The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Volafortis » 31 Aug 2013, 02:00

Need to round out my Thoughtseize playset, so the reprint is nice.

Also, the bow is definitely good. It's a mana sink with great, flexible, versatile utility that ruins your opponent's combat. Sure, in Legacy I'd rather be packing Umezawa's Jitte, but I could easily see it getting played in Modern.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lemegeton » 31 Aug 2013, 16:28

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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 31 Aug 2013, 20:28

Chained to the Rocks: Fuck YOU wizards! I JUST traded away my one R/W shockland. God this is a PERFECT card for my deck too. Arrrrrg.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 31 Aug 2013, 20:36

Utilitarian wrote:Chained to the Rocks: Fuck YOU wizards! I JUST traded away my one R/W shockland. God this is a PERFECT card for my deck too. Arrrrrg.


And now you learned why you never trade away shocks you don't have a playset of. :P

Also, Why is Nylea so much worse than the spoiled blue god? Like, it's not even close. "Oh, I can pay four mana for +2/+2 until end of turn. My creatures get trample too!" Yea, compared to paying 2 to give unblockable, and getting to scry every upkeep. :/

Also, Elspeth is awful.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 31 Aug 2013, 20:43

how is a +1 that puts three blockers on the board, a - ability that blows up any big creatures on the board and keeps her alive, and a sweet emblem awful?

Yes she's expensive but man, seems pretty wicked to me
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 31 Aug 2013, 21:14

She's too slow. Her abilities are situational and even hurt one another. Her emblem basically makes her -3 kill your own guys besides the tokens she's made.

The main problem is that I just don't see her impacting the board enough. Her -3 can change the game if you're opponent is playing midrange and you're playing smaller creatures. But that's entirely based on the matchup. Her +1 ability makes blockers, yes. But they're easy to trample or fly over with no trouble. And her ultimate just seems... underwhelming. Planeswalkers ultimates are supposed to basically win you the game, or at least have a major impact. Her emblem is good, don't get me wrong. But not being able to do it until turn nine (at the very, very best) without ramp or some way to put counters on her makes it so you're very unlikely to do it.

To compare her to the planeswalker that's she's basically the white version of, Garruk does something that I don't think she does. He fits well into a specific deck. Garruk isn't great in any deck other than the one he's meant for. But in a creature-heavy deck where his +1 can draw you a good deal of cards, he's great. His -3 gives you whatever relevant threat you have in hand, or that his +1 gave you. And if you get his -7, you get to play free creatures straight from your deck in a way that can't be countered.

Yea, he's only good for that deck. But what deck does she go in? I mentioned elsewhere I can see her being decent in control. Being able to Supreme Verdict then use her ability to get three creatures seems alright. And her ultimate will help the creatures. Her -3 can be used if it'll help, but doesn't have to be. But being able to keep making 1/1s to kill your opponent with seems her best use.

But even in that position, I'd rather have a Sphinx's Revelation for 3. Or an Atherling. There are still better options.

That's my opinion though. And I'm coming from a competitive standpoint, as well as a more standard-based standpoint (though I'm sure the same reasons will hurt her in older formats too). I don't -hate- her. I think she can be a fun card, and I will very likely put her in my Ghave EDH. But that doesn't make her good.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby JQuill » 31 Aug 2013, 22:01

Underworld Cerberus is insane, and I'm not even necessarily talking power-wise (although it does seem strong). The flavor is just awesome, not being able to be blocked except by 3 or more creatures, graveyards not being able to be targeted, and having all the dead creatures come back if it dies, just perfect.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lemegeton » 01 Sep 2013, 00:44

the ultimate on elspeth is meh and her -3 really pushes her towards control decks but like kapol said those decks have much better uses for 6 mana. time will tell.

rescue from the underworld might be good if the set has some good enter/leave the battlefield effects.

hammer of purphoros is not good IMO. for an extra mana i would rather ogre battledriver. the sac land ability is built for long game but thats just not what you want to be doing in red.

