The General Magic: The Gathering Thread

[Lord Hosk]

I was thinking of running a upgraded version of my white green agro deck with heavy focus on the enchantment creatures and counters from the heroic buffs but I am sure it would get destroyed because I dont have enough money rares, and never will.

[tamaness]

That looks like a better version; I had a couple iterations, like I said, but what I came up with was a result of trying to make two stands out of one card. Thanks for the update to the template and the feedback. I think I'll try the new one today and see how stable it is.

[Dix]

I want to make a 3 color Bant deck (or settle for UG) work after enjoying the laughs I had with it in the Pre-release. Hopefully I can make something like that work.

[Jenelmo]

So... this is what I have so far. I've got to make some cuts, though, and I've probably forgotten some obvious invaluable card... I'm no good at constructed deckbuilding...

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Rancor is not standard legal, if you are talking about the STD format after the Rotation as i am assuming as there are Theros cards in the deck list

[Lord Hosk]

Technically rotation isnt until 1201 AM local time on the 27th ;0

[phlip]

Rancor is not standard legal, if you are talking about the STD format after the Rotation as i am assuming as there are Theros cards in the deck list

Ah yes, you are correct, and I am dumb. The rest of the list, I was careful with, but then just before posting I was all "Oh right, how could I forget Rancor?" and added it...

OK, that's out of there. Should be fine, Nylea is essentially the green Rancor, anyway. And now I'm only 4 cards over, instead of eight...

Maybe Dryad Militant shouldn't be in there? It seems odd to be a GW aggro deck and not run the {G/W} 1-mana 2-power dude, but maybe I'm not trying to be quite that fast...

[Utilitarian]

1 mana 2/1's are really only suitable for the absolute balls the the walls agro decks.

The Dryad got a lot of play in other slower agro decks for its ability to hose Snapcasters but now that's not a problem I think you could do without

[phlip]

Yeah, you're probably right. Out it goes. And now it's 60. Yay!

[Kapol]

So, I'm thinking I'll do things a little different this set, and actually get a Standard deck ready at the start of the format, rather than several months in... Trying to build a green splash-white aggroish facepunchy deck... mainly because I want to build around a God, and I think Nylea will be the easiest to encreature, what with Kalonian Tusker, and green's general happiness with putting a billion creatures on the board.

So... this is what I have so far. I've got to make some cuts, though, and I've probably forgotten some obvious invaluable card... I'm no good at constructed deckbuilding...

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Personally, I'd take out the guildgates right away. They're just too slow, especially since you seem to be going for a more aggressive deck. I'm also not a big fan of the shrine. This deck is color-focused enough that it could get you a lot of mana... but you don't really have anything to do with that mana once you have it. Garruk is the only thing I could see. And then you might be getting him out a turn or two early at most.

Advent seems a bit out of place here. It's good, but you can't hit it with Garruk. It's likely good enough to stay in though. You could say the same about the bow. Though I'd say that's worth actually throwing in another one or two of it, along with some frontline medics. This will allow you to swing in in ways that make it impossible for your opponent to profitably block. And once they all have trample.... yea...

Since you're in white and creature focus, throw some Ready//Willing or Rootborn Defenses into your sideboard. Board wipe is going to be a major issue for you otherwise.

I'd say all four Scavenging Oozes should be in the main deck. They're nuts.

If you want to keep in the shrine, and want something to use Garruk's -3 for, throw in 1 or 2 Worldspine Wurms as finishers for your deck.

[phlip]

Good suggestions all... OK, so: minus guildgates and shrine, plus some forests and plainses. Move the two scavenging oozes back into the main, replace them in the side with Ready//Willing (Ready isn't that much harder to cast than Rootborn in this deck, and untap could be relevant). Cut the Bow (rereading it, it doesn't actually look that useful for me) and one Garruk to make room (and to tweak the curve with the shrine cut).

Advent isn't super exciting, since it doesn't synergise with Garruk or Nylea (being neither a Creature spell, nor making a permanent that has a mana cost), but I think it's still a powerful enough spell to be worth running. It's not really a nonbo as such, it just doesn't synergise. And there's still 33 cards of type "Creature" in the deck, so Garruk +1 should be pretty damn close to "draw five".

I'm also not too convinced by Frontline Medic... it seems better in a white-weenie style deck where you have lots of small guys, rather than green beef. I'm more concerned with my guys dying from sweepers and removal, than in the combat step itself.

