The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
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Lyinginbedmon
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 22 Jul 2011, 16:49

I generally try for 60 and end up at 70 cards, with the 1/3 rule for land being my usual guide. You can increase/decrease the number of lands based on the other cards, like land fetches, mana sources, etc.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby theDreamer » 22 Jul 2011, 16:55

gcninja wrote:Whats your average size for your deck? I think mine is about 60 with lands but some people say thats too big. My lands are about 1/3 of my deck so I can have a good chance to draw
How do you work everything out?


Are we talking constructed?

Because 60 is the (current) legal minimum.

It used to be 4o, though.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Yaxley » 22 Jul 2011, 18:22

Constructed? 60 cards, plus a 15 card sideboard if your group plays by tournament rules. Though Lyinginbedmon might disagree with me, I will never go over that. I tend the think that the best deck is one that has the 60 best cards for your strategy, not the 60 best cards, plus 10 slightly less good cards just in case.

I also deliberately build my decks to have low mana curves and color requirements so I can always keep it to 20 lands or fewer. This strategy works for me, but basically prevents me from using cards that cost more than 4 mana.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby theDreamer » 22 Jul 2011, 18:24

Except in green ramp.

I have 18 lands in my green deck, and 60 cards.

I'm contemplating dropping my 18 lands to 16 and throwing in more elves, since I'm still mana swamped late game, when I need to be drawing my 8 drops.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Yaxley » 22 Jul 2011, 19:04

theDreamer wrote:Except in green ramp.

Well, yeah. I mean, I have a green deck that, undisrupted, will almost always have the 15 mana to cast Emrakul on turn 3, and that's with only 14 lands. I also used to be a big fan of 10 Land Stompy, though I've since given that up. The make-up and strategy of the deck will always dictate its land count. I mean, hell, there's a Legacy deck type called "43 Lands". Guess how many lands it has. Yeah. But it has them for a good reason. When it comes to mana, there are no hard and fast rules, only guidelines. Everything else comes from actually playing the deck and finding out what works.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Ottoman » 22 Jul 2011, 19:26

Yaxley wrote:Constructed? 60 cards, plus a 15 card sideboard if your group plays by tournament rules.
Unless you plan on actually paying in tournaments, using official construction rules is silly, IMHO.

As I mentioned in the other thread, my group plays with a 40-card minimum. (A few of us use mostly 40-card decks, and the others. . . don't build so carefully.) The thing is, considering the way we play, a small deck isn't necessarily broken; we don't use ridiculous turn-one combos or anything of the sort, because we're playing for fun. A good reason against small decks is that they play mostly the same each time, which gets boring - but that's why I have a dozen different 40-card decks, and never play the same one more than twice in a row. So, our games are kept both fresh and snappy, and that's why we think casual groups who adhere to Standard Constructed are weird.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Lyinginbedmon » 22 Jul 2011, 19:56

The only real house rules my group uses is to always mulligan to seven cards, because getting a bad hand and having to draw fewer cards is just a kick in the teeth for bad luck.

Beyond that, it's mostly just Wheaton's Law.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby the_lone_bard » 23 Jul 2011, 03:47

Lyinginbedmon wrote:The only real house rules my group uses is to always mulligan to seven cards, because getting a bad hand and having to draw fewer cards is just a kick in the teeth for bad luck.

Beyond that, it's mostly just Wheaton's Law.


Wish i coulda had that rule at FNM last night.
Won my first game against simone.
Second comes up, opening hand, not one mana.
Mulligan to 6 brings no mana.
Mulligan to 5 brings 1 swamp.
Mulligan to 4 brings 1 swamp and a llanowar elf and rampant growth.
Condeded on turn 3 when her furyborn hellkite hit the field and i had 2 swamps on the field and a hand of green.

Third game was almost as bad, but i wasn't as badly mana-screwed when i hit 5 cards and managed to defend for about 9 turns.