rageblood shaman suggests there are at least a few minotaurs in the set so maybe tribal minotaurs with reckoner will be a thing.

nylea is pretty weak. the +2+2 ability is just too expensive . if you can keep opp under 5 devotion then its a dead card. thassa in comparison is still very relevant even if its never a creature.

underworld cerberus is a sideboard card for me. its fantastic to side in against control but with 2 creature heavy decks its too much of a risk that his last ability helps your opp more than you
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Volafortis » 01 Sep 2013, 11:30

Elspeth won't be played in older formats because she's 6 mana, simple as that.

Beyond that, I think people are under valuing her +1 and ultimate. They have incredible synergy, and you'll have a ton of soldiers by the time you can drop that ultimate.

The whole "the 1/1's can be trampled over" argument is assuming that the control player didn't just board wipe a turn or two before dropping this.

In a control shell, this can totally take over the game. Would I run it over Aetherling? Maybe, maybe not, it's really a meta call.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 01 Sep 2013, 11:53

Right. That's why I mentioned seeing her being decent in control. Her abilities could be exactly what the control player needs. A reliable source of creatures to refill after board wipe. And getting her ultimate helps pump everything you have. But I'm just not sure if she's going to be the best option. It'll largely depend on the meta, as you mentioned. It'll also depend on what we get in Theros for ways to deal with planeswalkers (direct damage and things like that). I'm just going with how I feel about her. She's by no means Tibalt-bad. But I find her disappointing at best.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Jamfalcon » 01 Sep 2013, 14:34

I'm just going to jump in here and say, while I don't play limited/standard, the new Elspeth has a lot of potential in commander, especially if you make a low P/T focused deck.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 01 Sep 2013, 21:13

Hundred-Handed One just made me laugh harder than anything else in a long time.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby korvys » 01 Sep 2013, 21:39

Yes, I love it.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby phlip » 01 Sep 2013, 22:32

Theros achievement challenge: Attack into a monstrous Hundred-Handed One with over 100 creatures. Make it functionally relevant that it doesn't just say "can block any number of creatures".
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 01 Sep 2013, 23:00

Well... I suppose it's hypothetically relevant versus "create infinite 1/1" combos? -_^

*edit* also wonder if Omenspeaker is just going to straight replace Augur of Bolas after rotation

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*edit*

Heliod: Good good, or BEST god?
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 01 Sep 2013, 23:13

Utilitarian wrote:Heliod: Good good, or BEST god?


He's not that great for the most part. I like him better than Nylea, just because 4 mana actually makes a creature, and I like Vigilance more than trample.

He fits into one type of deck very, very well though... the enchantment deck. Since the token he makes is an enchantment, he triggers Oath of the Ancient Wood, Ajani's Chosen, and helps a bunch of other stuff whenever he makes a token. It's still very expensive for a 2/1 enchantment creature, but it's reusable, which makes it more playable.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lurkon » 01 Sep 2013, 23:24

I'm really appreciating Theros flavor. The mechanics look real good, too. And did I see a card that almost actually lets you build around scry as a win condition? I've always seen scry as a support card, but if there are going to be cards that do things when you scry... That might be a fun deck.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby nicholasmc1 » 02 Sep 2013, 00:43

Lurkon wrote:I'm really appreciating Theros flavor. The mechanics look real good, too. And did I see a card that almost actually lets you build around scry as a win condition? I've always seen scry as a support card, but if there are going to be cards that do things when you scry... That might be a fun deck.

