gimmicky crap called the Eye Toy, albeit an Eye Toy with better technology. I probably won't get it for the same reason I didn't get a Wii: I don't want to be moving my arms/body around when I'm playing games, I want to just relax with a controller in my hand.

[Sillyman]

This system...seems stupid to me.

Sure, immersion is nice in a game, but in the real world people interact with physical objects by...interacting with physical objects. Seems a bit of a step backward to spend vast piles of R&D cash making Robo-Charades 360.

Well, I thought about this for a while... and realized that Natal, if used to its fullest, will basically be about breaking the laws of physics (or going into dangerous/impractical to set up situations) while still being controlled somewhat like reality. Which sounds like a holodeck without the hardlight projection, really. Or perhaps a good way to describe it would be a reverse holodeck: instead of projecting a world around you, they project you into the world.

Which kinda sorta makes it sound worthwhile... if people do good things with it.

[zfubarz]

http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/20 ... natal.html

This guy seems pretty into it. I don't know how valid his claims are though, but from what I can tell it's good.

Tim pretty much everyone is saying it works much better than everything in the past.

Zivlok I'm gonna guess what's being called city jumping is about showing off and looking fancy. Now you know somebody else who's been a fan and participant of parkour for a while and a british friend of mine has actually run around with Sebastien Foucan, one of the originators of the sport also know as the guy from Casino Royale.

If you wanna know more detail feel free to make a topic over on general or something, it really is fascinating, but I shouldn't derail this topic too much.

[Master Gunner]

Well here's Felicia Day trying it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYuJivFFa-c

She seems to like it, and there is certainly a lot of potential there, but I'm still more likely to stick with the regular controller.

[zfubarz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELcJHTRlRSc

There's one that actually shows a bit of burnout paradise being played.
That's pretty interesting really, It can track your feet enough to know if you're pushing down on the gas or not. If you can do that while sitting I see no reason it wouldn't work great, I'd probably grab my mario kart wheel for some tactile feeling but it'd still be cool.

God damn I forget how pale Felicia Day is till I see her against a white wall and she almost blends in.

Edit for more detail.

[Tim]

I wouldn't want to play a racing game where I have to steer without any kind of tactile feedback. It would be really imprecise. Steering with the Mario Kart steering wheel thing is bad enough.

[Dave-O_Boy]

Felicia Day is so pretty.

But anyway. It certainly looks fun, but it'll be hard to tear people away from the tactile experience of a controller.

[Sillyman]

I wouldn't want to play a racing game where I have to steer without any kind of tactile feedback. It would be really imprecise. Steering with the Mario Kart steering wheel thing is bad enough.

Yeah. My opinion is that if there's going to be something in your hands the entire game, use a controller or at least a physical form substitute. And that's why motion control racing games work best on the Wii... unless the camera is smart enough to see you holding a wheel and judge the same way as if you were pantomiming?

[Master Gunner]

But even then, you still have the problem that I much prefer laying down on the couch, or laying back with the controller on my legs, in a manner that really isn't compatible with the Natal (unless they make a slacking game.....which they should). At least the wii allowed me some of that, as for the most part I could play games from a relaxed position.

[Dominic Appleguard]

[Eclectic Dreck]

In my opinion, the Wii barely counts as a game console. It seems like they don't care at all about hardcore gamers sometimes. Look at Super Mario Galaxy 2, "Hey guess what guys and gals, here's a real game for you that's basically the same as the one we made two years ago, but with yoshi. Enjoy!"

Why make games for the hardcore when one can make money hand over fist making games for everyone else?

Currently, the only system I don't own is a Wii, and this is simply the natural result of the Nintendo strategy for world domination. Most of the games that seem fun don't have much staying power for me, and the handful of games that I would actually spend some time with aren't worth the cost of ownership of the system. Most people I know who own Wii's rarely play games, and in fact their Wii did little to increase their gaming time. Instead of playing Bewjewled or Peggle on their home computer, they bought a system that essentially offers a giant mountain of games aimed at the casual market. But where bewjewled or peggle could (and can) be had for a pittance, wii games sell for 50 USD new.

In fact, of the people who own Wii's that I know, most only own or have even played 2 - 3 games, and often at least one of these games is hardly a game in the traditional sense of the word (Wii fit). It seems to me that the Wii has a small core of actual gamers and a vast hoard of people who, from time to time may be found to play a game. This second group tends to rarely make gaming purchases and when they do it's because of some amazing new gizmo (or even amazingly cheap piece of molded plastic). The balance board, like motion capture has potential for use in games, but I've yet to see either leveraged in such a way that the motion seemed natural (or something I'd want to do for more than an hour at a stretch) or fun. At their best, Wii games come close enough to reality that I find I'd rather be doing the real thing (Wii tennis or bowling for example), but most of the time the motion control is just another abstract interface mechanism that does nothing to increase immersion and often makes it more difficult to imput desired commands.

