TTC - Theorizing Mill

[Graham]

The crew cracks a pack of Saviors of Kamigawa, ponders the chances of a Standard mill deck, and talk briefly about Theros draft.

[Lancer]

The idea of these "for each card in hand" works interestingly in theory with splice onto arcane stuff, where you might be holding onto a few cards to keep splicing them.

... The problem is, these aren't arcane cards, nor do they splice.

[Tarnquil]

Thought I'd throw out my standard Dimir Mill deck list, incase it helps Iain. This deck mainly uses Wight of Precinct Six, NightHowler and Consuming Aberration that get bigger the more that the opponent is milled. It also uses Mill as a secondary win con along with Duskmantle Guildmage to damage the opponent as they are milled. I decided to go with incidental and consistent mill, Grisly Spectacle and Paranoid Delusions, over cards like Tomb Scour, as I felt I needed more than effect than just milling from a card.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-millnight-train/

Comment, Suggestions or a better deck name are welcome.

[justjellyplz]

I actually came up with a really good mill deck that got me top 4 out of sixty-five people and consisted of the following cards

4x Mind Grind
4x Breaking//Entering
4x Wight of Precinct Six
4x Psychic Strike
4x Duskmantle Seer
4x Nightveil Specter
4x Duress
3x Whip of Erebos
3x Consuming Abberation
2x Thassa, God of the Sea
2x Traumatize
2x Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker
4x Temple of Deceit
8x Swamp
8x Island

If anyone has any question of to why I may some cards that don't make since, just ask and I'll tell you my main reason it's in the deck.

[Lancer]

Couple of things that you didn't exactly mention with the mill deck here:

Dimir Charm is a 4-of. Of course.
Crypt Incursion is disgustingly good in a mill deck. Helps against the aggro matchups to slow things down. Lifegain can be brutal if you're gaining a lot, and crypt incursion can gain a LOT if you're milling well.
If we're looking for alternate win conditions, Rise of the Dark Realms is a thing. I'd be a little hesitant to include it if you've got the abberations and such in there as it's another extremely high-cost card that won't be much use until you're done with the milling, but it's worth a go.
Duskmantle Guildmage's second ability is quite expensive for not nearly enough, but his first can hit hard.
Far and Away is being run hard in Esper control for a reason, cuz it's a pretty brutal effect and either one is satisfying really.
Curse of the Swine is just an awesome card. It's not really millish at all, I just love it and think that every Blue deck should at least consider running it.

[Arimil]

Eternal Dominion can be cloned, so if you cast it with say an Echo Mage on board you are now pulling 3 cards of your choice and playing them for free every turn. I mentioned Echo Mage because his ability isn't a spell itself so if they don't kill him by your next turn you can clone it again and have 5 Eternal Dominion copies go off.

Other cards that combo well with Eternal Dominion:
Uyo, Silent Prophet - From the same block, return 2 lands to copy a spell.
Sigil Tracer - Tap two wizards to copy a spell.
Dual Casting - Enchant a creature, tap to copy target spell you control for R.
Mischievous Quanar - Really expensive, 3BB turn the card face down. Morph 1BB when turned face up copy target spell.
Nivix Guildmage - 2BR Copy target spell you control.

[Narcuru]

So probably a long post since I know this set relatively well.

As bad as Kamigawa block was, Saviors was probably the worst part of it. The synergies with the rest of the set were "there" but not really. All the cards like Cowed by Wisdom were just bad, but they did have "combos" (loosest sense of the word) with some other commons like Charge Across Araba which had Sweep.

Sweep was "Return any number of [certain basic land] you control to their owner's hand. effect equal to number of lands returned. This would allow you to make the Cowed "better."

For the moonfolk (since all moonfolk returned at least one land to your hand) and the Elder Pine of Jukai there were a bunch of cards that allowed you to play additional lands somehow like Azusa, Lost but Seeking which allowed you to play two additional lands each turn. Also for the Elder Pine there was Loam Dweller which had the same proc but when you cast a spirit/arcane you can put a land into play tapped. Also Thief of Hope was a pretty nice card for that deck as it was a free extort for every spirit/arcane spell.

There was a cycle of legendary lands which could be "useful" (again loosest sense of the word) for that moonfolk: [url]http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&format=|[%22Kamigawa%20Block%22]&type=+[%22Legendary%22]+[%22Land%22][/url]

There wasn't really any good ETB effects in white in Kamigawa, but I remember my friend using it as a white Roaring Primadox in a casual constructed deck.

Enduring Ideal was probably one of the better Epic cards with Form of the Dragon (at least in casual circles). It kinda protects you, does five damage, then ten, etc. You could get Oblivion Ring and Meishin, the Mind Cage to protect you as well. Also you can still play lands so man lands were good in a deck like this.

[zukamori]

while decklist is no longer standard legal, I'm going to post it anyways. Its not going to win in any serious fights but its a fun casual deck for me, specially in multiplayer.

