The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

A place to talk about standard, casual, limited and everything in between.
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Kapol
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 15 Mar 2013, 20:15

What exactly is the axebane challenge anyways?

Also, went to FNM tonight. First time I ever tied due to time running out before. The rest of the night went badly, and ended with me being called a cheater by a new player. Fun. :/
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lord Hosk » 15 Mar 2013, 21:25

Ramp into Axebane Stag with axebane guardians in RTR limited.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby DSmaster21 » 15 Mar 2013, 21:27

It seems like I am always get matched up with a ten yr. I am never sure if the owners think I am good influence or the reverse or that we are similarly skilled. (Although I adopt formats late I still end up placing top four consistently for the last one or two months before the next set). I don't know all the rules all the time but between !Judge! and the full rule book on my laptop I get through my forgetfulness. It is a matter of being adaptable and not getting mad when things don't go well.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 15 Mar 2013, 23:15

FNM Tonight, I think the most fun I've had at one.

Actually finally played some Standard, went 2/2 with my "the most expensive thing in this deck is the breeding pools" Simic deck, which isn't bad. Lost the first two rounds to a 600$ deck (full Aurelias, Thundermaws, Thragtusks, the works) which I was just like "welp that's a thing that happened" lost round 2 to a pretty standard Bant control, though that one was a close 2/1. Won my next two games against what were pretty clearly "I drafted these cards" decks.

Best moment, Mystic Genesis on my opponent's tapped out Sphinx's Revelation

2/1 in the Draft, went Borzov. Win and then a close loss including a game where I'd have won if I drew ANY spell three turns in a row -_- Over all, had a grand time. Was... somewhat sad to see that my local shop evidently has some seriously insane decks being played in it. Didn't open any money though. Sadface.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Duckay » 16 Mar 2013, 00:28

Alright, here's a thing.

Recently I played in a draft and the following situation happened.

Them: I'll swing with Metropolis Sprite and pay 1 to give it +1/-1.
Me: In response, I'll play Beckon Apparition, exiling (some card from my graveyard, forget what) to create a spirit and block the sprite.
Them: You can't do that now, you missed the declare blockers step.
Me: You didn't give me a chance to declare blocks yet.
Them: Well, then I won't pay the 1 for the sprite unless you don't block.

They were being kind of pushy and I didn't want to start a fight over a tournament that wasn't that serious so I backed off. But I want to know:

a) Was I right in what I was trying to do, and in thinking that he shouldn't have been able to 'take back' using the sprite's ability until I had actually said no blocks?
b) Any advice on how I can handle this situation in future gracefully?

I feel like that by insisting on 'taking back' his action, even after I pointed out that I wouldn't have created a blocker at instant speed if he hadn't done that, he was playing, well, unfairly. If you do something in a tournament, even if it's not a high-stakes one, you shouldn't be able to 'take back' an action just because your opponent does something unexpected in response.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 16 Mar 2013, 00:41

That was indeed an illegal move on his part. He says

"Declare attackers. Pump Sprite"

At no point have you indicated that you have passed priority to allow the transition to the Declare Blockers step. He, of course, assumed you would not be declaring any blockers because he was being short sighted, so he assumed that when he declared the pump on the sprite was irrelevant.

I would assume that, if questioned about it in a vacuum, he would have said "well of course I only pump the sprite in blockers to play around suddenly appearing blockers!" But as the situation played out, he didn't do that.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Volafortis » 16 Mar 2013, 00:46

If they don't give you the opportunity to declare blockers, and use the ability without acknowledging that they've moved past declaring blockers step of combat, they used the ability before blockers were declared, technically. At a competitive REL, they would've been required to suck it up and deal with your block and trade.

That said, often, as long as it wasn't a frequent occurrence from the player, and as long as they're not an asshole, and it's just a casual draft of FNM, I'd allow them to take it back the first time they make the mistake, as a lot of newer players tend to rush through steps. After the first time, though, I'd definitely start catching them on it, as the only way they'll learn not to make that mistake is to lose from it a few times.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Lord Hosk » 16 Mar 2013, 00:54

There is a little wiggle room.

They could activate the ability after the declare blockers step since abilities happen at instant speed.

its iffy based on how they said it but I would say they activated the ability before your declare blockers step so in response to their activation you create your spirit and kill his sprite.

After they declared attackers, there is a priority where each player can "respond" they clearly did this with their pump, you would then be able to respond to their response. After the stack resolves which would be you exile a card, you create a spirit, they pump (which would have to happen since its on the stack) if no one else has a "response" you can declare blockers. which they could then respond to and you could respond to their response. then damage is dealt then there is a check to see if any creature has damage over their toughness which they each do killing both creatures.


Them being kinda pushy in a low stakes event is bad form on their part, letting it slide was the best way to handle it from the "graceful" standpoint but it seems they were in the wrong and they knew it but didnt want to lose.