Scry interactions sounds sweet, what was the example?
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lemegeton » 02 Sep 2013, 00:47

i like that heliod makes an enchantment creature token. could wizards be any more telegraphing the mono white control/sphere of safety deck :lol:

hundred handed one is just damn funny. might pop up in control decks. too slow for anything else.

titan of eternal fire could be a really good match with the bow of nylea IF there is any vigilance humans.

daxos of meletis is a nice option for control against midrange.

polis crusher is just beyond horrid. the whole monstrous mechanic so far is terrible. the costs are just ridiculous for what are very marginal effects. even if the limited format is slow its bad. its ok if you are out of cards and want to do something with your mana. but so far i have not seen a monstrous effect i would want over playing a spell.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 02 Sep 2013, 01:13

Lemegeton wrote:polis crusher is just beyond horrid. the whole monstrous mechanic so far is terrible. the costs are just ridiculous for what are very marginal effects. even if the limited format is slow its bad. its ok if you are out of cards and want to do something with your mana. but so far i have not seen a monstrous effect i would want over playing a spell.


I disagree. I think that the 4 drop 5/5 has a pretty good monstrosity effect. It can be removal if you need it to be, scaled with how much mana you have, and makes him larger in the long run. Instant speed means you can kill something bigger if you can get it damaged first. All this on a 5/5 body.

...then again, the big beetle from RTR that was a 5/5 for 4 never saw play.

Hundred-Hands is interesting. And the big blue one wouldn't be as bad if the creature were playable.

EDIT: ...the hell are you talking about? He's pretty solid. He's a 4/4 trample for four. So not bad right there. He has protection from the gods and enchantment-based removal (like the incorrectly rare'd Chained To The Rocks). And he can act as a mana sink to at instant-speed (so your opponent's end step) to become a 7/7 trampler with what will likely be a very relevant ability given what we've been seeing (consider that being able to destroy enchantments can actually become straight removal in this set).

He seems really solid to me. Not great, but pretty good.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lemegeton » 02 Sep 2013, 04:31

Kapol wrote:
I disagree. I think that the 4 drop 5/5 has a pretty good monstrosity effect. It can be removal if you need it to be, scaled with how much mana you have, and makes him larger in the long run. Instant speed means you can kill something bigger if you can get it damaged first. All this on a 5/5 body.

he is one of the better ones in terms of limited. a solid body for 4 mana. i just dont see the monstrosity effect as impactful unless the game goes really long. you need to spend 5 mana to deal 2 dmg to something, 7 mana to deal 3 ...etc.


Kapol wrote:EDIT: ...the hell are you talking about? He's pretty solid.
.


oops i blame the monday morning cobwebs on that one. looked at the spoilers when i got into work and totally missed the text about trample and protection. he is really good and if a lot of the enchantment creatures hit standard then he could be the new go-to 4 drop for jund/midrange. also nice that detention sphere and the like is a dead card against him.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lurkon » 02 Sep 2013, 08:44

nicholasmc1 wrote:
Lurkon wrote:I'm really appreciating Theros flavor. The mechanics look real good, too. And did I see a card that almost actually lets you build around scry as a win condition? I've always seen scry as a support card, but if there are going to be cards that do things when you scry... That might be a fun deck.

Scry interactions sounds sweet, what was the example?

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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Juliamon » 02 Sep 2013, 10:31

Just the fact that we've been shown a bunch of high-cost stuff makes me think they're holding back on showing us some great ramp stuff. THS is supposed to be a faster limited format than ROE so I think it might be too early to be declaring Monstrosity creatures as too expensive.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Jamfalcon » 02 Sep 2013, 10:36

Green (or mono-green, at least) already has some pretty effective ramp in Karametra's Acolyte. It could easily be tapping for three or four mana on turn five.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 02 Sep 2013, 18:19

Lemegeton wrote:he is one of the better ones in terms of limited. a solid body for 4 mana. i just dont see the monstrosity effect as impactful unless the game goes really long. you need to spend 5 mana to deal 2 dmg to something, 7 mana to deal 3 ...etc.


Here's the thing, I see him being a good way to kill little guys. Like I see him being a good way for green to handle the 2/2 annoying U/W guy who green is gonna have trouble blocking. Even without that, I see him being useful getting rid of a lot of little stuff while making himself even bigger, and doing so at instant speed.

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