[Kapol]

The only benefit to having Rootborn over Ready is that, if you keep Advent in, then it can net you an extra 5/5 trample. The untap hasn't been all that relevant from what I've played, mostly because I normally bring it in against board wipe that kills their side anyways. And Garruk is more of a 'draw three' since you're going to usually hit a land or two too.

Without the bow, I wouldn't be so willing to throw the Medic in there. But he's a good mid-game card when the board stalls out. He can let you keep swinging without worrying about a trade or tricks. I might put him in the side over the centaur that gives you three life against midrange decks.

[phlip]

And Garruk is more of a 'draw three' since you're going to usually hit a land or two too.

Sure, but a spell that says "draw five" is usually going to hit a couple of lands too, and they're pretty much blank at that point, since I've already got enough mana to cast my most expensive spell. Though, I guess, I am drawing multiple creatures a turn, so the mana would theoretically be useful... but still, it'll often give me as many spells as a straight "draw five" would.

Without the bow, I wouldn't be so willing to throw the Medic in there. But he's a good mid-game card when the board stalls out. He can let you keep swinging without worrying about a trade or tricks. I might put him in the side over the centaur that gives you three life against midrange decks.

I'm not sure I understand... what does the Bow do that makes the Medic better? Is it just the promise of Deathtouch+Trample if I manage to get both the Bow and Nylea herself out together?

Also: I don't know how well this generalises, or how much it'll change with rotation, but right now the meta at our LGS doesn't have a lot of midrange durdle decks... there's a lot of aggro, and a bit of control, and some amount of midrange combo decks (re-animator, and/or aristocrats), but I'm not anticipating playing against a lot of big guys. Maybe if that shifts, and I have to plan for the mirror, having the Medic in the sideboard could be relevant.

[Kapol]

Sure, but a spell that says "draw five" is usually going to hit a couple of lands too, and they're pretty much blank at that point, since I've already got enough mana to cast my most expensive spell. Though, I guess, I am drawing multiple creatures a turn, so the mana would theoretically be useful... but still, it'll often give me as many spells as a straight "draw five" would.

Keep in mind that Garruk doesn't let you keep the lands. Hence why it's more 'draw 3' than 'draw 5.' The fact you can completely wiff due to lands is relevant, if unlikely. And you seem to have a low enough curve that, if you have Garruk out, you should be able to play at least 2 of the creatures you grab that turn. So it's not too much of a worry.

I'm not sure I understand... what does the Bow do that makes the Medic better? Is it just the promise of Deathtouch+Trample if I manage to get both the Bow and Nylea herself out together?

It's the fact that there's no way your opponent can profitably block. If you only have Frontline out and swinging, then something with four toughness can just block him (and same with anything that has a higher toughness than your creatures' power). The Bow gets rid of that option for your opponent, unless they're willing to lose a creature in the process.

The indestructability you'd get from Frontline means that you don't have to worry about losing your guys if you swing in with him and two others. Which is nice since you could be swinging into a surprise Advent or something like that. With the Bow though, it makes it so your opponent either doesn't block, or they lose the blockers without some way of giving them regen or indestructible.

That's why I like Frontline. The Bow is a nice addition to him, but it's not necessary. As I said, he might be a good sideboard card in case you do end up in that situation. To be frank, I don't really understand why the 3/3 gain 3 life centaur is in there anyways.

Also: I don't know how well this generalises, or how much it'll change with rotation, but right now the meta at our LGS doesn't have a lot of midrange durdle decks... there's a lot of aggro, and a bit of control, and some amount of midrange combo decks (re-animator, and/or aristocrats), but I'm not anticipating playing against a lot of big guys. Maybe if that shifts, and I have to plan for the mirror, having the Medic in the sideboard could be relevant.

Personally, I run into a decent number of midrange-y decks based on my local meta, and a large number of control decks. Pure aggro is less common, as is Aristocrats and the like. So yea, the deck you build should be based on your local meta more than my opinions and suggestions.

[phlip]

Keep in mind that Garruk doesn't let you keep the lands. Hence why it's more 'draw 3' than 'draw 5.' The fact you can completely wiff due to lands is relevant, if unlikely.

Well yeah, my point is that if I played a spell that just said "draw 5" and hit 5 lands, I'd probably call that a whiff too... the fact that I would get to keep the lands wouldn't be that big a deal, ultimately.

[Kapol]

Ah, I see what you were going for now. That's a fair point. But at least if you were able to keep the lands, then you'd be able to play them. And eventually you'd be able to play every creature you drew.

