TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Discuss our latest podcast about Magic: The Gathering.
User avatar
Graham
Super Moderator
Posts: 15038
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 19:37
Location: Victoria, BC
Contact:

TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby Graham » 14 Sep 2015, 11:47

Preview season has arrived, and so with it a whole bunch of cool looking Eldrazi cards. Join James, Graham and Cam this week and they dive into Battle for Zendikar.
User avatar
The Martini
Posts: 153
Joined: 23 Apr 2015, 08:10
First Video: Installing Linux
Location: Vancouver. No, the other one.

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby The Martini » 14 Sep 2015, 16:34

One (probably intentional) thing with Winnie the Eldrazi is that, instead of being countered, even-costed spells can't be cast, which means that even the 'on-cast' triggers don't go off.
Gin. Vermouth. Olives.
User avatar
JBRedPhoenix
Posts: 18
Joined: 04 May 2015, 21:08
First Video: Something along the lines of TTC???
Location: CaL gArY

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby JBRedPhoenix » 14 Sep 2015, 22:48

The Martini wrote:One (probably intentional) thing with Winnie the Eldrazi is that, instead of being countered, even-costed spells can't be cast, which means that even the 'on-cast' triggers don't go off.

So that counts with even costed spells currenly on stack? Because I'd steal this for a Riku game breaker deck.
Something witty goes here...
Current MTG Decks:
Riku Photocopier EDH
Esper Superfriends EDH
Maren Pre-Con EDH
Sultai Mind Grind Mill, Modern (playable, not competitive)

I STREAM! twitch.tv/JBRedPhoenix
User avatar
RedNightmare
Posts: 1236
Joined: 25 Nov 2011, 02:56
First Video: The Job
Location: Your deepest fears

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby RedNightmare » 15 Sep 2015, 01:32

But I like the name Tango Lands (sorry, just fulfilling my obligation here)
"I wouldn't call myself an evil genius. Simply genius will suffice."

http://www.twitch.tv/rednightmare7

Image
Dedwrekka
Posts: 15
Joined: 11 Apr 2014, 17:19
First Video: That one with Graham in it.

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby Dedwrekka » 15 Sep 2015, 08:05

Does Herald of Kozilek make Hangerback Walker an odd casting cost, thereby getting past Void Winnower?
susu.exp
Posts: 86
Joined: 09 Mar 2014, 09:44
First Video: FN - The Return

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby susu.exp » 15 Sep 2015, 09:51

Nope. The cost reduction happens after you check whether a spell that is put on the stack can be cast.
As per comprehensive rules you
1) put Hangarback walker on the stack (601.2a)
2) give a value for X (601.2b)
3) Because the CMC is even, the game returns to the state before 1) (601.2e, 601.2 and 717)

The cost reduction from the Herald would occur as 601.2f, so its effect applies too late to allow the Hangarback walker to be cast.
User avatar
Jonci
Posts: 169
Joined: 07 Nov 2013, 09:20
First Video: Some ENN video

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby Jonci » 15 Sep 2015, 10:25

The duel land nickname will likely just settle based on what some popular Wikia page goes with.
I'm not insane. I just have an overly vivid imagination!
User avatar
BenMarc
Posts: 83
Joined: 11 Mar 2012, 08:08
First Video: Interrupt this Program

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby BenMarc » 15 Sep 2015, 20:00

In order to quash any doubts about zero being an even number, I present the following Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parity_of_zero

JBRedPhoenix wrote:So that counts with even costed spells currenly on stack? Because I'd steal this for a Riku game breaker deck.


No. Void Winnower stops them from being cast, but doesn't stop them from resolving. Typically, there's no difference, but it means that flashing him in has no effect on things already on the stack.

Dedwrekka wrote:Does Herald of Kozilek make Hangerback Walker an odd casting cost, thereby getting past Void Winnower?


Void Winnower doesn't care about what you actually pay to cast the spell, just what the cmc is. Helm of Awakening and Sphere of Resistance have no effect on what Void Winnower vetoes, Force of Will can still be cast even if you're using its alt-cost to cast it for zero, and Cobra Trap can't be cast, even for its trap cost.
Captain Technicality, away!!!
*makes whooshing noises with mouth*
User avatar
Dothar Vahlin
Posts: 9
Joined: 18 Mar 2013, 05:03
First Video: it's Magic? I think

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby Dothar Vahlin » 16 Sep 2015, 07:35

BenMarc wrote:Void Winnower doesn't care about what you actually pay to cast the spell, just what the cmc is.


Yeah, if I am not mistaken it is correct that Hangarback Walker has an even cmc but not because it has two x's in its cost but because in order to calculate the cmc of a "x-spell" you take the value of x to be zero, therefor Hangarback Walker has a cmc of zero which is even.

Also regarding Void Winnowers second ability; preventing even cmc creatures from blocking is very nice if your opponent has a ton of tokens to block with since their cmc will also be zero and therefor even...seems useful with all those scions running around !! :)
susu.exp
Posts: 86
Joined: 09 Mar 2014, 09:44
First Video: FN - The Return

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby susu.exp » 16 Sep 2015, 10:58

Dothar Vahlin wrote:Yeah, if I am not mistaken it is correct that Hangarback Walker has an even cmc but not because it has two x's in its cost but because in order to calculate the cmc of a "x-spell" you take the value of x to be zero, therefor Hangarback Walker has a cmc of zero which is even.


That is correct anywhere but on the stack. HBW has a CMC of 0 while in hand, it gets put on the stack and still has a CMC of 0. Then you pick a value for X and it gets a CMC of 2*X. At this point the legality of play is checked and Void Winnower makes it illegal. If there is no Void Winnower in play this check is passed and only then do cost reduction affects apply and they do not change the CMC, but you only have to pay 2*X-1.
User avatar
Dothar Vahlin
Posts: 9
Joined: 18 Mar 2013, 05:03
First Video: it's Magic? I think

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby Dothar Vahlin » 16 Sep 2015, 12:11

susu.exp wrote:That is correct anywhere but on the stack. HBW has a CMC of 0 while in hand, it gets put on the stack and still has a CMC of 0. Then you pick a value for X and it gets a CMC of 2*X. At this point the legality of play is checked and Void Winnower makes it illegal. If there is no Void Winnower in play this check is passed and only then do cost reduction affects apply and they do not change the CMC, but you only have to pay 2*X-1.


Well I am not much of a rules guy, and that sounds just like the kind of shenanigans I wouldn't know about, so thanks for the explanation! But I just had to check the comp. rules on the "anywhere else" part (which confirmed it) because when I read your reply I thought of the following: if my opponent has a Void Winnower in play, I could still cast an Endless One for an odd value (since it's cmc would be odd on the stack) however I could not block with it because it's cmc will be zero in play.

Luckily that's a rare and mythic rare interaction but I think that if I were to explain that to a new player they would probably think I was full of it. Heck, I would have probably thought that, screamed "Judge!" and then marveled at the wonderful world of the magic rules in total disbelief if someone where to tell me that in a game. "So you're saying this thing is odd in one place and even in the other? :shock: If I think that's odd can I still block with it then? :D "
SixFootTurkey
Posts: 361
Joined: 18 Nov 2012, 03:54
First Video: PAX Prime '12 panel (recorded)

Re: TTC 101 - Battle for Zendikar Previews

Postby SixFootTurkey » 16 Sep 2015, 13:50

We could go with 'easy lands', because you know... they're as easy as one, two, three... <____<

Return to “TapTapConcede”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest