Wondering how this will effect Highlander

[Goblin_Ski_Patrol]

https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comme ... ed/cyvzi9d

Statement by Trick Jarret makes it sound as if Collector's Edition cards may not be options anymore. Really sucks since this essentially kills organized Vintage and legacy in my area.

[Tacos_yay]

Its going to affect a lot of formats. Commander and Vintage will be effected too. I don't think its going to effect casual play too much, as many games happen in peoples living rooms or kitchen tables. And store owners are just going to not report it.

At the end of the day, WOTC is a business, ruled by accountants and executives. If those executives think cracking down of 'counterfeit' cards will increase profits, (and I don't think the people who aren't willing to pay hundreds of dollars to buy competitive cards are suddenly going to go out and by them now) then WOTC will enforce the rules laid out by those executives.

[Goblin_Ski_Patrol]

And store owners are just going to not report it.

You say that, but the problem is that if one player gets a beef with the LGS, they would then have an easy way to yank the store's WPN and thus keep them from things like Prerelease and hosting larger events. I'm worried this will lead most LGSs to decide it's not worth giving their customers that kind of ammo and just ban proxies.

[square1]

This would be a much more palatable stance for them to take if they were actually the ones directly selling the vintage and legacy staples these days. But who knows, maybe an FTV: Power 9 is coming down the pipe.

[Tacos_yay]

if one player gets a beef with the LGS

That is always a concern, yes, that one of the players could be an petty asshole. But I could still see a lot of stores still just ignoring it.

This would be a much more palatable stance for them to take if they were actually the ones directly selling the vintage and legacy staples these days. But who knows, maybe an FTV: Power 9 is coming down the pipe.

That is also a point. I don't know how much money WOTC could possibly make, if any, on the private card trade. I doubt that they would suddenly do away with the reserved list and start printing those cards again, and if they were considering it they must know that the Vintage and Legacy community would storm the steps of Renton and burn it to the ground. (That could be an exaggeration, but I'm not fully convinced it its.)

EDIT: There is now a very good paragraph on reddit here:https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/40qa80/proxy_policy_clarification_by_helene_bergeot/cyw9uiw
That I fully agree with. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about this, as its not going to effect anything. I mean, we had the judge thing two months ago and people have already forgotten about that. It didn't effect jack shit.

[square1]

That is also a point. I don't know how much money WOTC could possibly make, if any, on the private card trade. I doubt that they would suddenly do away with the reserved list and start printing those cards again, and if they were considering it they must know that the Vintage and Legacy community would storm the steps of Renton and burn it to the ground. (That could be an exaggeration, but I'm not fully convinced it its.)

The assumption is that the prices of those investment cards like Lotus or Moxen would plummet. I'm not convinced that would be the case since people place value on having the original versions beyond the strict functionality of the card. Even then, original Tarmogoyf went from 191 to 189 after being reprinted in MM2015, not exactly a dramatic change. Mostly what you see is the resell price of the FTVs and other reprint sets go up rather than driving the price of the cards the other way.

I think the main argument for reprinting these cards is that the community is growing and the original print runs just weren't big enough to support the number of players who want to participate 20 years later.

Anyway, getting off topic, and the reddit thread you linked does a good job of addressing this specific case.

[Booster]

The thing with being worried about the vintage and legacy crowd storming the wizards office if they were to do away with the reserve list, is from what ive read, that crowd is shrinking, precisely BECAUSE of the reserved list. Those formats are not accessible, and so fewer and fewer tournaments are being held. So what those players need to ask is "Do you value magic more as a game or as a weird stock market" because keeping their weird little stock market alive will kill off those formats eventually.

[Tacos_yay]

The assumption is that the prices of those investment cards like Lotus or Moxen would plummet. I'm not convinced that would be the case since people place value on having the original versions beyond the strict functionality of the card. Even then, original Tarmogoyf went from 191 to 189 after being reprinted in MM2015, not exactly a dramatic change. Mostly what you see is the resell price of the FTVs and other reprint sets go up rather than driving the price of the cards the other way.

Tarmagoyf is different, as A) The demand of Goyfs is driven by player who play it in competition, not just collectors. Black Lotus doesn't see much play because of how rare it is, so the demand is mostly collectors. B) The number of Goyfs in circulation is much, much larger that the number of lotuses. There were always enough Goyfs in circulation for the format, and MM15 reprinted them just in time. But they only printed 110 Lotuses with alpha, and a few hundred more with the other printings. So how many can still be in circulation? 100? 200? If they reprinted them, it would make them much more available, and thus satisfy the large demand for them.

There is no way to concretely assess what would happen, so most of this is purely speculation. I think, personally, that in the case of black lotus the price would drop.

[MagisterMystax]

The thing with being worried about the vintage and legacy crowd storming the wizards office if they were to do away with the reserve list, is from what ive read, that crowd is shrinking, precisely BECAUSE of the reserved list. Those formats are not accessible, and so fewer and fewer tournaments are being held. So what those players need to ask is "Do you value magic more as a game or as a weird stock market" because keeping their weird little stock market alive will kill off those formats eventually.

The problem isn't really the Legacy/Vintage players, but the collectors who do indeed value Magic more as a weird stock market than a game. And unfortunately, as their reserve list cards increase in price due to smaller and smaller supplies, the amount Wizards would lose in court cases if they broke the reserve list will only go up. And from explanations of the issue I've read, it's already so much it could bankrupt Hasbro.

[Asthanius]

The official stance from Wizards is that proxies used in events that aren't DCI sanctioned are fine. If I understand that correctly, it means if an event allows proxies, it can't result in players gaining Planeswalker Points. If I'm wrong on this, please, correct me.

[Tacos_yay]

The official stance from Wizards is that proxies used in events that aren't DCI sanctioned are fine. If I understand that correctly, it means if an event allows proxies, it can't result in players gaining Planeswalker Points. If I'm wrong on this, please, correct me.

Well that was fast. Looks like they cleared everything up. Clearly there was some sort of miscommunication either inside WOTC or they decided to do a course change on there policy.