The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

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phlip
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby phlip » 01 Jul 2013, 14:47

I'm mostly underwhelmed by new Chandra. The +1 is pretty meh... rarely removal and doesn't protect her, but the falter could be relevant sometimes in a hyperaggro deck. The 0 is essentially "draw a card" which isn't bad, but with the drawback that you have to use the card that turn, which means sometimes it's just going to be blank, which is awkward. And the ultimate is way too variable to be the "activate this and probably win" that most PW ultimates aim for... especially considering you need to have her on the table for 4 turns, using the ability that neither protects her nor gives card advantage, and then it's still reliant on your draw. Sure, you're pulling out a lot of cards, so that reduces it somewhat, but still.

Really, I think she's only really good in RDW... the 0 is best there since all their cards are essentially interchangeable, so you can usually play the card you draw (and that deck really wants card draw, and can rarely get it), and the ultimate is likely to hit burn that can just close out the game. And even the +1 is good to get through some damage vs control decks that clog the ground with Rhox Faithmender and such.

In Limited, you'll run basically any Planeswalker, but the +1 is unimpressive, the 0 will more often whiff (but still be good), and the ultimate will just be "-7: mill 10" way too often to be relied on.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Duckay » 01 Jul 2013, 15:17

I think I like her in RDW or another heavy red aggro. Not enough to heavily chase her down, or even in the main deck much? But if I had 2 or 3, I would put her in my red deck's sideboard.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby korvys » 01 Jul 2013, 17:10

Sideboard against what?

She seems pretty good in a heavy red aggro, as mentioned. By turn 4, you're probably down to 2 or 3 cards in hand, and if you have 4 mana, you can probably play anything you exile with her +0.
40% of the time, it's going to be a land, which you can play immediately, 40% you hit a cheap creature, some of which will be useless if they've outclassed your creatures, but then they would have just sat in your hand all game if you'd drawn it anyway, and the rest of the time, you get a burn spell, which in the worst case, you can't play, or have to play for less than it's full value.

So as far as I see it, about 90% of the time it's equivalent to drawing a card, because in the right deck, I think it blanks less than you might imagine.

I don't think the ult will get played much. Most red decks are very creature heavy at the moment, and the +0 is the better ability, so she's unlikely to even get to 7 regularly, and in a burn deck, the +1 doesn't seem worth it.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Duckay » 01 Jul 2013, 17:49

I play a very creature-heavy red deck. Obviously, that's vulnerable to board wipes, but it also has the downside that if my opponent is able to drop a blocker, I can't swing in without him picking off my guys as he blocks. Even if it's an aggressive creature (like Thragtusk or Angel of Serenity), often my opponent will hold it back, using that few turns where I can't swing to move into a position where he can take over the game. Using Chandra's +1 in that situation can help me get in for that last bit of damage (which if my opponent has something like a Thragtusk, Angel of Serenity or a Faithmender out, shouldn't be long).

Alternatively, her +1 can also ping out the little mana-producing guys, or can get rid of aggro guys in a mirror. The downside to that, though, is in an aggro mirror you're better off racing rather than waiting for a turn 4 pinger.

You can also use her 0 to regain some ground by effectively drawing extra cards if you're in a position where you think you can play whatever you exile. So, not useful in every situation, but I can imagine using her.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lurkon » 01 Jul 2013, 18:07

Duckay wrote:I play a very creature-heavy red deck. Obviously, that's vulnerable to board wipes, but it also has the downside that if my opponent is able to drop a blocker, I can't swing in without him picking off my guys as he blocks. Even if it's an aggressive creature (like Thragtusk or Angel of Serenity), often my opponent will hold it back, using that few turns where I can't swing to move into a position where he can take over the game. Using Chandra's +1 in that situation can help me get in for that last bit of damage (which if my opponent has something like a Thragtusk, Angel of Serenity or a Faithmender out, shouldn't be long).