How to handle it gracefully, say "you are incorrect, your sprite should die but I will let it slide this time to keep play going, You dont attack, I wont block lets play the game" or "you are incorrect, your sprite should die but I will let it slide this time to keep play going,I wont cast this but keep in mind that I can cast it in response to your attack if you do that again"

How to handle it by the rules say "no, you declared attackers and activated the ability together you never asked if I have a response there are plenty of options, I could have this card, or a creature with flying and flash. I respond to your activation with the spell and create the spirit and block with it, your sprite dies, sorry thats the rules"

How to handle it if they protest. "JUDGE!"

"They declared their attack and said he would activate the ability I responded with this card and block, their sprite dies correct?"

(also typing spirit and sprite over and over is hard)
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Duckay » 16 Mar 2013, 11:24

Volafortis wrote:That said, often, as long as it wasn't a frequent occurrence from the player, and as long as they're not an asshole, and it's just a casual draft of FNM, I'd allow them to take it back the first time they make the mistake, as a lot of newer players tend to rush through steps. After the first time, though, I'd definitely start catching them on it, as the only way they'll learn not to make that mistake is to lose from it a few times.


I guess part of the reason why it bugged me so much is because I know the person in question has been playing more than long enough and frequently enough to know better.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 16 Mar 2013, 11:37

Personally, I would have called a judge over if that person was being pushy about it. When he knows he did wrong but basically is forcing you to let him survive anyways, that's when it's time to call a judge. If it were a newer player then I'd likely have just let it go depending on the situation.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Duckay » 16 Mar 2013, 11:40

It's true. I shouldn't have let him get away withit.

Really the advice I need is to stand my ground. ;)
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Dubious_wolf » 17 Mar 2013, 20:10

First incarnation of Zur, the Enchanter has been assembled. At least I finally have something to play with at MTG.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby JQuill » 17 Mar 2013, 20:43

So I watched a lot of the coverage this weekend of GP San Diego, a Modern event won by an Eggs deck. All I could think of though watching when it was one of the featured matches was the most recent Friday Nights... so congrats to Jer, apparently in my mind you just won a GP!
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby phlip » 17 Mar 2013, 21:33

Presumably whoever actually won the GP knows that an Eggs deck can just continue to go off in response to the "Draw a card" triggers, rather than letting them resolve and getting decked by them...
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby JQuill » 17 Mar 2013, 22:10

phlip wrote:Presumably whoever actually won the GP knows that an Eggs deck can just continue to go off in response to the "Draw a card" triggers, rather than letting them resolve and getting decked by them...


Yes I believe so :lol:

The player who won with it was Nathan Holiday and he obviously knew the deck very well as even when he was going off with it, it was all really quick and smooth (well as quick as it can be when you're going off with an Eggs deck).

Probably the highlight of watching it though was when he was up against Brian Kibler, who brought out an actual "F6" and put it on the table when all the combo stuff was going off.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 17 Mar 2013, 22:50

JQuill wrote:
phlip wrote:Presumably whoever actually won the GP knows that an Eggs deck can just continue to go off in response to the "Draw a card" triggers, rather than letting them resolve and getting decked by them...


Yes I believe so :lol:

The player who won with it was Nathan Holiday and he obviously knew the deck very well as even when he was going off with it, it was all really quick and smooth (well as quick as it can be when you're going off with an Eggs deck).

Probably the highlight of watching it though was when he was up against Brian Kibler, who brought out an actual "F6" and put it on the table when all the combo stuff was going off.

That's just fantastic.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Jenelmo » 18 Mar 2013, 02:26

Not only did Kibler use a "F6" he went to the bathroom
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Yaxley » 18 Mar 2013, 06:50

Wow. Is there any coverage of that online? I would love to see that.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Jenelmo » 18 Mar 2013, 11:54

On their Youtube Channel you can see you can see matches from round 4-15 + Top 8
http://www.youtube.com/user/ggslive?feature=g-subs-u
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Utilitarian » 18 Mar 2013, 18:35

Man... Modern is... less fun to watch than Standard and Limited.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Del » 18 Mar 2013, 19:22

Here, let me fix that for you

Utilitarian wrote:Man... Modern is... less fun
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Dubious_wolf » 18 Mar 2013, 22:15

Yeah most of the constructed formats suck.
Although I did play a simic deck a friend had pit together teo fridays ago.
2 and 3 but I was cackling like a mad man I was having so much fun.
In other words having a competently put together deck of cards helps. (But I refuse to drop $200.)
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 18 Mar 2013, 22:17

I like standard. But I'm not going to delve into Modern and Legacy anytime soon. Having access to almost any card can just be absurd. I'm even hesitant to even get into Commander for that reason.

But I still prefer limited. Too bad I don't like drafting on MTGO much.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Dubious_wolf » 18 Mar 2013, 22:46

At least with edh you only need one copy of a card.
And it helps with randomness to the point there aren't 0 turn win conditions.
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Re: The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

Postby Kapol » 18 Mar 2013, 22:54

Except there are some good cards that cost $40 a piece. So you might not need four of them, but given you have a 100 card deck, it can actually end up costing you more (in theory).

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