This is with a black/green deck, with 12 forrests and 10 swamps (64 card deck, just cause i added 4 manaliths to play praetors grasp'd cards.) that also contains 4 manaliths, 4 llanowar elves and 4 rampant growths. Even using the 1/3 rule for mana +1 forrest i seem to still get mana-screwed...somehow.

Reminds me of my 200 card angel deck that had 90 mana and could go 15 turns without seeing more than 1 plains.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby gcninja » 23 Jul 2011, 06:51

Psh, I beat my friend with 2 mana. I kept swinging for 4 each turn, then when he finally got out agood monster, BAM journey to nowhere and dealt the final blow.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby the_lone_bard » 23 Jul 2011, 07:38

See. my deck has 8 cards i could play for 4 mana.
4 llanowar elves and 4 rampant growths XD

hell i'll just post the list here XD
Here it is, edited in as promised!

2x reclaim.
4x fog
4x diabolic tutor.
1x sorin markov.
4x llanowar elf.
4x rampant growth.
4x doomblade.
2x hunters insight.
2x sheoldred.
2x consuming vapors (BEing replaced with 2x creeping corrosion when they rotate out.)
3x rune scarred demon.
2x praetors grasp.
2x royal assassin.
4x manaliths.

The entire idea (And in practice it works so far!) is to play to my strenghs, which have always been slow to start huge win decks, it spams land and searches for cards.
1 diabolic tutor becomes a runescarred demon, becomes a rune scared demon, becomes a rune scared demon, becomes a sheoldred.

Looking for a way to put 2 caged suns in there, thinking i might just outright add them when i can get my hands on em, though i have to buy em online cause NOBODY has any spares, there is about 60 floatin around my group and everyone has 4 in every deck XD
Except me obviously.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Geoff_B » 23 Jul 2011, 10:16

a question occurred to me. ok so if i have an etched champion in play, and i buff it with claws of valakut BEFORE metalcraft kicks in, what happens to the enchantment when metalcraft does kick in and etched champion gets protection from all colours? cos my understanding is if etched champion has metalcraft before being buffed then it can't be buffed since claws of valakut is red.

my mind is kind of turning itself inside out over this.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby the_lone_bard » 23 Jul 2011, 10:43

This is where duels of the plainswalkers can be a great help to some people.

There was a situation where i had a gideons avenger pacified.
I gave it protection from white till the end of turn which destroyed the pacifism.

Basically, anything coloured that is touching or targeting it, fizzles as if it were cast on a target that had been doombladed.

And i'm guessing i explained that terrible but it's quarter to 5 in the morning, my brain stopped working about 25minutes ago!
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby MowDownJoe » 23 Jul 2011, 11:52

Geoff_B wrote:a question occurred to me. ok so if i have an etched champion in play, and i buff it with claws of valakut BEFORE metalcraft kicks in, what happens to the enchantment when metalcraft does kick in and etched champion gets protection from all colours? cos my understanding is if etched champion has metalcraft before being buffed then it can't be buffed since claws of valakut is red.

my mind is kind of turning itself inside out over this.

Protection only protects from 4 things: Damage, Enchanting/Equipping (LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU DARKSTEEL GARRISON), Blocking, and Targeting. Claws of Valakut would fall off.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Trymantha » 23 Jul 2011, 13:43

though hexproof wont stop a enchantment like pacifism from falling of
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Ollie, don'tcha know! » 23 Jul 2011, 14:00

Wait, really? Could Pacifism put on it after it gains Hexproof?
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Ottoman » 23 Jul 2011, 14:57

EDIT: Rule 704.5n

Code: Select all

704.5n If an Aura is attached to an illegal object or player, or is not attached to an object or player, that Aura is put into its owner's graveyard.
Yeah, Claws would fizzle.

Trymantha wrote:though hexproof wont stop a enchantment like pacifism from falling of
What?