Alternatively, her +1 can also ping out the little mana-producing guys, or can get rid of aggro guys in a mirror. The downside to that, though, is in an aggro mirror you're better off racing rather than waiting for a turn 4 pinger.

You can also use her 0 to regain some ground by effectively drawing extra cards if you're in a position where you think you can play whatever you exile. So, not useful in every situation, but I can imagine using her.

I enjoyed reading that. Thank you.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Duckay » 01 Jul 2013, 18:26

Since I started playing, every time I've tried to predict the usefulness of a planeswalker before the set has been released, I've been wrong. So either I'm getting better at this, or don't trust me. ;)
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lurkon » 01 Jul 2013, 18:38

It's just refreshing to see some positive speculation. When a card is iffy people start discussing why the card might be terrible. I rarely see people explain how such a card might be good. At least not as well as that.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lord Hosk » 01 Jul 2013, 21:34

I hope a death touch sliver comes to be... that would be amazing.

I love death touch.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 01 Jul 2013, 21:47

Yee got my alt art ooze foil voucher.... this thing is going straight into my commander deck ^_^ unless I can convince someone to give me 3 more codes, then they're going in a Standard deck
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby phlip » 01 Jul 2013, 21:52

Utilitarian wrote:Yee got my alt art ooze foil voucher.... this thing is going straight into my commander deck ^_^ unless I can convince someone to give me 3 more codes, then they're going in a Standard deck

My offer of a trade of my spare Ooze code for a Bonescythe Sliver code from the Xbox is still standing...
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 01 Jul 2013, 22:57

Lord Hosk wrote:I hope a death touch sliver comes to be... that would be amazing.

I love death touch.


If they print one of those, with the first-strike sliver out there, it would be absurd. They're already reprinting that absurd 4 drop that will make slivers incredibly powerful.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 02 Jul 2013, 08:33

Man, looking through the M14 spoilers and I gotta say I'm kind of surprised how much specific deliberate inter-card synergy they're building into this set. It really feels like they're per-fabricating decks almost.

Obviously there's the Slivers, but now you've got this set of Witch related cards, the Shadowborn Apostle deck, the red/green beast/beast handler cards, and frankly this pyromancer's gauntlet thing has USE ME WITH THE NEW CHANDRA printed all over it.

It's an interesting direction, usually this kind of synergy is sort of implied rather than directly stated.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lurkon » 02 Jul 2013, 09:20

Utilitarian wrote:Man, looking through the M14 spoilers and I gotta say I'm kind of surprised how much specific deliberate inter-card synergy they're building into this set. It really feels like they're per-fabricating decks almost.

Obviously there's the Slivers, but now you've got this set of Witch related cards, the Shadowborn Apostle deck, the red/green beast/beast handler cards, and frankly this pyromancer's gauntlet thing has USE ME WITH THE NEW CHANDRA printed all over it.

It's an interesting direction, usually this kind of synergy is sort of implied rather than directly stated.

I like this, especially for things like core sets. I know some people who think they were broken, but I was rather fond of the Of Empires set of cards.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Drecon » 02 Jul 2013, 10:24

What I really love about it is that there are a lot of evocative cards in the set. I especially love the whale that eats people.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 02 Jul 2013, 16:24

Gots my promo Ooze. The foiling on it is super subtle, it's easy to miss if it's not in the right light
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lemegeton » 04 Jul 2013, 01:12

so yeah went over the preview cards last night and yeah they really are "spelling out" some of the synergies and combos in this set. the lifegain/angels archetype looks pretty sweet atm.

also that hydra who enters with 4 +1/+1 counters that doubles his counters and all other counters when he attacks is going to be ridiculous in my Jund deck. which runs Corpsejack menace and has counters as a big theme.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lord Hosk » 04 Jul 2013, 01:23

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KITTY!