[Master Gunner]

Honestly, the only Wii game that I still play (and that rarely) is WiiSports, and occasionally NES games I've gotten off the VC. Red Steel I think I played once, Mario Galaxy I played a few times and stopped, and I haven't really gotten any new games for it because with what little money I have, the 360 offers me better value (even when it comes to party games, as Rock Band has more DLC on the 360 iirc).

For the natal, I probably won't buy it or any of its games, because even as party and gimmick games go, I doubt they'll have any staying power with me. Seeing as I'll be entering university on student loans (albeit with a xanatos gambit in mind, but still), I can't afford to risk it. Not to mention that first-year dorm rooms don't really have the space for the Natal.

[Genghis Ares]

I know we'll be getting Natal, since my father is a MS alumni I can get it for cheaper, so I'll definitely be trying it out.

Also, MS, has come out and said that they are supposedly developing AAA titles for it. Depending on what the games will actually be, it seems like it will probably be pretty fun. Something like Scene It would work well, and other casual games but I really would like to see what the Hardcore games might be.

I think Natal could do very well to supplement a game with a real controller, but I still want to see them try to do a complete game in just motion control.

[zfubarz]

I think epic and bungie are both supposed to be developing already. which are the 2 big 360 exclusive devs (I guess lionhead counts too)

Even stuff like menu navigation in Halo Reach would be interesting, along the lines of minority report.

[Jillers]

I'm going to admit that, right now I am in a surly mood, so if this comes off as bitchy, please make note that I am not intending to offend, even if it seems that way.

Ok. Point one. I have a Wii, and I don't play games a lot on it, but I don't regret having it at all. Why? Because whenever I do play it, it's a lot of fun, and playing the games on it remind me of playing games when I was a kid for a reason I can't exactly explain, that has nothing to do with the VC (I don't use it), or anything else other than how playing the games makes me feel. It really irks me when so called "hardcore gamers"look down on the Wii (and some, on the people who use and defend it). There is nothing wrong with casual games, and I really think some gamers need to take the stick out of their asses and admit that having fun while playing a game (whatever you find fun about it) is a valid reason for wanting to play a game, and doesn't speak about the legitimacy of said gamer.

Onto Project Natal: It seems really neat, if it can do what they say it can do. Would I get it? Yeah probably, if I had the money - because I enjoy being immersed in a video game, and Project Natal has lots of potential. I think it will be lots of fun. Not wanting to get up and move is a really...[mumble mumble] reason for not liking it, or being overly cynical of it, or downright against it.. it's completely fair to say that it doesn't seem like your type of thing, but it certainly in my type of thing, and other people's type of thing, and shouldn't (yet) be treated as an illegitimate means of control (until it's actually released, and we can tell then).

/rant

(This isn't directed at anyone in this thread in particular, and like I said, I apologize again for my bad mood - which has nothing to do with this thread... anyway, ... you know, keep on keepin' on)

[Sillyman]

having fun while playing a game (whatever you find fun about it) is a valid reason for wanting to play a game, and doesn't speak about the legitimacy of said gamer.

Thank. You. I am kind of a "hardcore casual" gamer.... I enjoy "casual" games, and they're probably the genre (pseudo-genre?) I play the most, but they're more than just a "quick break" for me, unlike how most casual gamers treat them (hence the term). Why do I like casual games? The same reason I like indie games: they're usually fun, often innovative, and frequently free.

The same can be said of many WiiWare games (minus the free part unless you homebrew, sadly). And I expect a few of those qualities in at least one game that uses Natal (along with, so I've heard [I might be getting an Xbox soon as my secondary console], existing Xbox Live Arcade games).

[Genghis Ares]

Its not hard to enjoy casual games, but I always would rather play something I can immerse myself in and really sink my teeth into.

[Sillyman]

And I do just that (well, almost) with most "casual" games, interestingly enough. It just lasts shorter.

[Kag]

You know, I'm not buying this whole immersion thing. I think if you want the player to buy into your illusion, the worst thing to do is remind them that they're still very much in the real world by having them take significant physical action.

[Genghis Ares]

If I can feel like I'm blowing a Super-Mutant's head off with a Hunting Rifle, then I'll but into it 100%.

[Nevrmore]

So maybe this has been addressed already and I'm behind the times, but watching the video of Felicia Day jumping around like she's on the strings of a crazy puppeteer made me wonder: What exactly does Natal mean for disabled people? People who literally don't have the ability to physically exert themselves like the games that Natal has demoed have demanded? Has Microsoft said anything about supplementing the Natal with anything to help them? I mean, it seems to me like guys who can't stand, walk, or do other such things that physically able people can do would probably have a higher proclivity of turning to video games and the like. If I were paraplegic and as big into gaming as I am, I think I would take the unveiling of Natal as a big, personal "Fuck you!"