2x Increasing Confusion
3x Mind Grind
3x Stab Wound
2x Urban Evolution
4x Gatecreeper Vine
4x Fog Bank
2x Doorkeeper
4x Axebane Guardian
2x Hover Barrier
2x Trestle Troll
2x Undercity Informer
2x Tree of Redemption
2x Ogre Jailbreaker
2x Consuming aberration
1x Sepulchral Primordial
2x Simic Guildgate
2x Golgari Guildgate
1x Dimir Guildgate
6x Island
5x Swamp
7x Forest

[Professor STAFF]

Want to play mill? Play Modern.

Seriously, there's great options for viable Mill decks in Modern (much like any deck type you enjoy: RDW, Lifegain, reanimator, on and on and on). Modern is where it is at. Best of all, when you have a favorite deck that you love to play...you get to keep playing it. I am sick of the expiration date on my standard decks.

You guys don't sound like you play much (if any) Modern, but I'd highly recommend the format. Decks aren't as expensive as people seem to think.

[Dusk_Shine]

Want to play mill? Play Modern.

Seriously, there's great options for viable Mill decks in Modern (much like any deck type you enjoy: RDW, Lifegain, reanimator, on and on and on). Modern is where it is at. Best of all, when you have a favorite deck that you love to play...you get to keep playing it. I am sick of the expiration date on my standard decks.

You guys don't sound like you play much (if any) Modern, but I'd highly recommend the format. Decks aren't as expensive as people seem to think.

Oh yeah, Modern is super fun because you can just play damn near anything you want, and can build A TON of awesome decks.

I do find that there is a huge problem with some more "hardcore" players wanting to only build decks with like...4-ofs of super expensive, majorly powerful stuff, and they then make fun of or patronize people who can't afford to do so.

[ElFuzzy]

I have asked around the forums as I tend to play mill fairly religiously.

My favorite wombo combo is Mirko, Fireshrieker, and Psyionic Resonator.

[spelley]

Actually, Enduring Ideal is probably the best of the Epic cards in your Saviours pack (not for Limited though. God no). The card, during it's time in Standard, even made Top 8 in a Pro Tour.

Back in the day when I played it, the combo was Zur's Weirding, Form of the Dragon and various Confiscate/Ivory Mask/Genju's as supporting pieces with the available ramp in the day.

Let me know if you see the interaction between Form of the Dragon and Zur's Weirding...it's funny

[Yaxley]

Does James have [Endless Swarm] in his snake commander deck, because he should.

The time I played commander with James at PAX East, he totally cast it. And then we all got wrecked by a Novablast Wurm

[GreenGecko81]

I was excited for this episode at the mention of Standard mill, as I have a pretty good deck that has some success at FNM and even got me to 4-0 at M14 Game Day and won me a sweet play mat.

2 Consuming Aberration
2 Balustrade Spy
1 Aetherize
3 Dimir Charm
3 Grisly Spectacle
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Psychic Strike
2 Syncopate
4 Breaking//Entering
3 Mind Grind
4 Tome Scour
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Jace, Memory Adept
4 Dimir Guildgate
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
7 Island
7 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Glaring Spotlight
2 Pithing Needle
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Devour Flesh
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Psychic Spiral
2 Syncopate
2 Ultimate Price

[kais58]

I had a Pre-Thros standard Mill deck that was pretty sweet but all the good stuff from Innistrad block has rotated out so it needs a build, revolved around Jace's Phantasm/Invisible Stalker/Wight of Prcentct Six mostly with aberration/Jace, I'll post it if anyone is interested but my Modern Mill deck is here http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/modern-mill-15-11-13-1/ needs a lot of money spent on it to make it competative though as I live in a super high level area, especially for modern.

[MisterDee]

Someone (I think it was Ben Bleiweiss) made the Exploding Wurm deck with the Epic red spell. Basically, fling those ginormous casting costs card at your opponent.

Obviously, it's terrible if you don't build around it.

[Gutierrez]

I'd been looking at a mill deck myself also. I looked at control, timing, threats, and what Theros could offer. I have a feeling Born of the Gods, if it introduces Phenax the blue-black demigod, will give some more mill options also.

So what's your game? Like it was said in TTC completely milling out a 60 card deck isn't easy. So what's your secondary win condition?

Incidental damage:
Duskmantle Guildmage - 1UB: Whenever a card is put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere this turn, that player loses 1 life. (Jace, Memory Adept and this card are a two turn clock alone)

Graveyard based Beefers:
Wight of Precinct Six at 2
Nighthowler at 3 and bestow at 4
Consuming Aberration at 5

Using your opponent's milled cards:
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - Exile 3, drop exiled creatures
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Copy the the best thing milled when you mill it, now with Hexproof!
Psychic Intrusion - Cast your opponent's best spell milled or from their hand

The decklist I came up with is a control shell mill deck. I start the early game with removal and transfer into big creatures in the mid to late game. Keep in mind I still think it's a little kitchen table inconsistent with the variety of cards I am using.

