The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

[ZePancakes]

It's gonna be fun on the bun!

[Lord Hosk]

I have just competed the worst draft I have ever experienced by far.

Game one 14 land, 0 spells drawn
Game two 12 land, 1 spell drawn

game three 7 No land 6 1 land 5 2 land NO MORE LAND
game four Mul to 6 15 land 2 spells drawn

Game 5 deck worked perfectly won in 6 turns, guy says "how did you lose 0-4 games with that deck?"
Game 6 13 land drawn I say "thats how I lost 4 games
game 7 draw two land 7 I keep... I draw 9 lands never drawing my third color I play two spells a corps blocade and a tressel troll.

I had aetherling in hand, but uncastable in 5 games.

[Jamfalcon]

I believe the appropriate phrase here is "ING SHUFFLER!"

[Lord Hosk]

I like to play magic win or lose but that wasnt playing magic that was just getting kicked in the teeth. the fact that they went past turn 10 when I couldnt do anything was just painful... in the first match I was up 13 minutes on the guy.

[Drecon]

Ugh, I've had bad luck before, but never that much all at the same time.

[Lyinginbedmon]

I've had similar runs, but a friend of mine is almost legendary for them. Somehow, whenever he shuffles a deck, whoever's deck it may be, he just completely obliterates any sense of fair randomness in it, resulting in the deck routinely screwing him over.

And this isn't even a statistically higher chance of it happening to him, this is every single time.

We've even named the phenomenon after him, we call it "Ricky'ing" a deck.

[Kapol]

I hate it so much when a deck just shits on me all night. That happened at the free night a couple weeks back. I had one good match out of five. That match I won handily as my deck actually did halfway decent. Not well, but halfway decent. Another match was awful besides one game that went well, but my opponent had all the answers. Which I was pretty much fine with. It was annoying, but to go from that for my first match, to my deck either flooding me with mana or screwing me over was awful.

/rant of represed memories.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Being already fairly accustomed to using blue for counterspells, there's usually a tutor spell or three in my decks, or barring that a cheap plan B.

[Sky_rider19]

Okay,Just how possible would it be to build a Master of Cruelties/Ninja Modern deck or a standard deck with him? Ever since seeing him I have wanted to make a one but I just don't know where to start. Red/Black are my usual colors so I'm not sure how much burn/removal to pack along with creatures.

[Lord Hosk]

I would recommend as many tutors as you can find and at least 20 burn spells. Perhaps a bump in the night maybe?

if you go with Adun Oakenshield, you could throw in lots of the big green walls plus some of the trample effects, and get the master back if he dies.

Kaalia of the Vast is nice.

Lyzolda, the Blood Witch is cheep and just ends someone after an attack burn or no burn.

ETA: Woops, I thought you were talking commander for some reason and I get excited... never mind.

[Utilitarian]

So, I'm listening to the LR set review, as per the usual filled with great information and opinions... And then. I come to this...

When talking about Congregate and the question of "how much lifegain would be enough to be worth running a card that only gained you life?" Now, I like lifegain more than most, but I also recognize that there are issues with lifegain in that it doesn't put you ny closer to winning, but then we come to this statement from Marshall:

"Maybe if it gained 20 life, I would consider running it"

What the hell? This is really going too far. This is really representing a principled idea getting in the way of rational thinking. How could anyone think that W3 instant gain 20 life wasn't worth playing? I realize the 5/5 giant is the star of feudkiller's verdict but even just the 10 life from that is almost always relevant, and twice that? Getting your entire original life total over again? Jesus. Lifegain might not be the best, but it is worth plenty more than it's being given credit for

[Lurkon]

So, I'm listening to the LR set review, as per the usual filled with great information and opinions... And then. I come to this...