EDIT 2: (If I'm interpreting this correctly.) If a permanent one player controls gains Hexproof after it has been enchanted by an Aura controlled by an opponent, the Aura will be unaffected and remain attached. Protection prevents all forms of interaction (including enchantment), but Hexproof only prevents targeting. Once an Aura resolves, it's no longer targeting the permanent, so Hexproof has no effect.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Trymantha » 23 Jul 2011, 23:12

Ottoman wrote:EDIT 2: (If I'm interpreting this correctly.) If a permanent one player controls gains Hexproof after it has been enchanted by an Aura controlled by an opponent, the Aura will be unaffected and remain attached. Protection prevents all forms of interaction (including enchantment), but Hexproof only prevents targeting. Once an Aura resolves, it's no longer targeting the permanent, so Hexproof has no effect.


that is correct, the aura only targets when it first comes into play.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby the_lone_bard » 24 Jul 2011, 00:19

Or, to put it differently.
Hexproof stops spells and abbilities your opponents control.
Not permanants. An aura that has resolved becomes an enchantment, which are permanants.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby semysane » 24 Jul 2011, 01:06

What the hell, may as well post my Phantom deck. SO not legal in most formats, due to most of my core cards being super old. Been playing this deck in one form or another since highschool.

It's a green/white spirit/aura deck

Creatures - 18
Phantoms
Phantom Centaur x2
Phantom Flock x3
Phantom Nishoba x1
Phantom Nomad x3
Phantom Tiger x3
Other Creatures
Iname, Life Aspect x1
Sekki, Seasons' Guide x1
Tallowish x1
Veteran Armorer x3

Auras - 9
Armadillo Cloak x1
Beastmaster's Magemark x1
Celestial Mantle x1
Conclave's Blessing x1
Dragon Scales x1
Exoskeletal Armor x1
Shield of the Oversoul x2
Strength of Isolation x1

Enchantments - 4
Aura Shards x1
Doubling Season x2
Mirari's Wake x1

Artifacts - 2
Pristine Talisman x1
Selesnya Signet x1

Instants - 5
Apostle's Blessing x1
Congregation at Dawn x1
Mirror Strike x1
Second Thoughts x1
Wing Shards x1

Sorceries - 1
Three Dreams x1

Land - 21
Selesnya Sancuary x1
Forest x9
Plains x11

Haven't actually played the deck since I added the Talisman and Apostle's Blessing, so I can't wait to see if they make a positive improvement.

If I can get my hands on a Phantom Wurm, I'll probably use it to replace the Iname.

Oh, hey, the Gatherer is pretty helpful. It tells me that my set is most likely legal in Legacy, Vintage and Classic if I want to try playing it in a tourny or something.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby phlip » 24 Jul 2011, 02:23

So, LRR has finally convinced me to try out this MtG thing... I found a local game store that sells the cards and holds weekly games. I went there today, but they were sold out of starter kits.

Should I be sad about this development, or thankful for my weeklong reprieve before I start pouring hundreds of dollars into a card game?
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby semysane » 24 Jul 2011, 02:26

Wal Mart has been known to sell Magic cards as well, you might want to check there for a starter set.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Lacerta » 27 Jul 2011, 05:40

Most hilarious thing to do in a Commander game:

Cast Massacre Wurm the turn after someone thinks they've won by casting Storm Herd.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Ringo803 » 28 Jul 2011, 21:26

I bought a few M12 boosters earlier tonight...

...and I pulled a Sorin Markov. It was awesome.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby MaximusXIII » 29 Jul 2011, 03:36

I only play Duels of the Planeswalkers on the PS3, thank you LRR for that addiction. I was wondering if anyone knew any more about some of the crew playing Duels PS3 sometime soon? All I know is that they (possibly Graham, James and Jer) will be playing online sometime soon for some event. No idea how I'd be able to play with them (which I'd love to do), when it is or even how I came upon this information.
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Re: Magic: The Gathering: Whatcha mean, there's no thread yet?

Postby Yaxley » 29 Jul 2011, 04:51

There's a blog post on the front page about it.

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