2x Syncopate [XU] (Strong counter)
2x Duress or Thoughseize [B] (Remove power spells early before they happen)
2x Rapid Hybridization [U] (Low cost instant speed removal)
2x Duskmantle Guildmage [UB] (Incidental damage on mill, early blocker)
3x Wight of Precinct Six [1B] (Graveyard based beef)
2x Dimir Charm [UB] (Removal, counter, mill)
2x Cyclonic Rift [1U/6U] (Early game bounce, late game wipe)
2x Doom blade or Hero's Downfall [1B] or [1BB] (early removal)
3x Psychic Strike [1UB] (Counter and mill)
2x Hover Barrier [2U] (Big blocker even in the air)
2x Wall of Frost [1UU] (Stall Blocker)
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver [1UB] (Exile, and play opponents cards)
2x Nightveil Specter [U-B U-B U-B] (Air threat, play opponents cards)
2x Lasav, Dimir Mastermind [UUBB] (Copy what you mill)
4x Consuming Aberration [3UB](Beef with incidental mill)
2x Jace, Memory Adept [3UU](Big mills)
2x Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker [3BU] (Air threat, incidental mill)
2x Far//Away [[2B]//[1U]] (bounce and removal)

Sideboard
2x Domestication [2UU] (Steal a threat)
2x Blood Scrivener [1B] (Sometimes you need more gas)
2x Curse of the Swine [XUU] (Wipe your opponent's meat or devotion)
2x Duskmantle Guildmage [UB] (Control mirror, up the incidental damage)
2x Thassa God of the Sea [2U] (Make the beefers unblockable against creature decks)
1x Jace, Memory Adept [3UU]
2x Doom blade or Hero's Downfall (Raise removal for early threat heavy decks)
1x Ashiok Nightmare Weaver [1UB]
1x Negate [1U] (It seems odd, but sometimes you need another counter)

I'm open to suggestions and comments on the deck as well. I'd love to hear ideas for tightening it up as well.

[G-Head the Fabulous]

My Blue/Black deck uses Agent of the Fates, cipher cards like Hidden Strings, unblockable cards like Aqueous Form, Consuming Aberration and Artisan of Forms(mostly as a Consuming Aberration).

[xVwDRAGONwVx]

this is the mill deck i have
http://www.mtgvault.com/xvwdragonwvx/de ... e-counter/

[KandE]

Ciphers combined with Consuming aberration. Cipher recasts the spell every time it activates and therefore activates Consuming Aberration's ability on every spell cast. Also splashing for Breaking // Entering not a bad idea. My friend however instead likes to splash in green for Elvish Mystics for faster mill and fogs to survive long enough to mill. Also Mizzium Skin not bad on Consuming!

[asteriskreaper]

Actually, Enduring Ideal is probably the best of the Epic cards in your Saviours pack (not for Limited though. God no). The card, during it's time in Standard, even made Top 8 in a Pro Tour.

Back in the day when I played it, the combo was Zur's Weirding, Form of the Dragon and various Confiscate/Ivory Mask/Genju's as supporting pieces with the available ramp in the day.

Let me know if you see the interaction between Form of the Dragon and Zur's Weirding...it's funny

I have a friend with what I had to consider a tier ZERO EDH, once he plays Enduring Ideal, it's game over because if he didn't already have Paradox Haze, he goes for that. the n he gets two enchantment decks a turn, and shit's out Pegasus's from Sacred mesa to kill everyone. the deck is Jenara, it is near unbeatable...

[Thanatos5150]

I registered for the forums just to post my Dimir mill deck which I am unduly, supremely proud of. It uses only Return to Ravnica-block cards, and was originally built pre-Theros. Here's the tapped out link:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/consuming-psyche/

for those of you who don't want to follow links, the list is thus:
(Land)
4x Dimir Guildgate
8x Island
11x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
(Mainboard)
2x Balustrade Spy
3x Consuming Aberration
1x Diluvian Primordial
3x Duskmantle Guildmage
1x Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
4x Shadow Alley Denizen
4x Wight of Precinct Six
2x Grisly Spectacle
4x Psychic Strike
2x Midnight Recovery
4x Mind Grind
4x Paranoid Delusions
2x Shadow Slice
(Sideboard)
2x Balustrade Spy
2x Deathcult Rogue
2x Grisly Spectacle
2x Midnight Recovery
2x Mortus Strider
2x Sage's Row Denizen
1x Sepulchral Primordial
2x Shadow Slice

[vxicepickxv]

I look at Spiritual Visit as a 1/1 flash for 1, or for more, you get more bonus stuff.

[azraelchimera]

Well, since I'm a god awful human being and I don't always watch LRR videos in order, I JUST finished watching this video. That being said...I had the Dimir mill deck!

Important Cards:

Paranoid Delusions
Deathcult Rogue
Aqueous Form
Psychic Strike
Jace, Memory Adept
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Omenspeaker
Mirko Vosk, the Mind Drinker
Wight of Precinct Six


Omenspeaker was a solid line of defense, Deathcult rogue got around most things, Jace is well...Jace.

There was also a cool combo that many people missed with Undercity Informer, Sage's Row Denizen, Mortis Strider.