Also, I always thought that Fblthp (Totally Lost) was too expensive and couldnt figure out why people thought it was so good and now I see Time ebb (2U put target creature on top of its owners library Sorcery) and think "yeah that is more what I would play" I know that totally lost can get rid of any non land permanent but I never saw it used as anything but creature removal so this to me is just better, am I wrong?
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lemegeton » 04 Jul 2013, 05:25

for M14 i am doing something that James suggested on the LR podcast. I am doing my own card evaluation as they are spoiled and writing down my thoughts and giving each card a rating and then seeing how that compares to the 'experts' as it were.
i can def feel its a worthwhile exercise.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby tamaness » 04 Jul 2013, 07:23

Lord Hosk wrote:I never saw it used as anything but creature removal so this to me is just better, am I wrong?


Losing removal for planeswalkers, enchantments, and artifacts is worth a discount of (2). I think Totally Lost is still good main deck material, though, but the local meta is pretty heavy on planeswalker combos.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lurkon » 04 Jul 2013, 07:30

Lord Hosk wrote:Also, I always thought that Fblthp (Totally Lost) was too expensive and couldnt figure out why people thought it was so good and now I see Time ebb (2U put target creature on top of its owners library Sorcery) and think "yeah that is more what I would play" I know that totally lost can get rid of any non land permanent but I never saw it used as anything but creature removal so this to me is just better, am I wrong?

There's only one thing you're "missing" in that evaluation, and that is that Totally Lost is an instant. The ability to do it on your opponent's turn is one of the things that makes it worthwhile. I know I have Excommunicate in The Supreme Court (Sphinx Commander), and was VERY disappointed last game I played to realize it was a sorcery. I would definitely have paid the extra two mana to play Totally Lost instead, and in fact, I would change the card out if Excommunicate wasn't so damn flavorful in the deck.
Know of any other instants that do something like that but have names that sound like judgements?

Edit: A quick search on the gatherer gave me Banishment Decree
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby tamaness » 04 Jul 2013, 07:41

oh goodness, the things we do for flavor.

I've built a Pack Rats deck, and I ran out of standard-legal rats, so I put in Basilica Screecher and Bloodhunter bat, and then I needed card draw, because Pack Rats likes cards, so I put in Blood Scrivener. I also had corpse blockades, because who doesn't like sacrificing Drainpipe Vermin for double value.

I was going to call it "rats and rats and rats," but since I had to put in bats (for fliers, and because I needed more mans), it was "rats and bats and rats." I decided that didn't work so well as a title, so I swapped the corpses for Black Cats (1 mana makes a lot of difference), and renamed it "rats and bats and cats."

Flavor.

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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lurkon » 04 Jul 2013, 07:48

madAlric wrote:Lurkon: Trostani's Judgment

Definitely a good option, but I don't have many tokens in the deck and I have all the dead text I can stand in Sphinx of the Chimes whose ability might as well read "I'm useless in Commander". He's a Sphinx though, so he gets in.

Also, I like the banishment because if they have to shuffle the library because of some card they played and I banish their commander in response, then I'm unlikely to see that card again that match.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby JQuill » 04 Jul 2013, 23:35

Lord Hosk wrote:Also, I always thought that Fblthp (Totally Lost) was too expensive and couldnt figure out why people thought it was so good and now I see Time ebb (2U put target creature on top of its owners library Sorcery) and think "yeah that is more what I would play" I know that totally lost can get rid of any non land permanent but I never saw it used as anything but creature removal so this to me is just better, am I wrong?


My thinking is that they are basically equal in general, as the trade for just creatures and sorcery speed is about on-par with the 2 less mana cost. Now in limited I think the only creature thing isn't much of a deal as most games you'll likely just be dealing with creatures. The instant/sorcery thing is still relevant, although possibly a tiny bit less in limited. So in limited, I do like Time Ebb quite a bit more.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 04 Jul 2013, 23:53

Holy crap, Gladecover Scout is being reprinted! Hexproof auras is back and it's HUNGRY
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby phlip » 05 Jul 2013, 04:20

Overheard at FNM draft: "If only I'd drawn another land that last turn, I could have cast both my Structural Collapses for the win."
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