When talking about Congregate and the question of "how much lifegain would be enough to be worth running a card that only gained you life?" Now, I like lifegain more than most, but I also recognize that there are issues with lifegain in that it doesn't put you ny closer to winning, but then we come to this statement from Marshall:

"Maybe if it gained 20 life, I would consider running it"

What the hell? This is really going too far. This is really representing a principled idea getting in the way of rational thinking. How could anyone think that W3 instant gain 20 life wasn't worth playing? I realize the 5/5 giant is the star of feudkiller's verdict but even just the 10 life from that is almost always relevant, and twice that? Getting your entire original life total over again? Jesus. Lifegain might not be the best, but it is worth plenty more than it's being given credit for

Agreed. And as far as limited is concerned? If you can get one of those worms that ETBs with a +1/+1 counter on it for every life gained this turn... I can see these cards being good in limited. I've never really gotten why lifegain is hated on so much. I get that Angel's Mercy is a bad card most of the time, sure. But the idea that a card that only gains you life is a complete waste of a card is flawed, I think.

[Duckay]

I disagree, generally. A card that does nothing but gain you life does nothing to interact with the board or your opponent, and doesn't get you any closer to winning the game. It just buys you extra time.

Life gain is relevant sometimes, but as far as I'm concerned, a card that does nothing except buy you extra time is suboptimal, because you could be drawing and playing a card that gets you closer to winning instead.

ETA: That said, there's a point where the life gain would become much more relevant, and I think 20 is above that.

[Utilitarian]

But you see Duckay that's a contradiction in terms. All life gain, no matter how much, doesn't do anything except buy you extra time, as it were. Even 20 life. Even 40 life. even 300 life still doesn't do anything except "buy you extra time" still doesn't "advance you board"

Yet, clearly if I have a card that gains me 300 life, that's a good card.

The idea that there's somehow this magical number that makes lifegain go from not being good to being good is silly.

It's about the value of what it gives you.

Lightning Helix is considered to be an absurdly premium card, far more premium than Searing Spear, I think most would agree, yet all it does it give you a few life. Why is 3 life given to you on Lightning Helix so great?

People will, again and again, say that they love "incidental" life gain in the style of Lightning Helix, Centaur's Herald, or Sphinx's Revelation, but get down on pure lifegain mechanics no matter how much they provide.

I accept that Angel's Mercy is a bad card, but it is not a bad card because it gains you life, it's a bad card because it doesn't provide enough benefit for what it costs. Yes lifegain only buys you time, but time is a valuable resource, especially for particular decks. The question is not "does this card only buy me time" it's "does this card buy me ENOUGH time to be worth using in my deck?"

To see this all you need to do is look at a simple comparison.

Two cards, both cost 3 colourless mana to cast at instant speed

Card A: Opponent loses 1 life
Card B: You gain 10 life

Which is better? According to the philosophy that anything that doesn't get you any closer to winning is worse than anything that does get you closer to winning, Card A is superior, but I don't think anyone would say that.

Maybe you think that both cards are bad. Fine. The fact that some amount of lifegain is better than some amount of damage shows quite clearly that there's nothing inherently bad about lifegain, it's just that is a somewhat less valuable resource and thus we expect more of it per mana/card.

[Volafortis]

Power level is largely determined by cost, and neither of those cards you listed are worth the card that you're running.

The issue is, at ANY mana cost, either of those cards are still bad, and you should be running something else. A zero mana card that only gained me ten life? I'd still rather be running removal. Zero mana, ping for one? More tempting than the 10 life, but still not a winner.

It's the same reason why Index is a bad card.

However, these effects function fantastically as "rider" effects. You wouldn't ever pay upfront for that effect with a card, but rearranging my library, pinging for one, and gaining life all are terrific effects to throw on as a bonus.

Similarly, all of these effects also become good when repeatable, but that's a whole other deal.

I think the point at which that number becomes big enough for people is when they can use it to turn losses into draws in tournaments by going to time, and that really doesn't strike me as good for the game.

EDIT: for clarification: Basically, these effects become good by themself on a card when they become effectively a different effect. Huge lifegain is basically a repeated fog. Index for enough cards, and it's basically a tutor. Life-loss just straight-up becomes card worthy as burn at any amount over 1. (I'm pretty sure 0 mana Target player loses 2 life would see play)

[tamaness]

That's why I'd much rather run a Spike Weaver over Fog. He's a 3/3 for 4 who also does other things, one of which is 1: fog.

