The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

[theDreamer]

I want to post this argument here, because I've been hearing about this a lot, and it's really the only intelligent option they had.

Like, Transform is a cool effect.

But every fucking person who says "It should have been like Sengir Nosferatu" is being an idiot.

If I enchant Sengir Nosferatu, with a buff, or my opponent does with a debuff, me "transforming" him deletes the aura.

Also, that transform triggers ETB effects, which makes no sense. Why would one creature changing form be treated as if a new creature came in.

Plus, if the bat ever died, Sengir Nosferatu is stuck in exile land, not in the graveyard. I mean, some things make slightly less sense that way (if I killed a vampire, I wouldn't normally expect it to return to its bat form so I could bury it [see: Screeching Bat/Stalking Vampire]), but on the whole, it makes more sense than otherwise.

I dislike that I'll have to use stand ins for my deck (I refuse to unsleeve, flip, sleeve: I don't want to hurt the cards, to say nothing of the fact that all my decks are currently in clear sleeves), but it's still the only logical way to get, mechanically, the flavour they wanted.

And it's some damn cool flavour.

I really do look forward to making a werewolf deck that will fight my vamp deck to the death.

[SilPho]

I think the more compelling argument for how they could have done it is for the flip cards from Kamigawa block. They did have their fair share of problems, which is why they haven't been revisited, but they do work, in theory.

[theDreamer]

Yes, but you prevent Transform Planeswalkers from happening that way, AND limit the amount of text for each card.

[HummingbirdJames]

If you've been following this at all: you'd know that there were two arts for a cursed Garruk, they have sad any permanent could transform, not just creatures, and that Garruk is to be the Hero to Liliana's villian.

Again.

And I approve. Those are my two favourite of the Planeswalkers.

But that's not what I was talking about; at least, not all of it. My concern was about getting another Garruk card so soon after the Primal Hunter, not the fact that he would be transforming. In fact, that'd be incredibly cool. Accusing me of not following this at all was kind of a dick move, to be honest. (Although kinda true; the only news of Innistrad that I've had is from the WotC website and I assume there has been stuff filtering out through other sources..)

On the subject of transform cards, I love how they're using the Planar Chaos borders for the transformed side; it's a nice touch and it shows a clear difference between the two sides.

[theDreamer]

...yeah it did kind of come off as pretentious, but I read a lot of ignorant comments on things (mtgsalvation is full of a lot of dumb people), so "ZOMG?! NEW GARRUK!?!" which has been something I've known about for a few days is something I've heard a lot. Really, all that card did was confirm he transforms, his cost, and name.

...Though some people posit he could be a creature, like older planeswalkers were. I'm not so sure, me.

I get super psyched about the release, so I've been following like a hawk, you see.

Sorry.

[Ottoman]

I would contribute to this discussion, by my brain is still too full of fuck from the news that there will be two-sided cards. What the fuck.

My world is almost literally being turned upside-down.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Or rather, your world is almost literally being spun 180 degrees perpendicular to its vertical axis.

[Ottoman]

Seriously though, what the hell‽ These cards have two sides. They didn't even try to pull that shit in Time Spiral! (Speaking of, that back design is nice.) Flip and Dual cards look ordinary compared to these. It's like something out of an Un-set. Two sides. TWO SIDES. And it involves messing with how the boosters are packed? Fu~ck this is crazy. And dual-sided foils? Twice the foil? Holy shit. Who had the balls to come up with this idea? How do they plan on ever topping this?

Man, and I thought I was pumped for the New Phyrexia launch. . .

[Lyinginbedmon]

I can understand the mechanic, but I think the dual cards from Kamigawa did it better in practise.

[Ottoman]

They were a clusterfuck of tiny text, squished art, and pennies; they looked as if someone had sat on a stack of card frames and smooshed them into near-uselessness. Less 'bold design choice', more 'the designers were completely out of touch with players'. They're fun to look at for the novelty sometimes, but I think you have a case of nostalgia glasses.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Was never a problem for me, then and since, I'm still using a lot of Kamigawa cards.

[Exachix]

I think the two-faced cards look cool, and are an interesting concept. There's no 'right' way to do it in my eyes, so this seems good.

The problem with two-sided cards is if they are in your deck in opaque sleeves, then to 'flip' it, you'd have to extract and re-insert the card. Unless you have two copies.

[theDreamer]

Thus the checklist proxies.

[SilentBobCDN]

Or you extract it, flip it, and leave it out of the sleeve (*gasp in horror*) until its in the graveyard. I don't see the issue...

[Lyinginbedmon]

That sort of defeats the point of the sleeves...

[SilentBobCDN]

Are your cards really going to get damaged in the amount of time it takes for the game to finish? Are you worried about someone accidentally dumping their bottle of whatever on the table mid-game? This isnt an issue for me, I play clean.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Well, yes, because that's the most vulnerable point for them. If they're sat in a deck box they're pretty much fine save for sizeable flooding, if they're on the table then anything can get to them.

[theDreamer]

Checklist cards guys. Srsly.

[Ottoman]

I don't play with children, and always sweep the table off beforehand, so I've never really bothered with sleeves. None of my cards have yet been damaged.

On several occasions, I've considered buying sleeves, but in the end I always end up deciding that the money is better spent on more cards. You know, for the game I'm playing in the first place.

Also, what Dreamer said.

[Lyinginbedmon]

But what about your rare, valuable, cards? Like a foil Jace, Memory Adept?

Personally, given the money I've already invested into Magic, the sleeves are a small price to pay to protect that investment from the inevitable accidents.

[theDreamer]

Why does it matter?

For people without sleeves, they HAVE to use a checklist card: marked cards are cheating, even if that marked card is an official one.

For people with sleeves: just use a freaking checklist card anyways, so you don't have to unsleeve to transform.

...I was all "seriously wizards?" when I first heard about this, but checklist cards solve all problems.

Also, Transform is awesome for pack building collectors:
One transform card in every pack, taking a common slot.
Transform cards are at EVERY RARITY.
Checklist card in 3/4 of packs, in the land slot.
Potential for 3 mythics in one pack? Yes.

[Ottoman]

But what about your rare, valuable, cards? Like a foil Jace, Memory Adept?

Hell, I wouldn't play with that even if I had sleeves.

Any card worth serious money gets a proxy. So far for me, that's, like. . . three. I don't mind taking some risks with my cards, because I'm certainly not going to be selling them.

[ebMusicMan]

Stupid question: What's a checklist card?

[theDreamer]

Stupid question: What's a checklist card?

It's a special new magic card, the frnt of which is a checklistwith every dfc(double faced card) ,which you must clearly mark.

[SilPho]

Speaking of the double-faced cards...

That is a checklist card.