[Volafortis]

Fog is another amazing rider effect (and, boy, is it annoying when repeated, as anyone who's ever stared down Gideon Jura can attest).

[Duckay]

I wouldn't say it's a contradiction, but I could have put it better. Basically, I think it needs enough gain to buy you more time than a different card in the same spot would have done. For example, I don't rate one turn worth of gain, because I would have prefered to have drawn the card I needed that turn instead of delaying a turn for it. But lifegain with something else changes the tempo while achieving something else I want to do, and sufficient lifegain for cost... I would probably not play it but I can't say that it's strictly bad (it's just not my style).

[phlip]

A spell that just gains you enough life to survive a turn is straight-up a waste of a card, no discussion. A spell that gains you enough life to survive two turns is not absolutely terrible, but I'd rate it far below, say, Divination, and that's often a 24th in the kinds of decks I usually play. My thinking being that lifegain to survive another two turns lets you draw two more cards, as Divination does... and on one hand, you have to turns to play them (so more mana available, so you'll probably be able to play them both), but on the other hand, your opponent also gets more turns, and draws more cards, so it's not card advantage, just more opportunities to hit your outs.

If it saved you for three or four more turns then it's starting to get into the level where I'd consider running it... and even then, it would be in the 23rd/24th card range. And in your average getting-crushed scenario, that's probably around the 20 life mark.

[ZePancakes]

Eh I'm having the worst run on MTGO, two drop outs due to power outage and another being stopped by land screw. I had Pack Rat ready to go but the land didn't come (this was after 2 mulls due to having 1 landers with opposite coloured cards as well). WHERE ART THOU MTGO GODS!

EDIT: Also in that match the dude had pulled a Voice AND a Baron my oh my

[Lurkon]

Eh I'm having the worst run on MTGO, two drop outs due to power outage and another being stopped by land screw. I had Pack Rat ready to go but the land didn't come (this was after 2 mulls due to having 1 landers with opposite coloured cards as well). WHERE ART THOU MTGO GODS!

EDIT: Also in that match the dude had pulled a Voice AND a Baron my oh my

Wheeeeeee!

[ZePancakes]

Haha should be 'ING SHUFFLER'

EDIT: As a consolation prize, I won 3 packs. Highlight was getting my first ever draw due to Volatile Rig killing us both.

[Fantazme]

Did my M14 midnight prerelease last night, didn;t go well. Wasn't rested enough for it and made a few horrible misplays. Didn't open a great pool either, although that seemed to be the theme- not a lot of quality cards going around.

Although someone recognised my LRR shirt, so that's a bonus.

[Kapol]

Little update on the deck I shared. My Izzet stupidity deck went 2/2, thanks to one bye. But most of the time the losses were due to not drawing into either my answers or more draw. I think the deck was hurt a lot by me not being able to get the last two Think Twice I needed for the deck.

For the pre-release, I ended up getting top 8 and 18 packs. I think I could have gotten first, but I drew out one match (which we played out and I would have won) and played stupidly the next. My pool had powerful green and some good white. The white included an Archangel of Thune and the green a Primeval Bounty. Both of those cards just ended the game if my opponent let them stay on the field. Which lead to my losing my last match partially because the guy drew into all of his answers for my archangel and I got mana screwed pretty hard.

Didn't get anything much in the prize packs other than a Garruk. But considering everything else, I'm very happy with what I got.

[AzureAngel17]

3-1 in the prerelease. Didn't open anything valuable, but Nightmare (that's my horse! *slap*) and Garruk's Horde made a good top-end for my green-black ramp deck. When it wasn't churning out a few fatties it also had a decent midgame with some vampire tribal (aided by a Door of Destinies) and a nice little sacrifice subtheme. Apparently Blood Bairn really likes the taste of saproling tokens and mana elves.