But that's more of a point of syntax than an actual argument. Sorry.

[Lemegeton]

i have been testing some lists with the bow and its a fun card and i def have gotten some ppl with it, the combo with pulokranos is nice. but you need to run at least 3 of them cos you want it early but its such a bad card to draw multiples of. if you have 1 in play then drawing another 1 is a dead draw IMO. if the effects were slightly better you could argue about using the 1 in play, playing your second one ans sac'ing the first. and using an ability on the second. but the effects are too marginal.
its playable with frontline medic for sure but otherwise i don't think its playable in constructed. its a shame, i really liked the card when it was spoiled.

[Kapol]

Since enchantment removal is going to be a thing, I don't think that having multiples is as much of a problem as testing would assume.

Also, ended up getting another pre-release pack. Ended up getting it on Ebay for $22. Partly because I wanted to get some packs, but largely because I wanted to get The Protector card. I opened up my first pack... Xenagos. Second pack, Erebos. Then a Triad of Fates (which seems like it could be a good card, and is great in limited), a Spear of Heliod, a Bow of Nylea, and the murder king. Pretty good deal.

[guidance]

So with GP Vancouver coming in January I want to make a deck to screw with people there. I am not expecting to do well, but giving people a laugh I feel keeps the spirits high so this is the deck currently.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/pillow-fort-madness/

I'm not good at sideboarding so I'm not sure on how to cover all my bases. I don't guarantee I will be able to get all the cards needed for this deck by then but I will try. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Utilitarian]

That's not far off looking like a competitive deck my friend.

I would definitely say it needs a pair of Whips.

[guidance]

What should I take out for them? I guess sphere of safety isn't always pulling it's wait but its just so much fun when it does.

[Utilitarian]

Maybe an arrest and a blind obedience?

[guidance]

Okay, I'l test it out and see how it goes. Thanks.

[Kapol]

So... have you ever had a pick in draft which came back to bite you hard? I mean as in help the person who got it go undefeated hard.

To explain, I was in B/U going into pack 3. I open my pack. Inside is the nighthowler thing (the 1BB card with Bestow for 4 and power/toughness equal to creature cards in graveyards). Snap pick, right? Until I looked at the next card... a foil Chained To The Rocks. :/ I picked the chained to the rocks for max value, then faced down the nighthowler. It killed me. It killed me bad.

[Utilitarian]

My draft tonight:

Opponent plays Agent of Fates on turn 3.

Every turn thereafter

"Enchant my guy. Sac a creature"

I literally could play nothing, as a result could not use my Time to Feed, and never drew my Voyage's End. That card is retarded if you don't have the answer for it.

Didn't do well in the Standard but my deck was still missing a couple of pieces and wow literally everyone I faced was running GR agro -_-

[phlip]

OK, so I played that GW deck at Standard today. It played pretty well, and I ended up 3-1 and came first (out of 10 players, there were no 4-0s). The loss was partly due to some sketchy keeps due to not fully understanding the deck, and some amount of punting, but also it was the mirror and he just had better draws than me pretty often. Here's the final list I ended up with, changes since I last posted it here:

-1 Witchstalker, +1 Advent - the 5/5 is just too beefy to pass up. I might readd the fourth Witchstalker to the board if my local meta shifts a bit more blue (or Esper).
-1 Nylea, +1 Garruk - Having played with Garruk, I realise cutting from 3 to 2 was a mistake. Card is super powerful. Nylea was good, and still worth having, but not as good as Garruk. I might try to squeeze the third Nylea back in, but not sure what I'd cut for it.
-2 Ready//Willing [SB], +2 Rootborn Defenses [SB] - as recommended, the populate for mise (and I did get to populate a Voice token today, for value)
-1 Naturalise [SB], -1 Fade into Antiquity [SB], +2 Sundering Growth [SB] - for the same reason. Actually didn't side any of them in... none of the other players I came up against had really added any scary enchantments from THS yet.

Actually playing in the actual tournament, I couldn't get ahold of a second Kalonian Hydra or the second or third Garruks (no-one had spares for lend or trade) so actually playing in the tournament, I left in the third Nylea, and added a random Mistcutter Hydra and a one-of Bow of Nylea to the main. The bow was pretty much useless for me, and I sided it out every match, while the Hydra was ok, but rarely had much impact unless I was already ahead (though there was one game where I was being beaten down by 5/5s and cast it for 6 and it managed to help me stabilise)... I think I was right leaving that one in the board for blue matchups.

Two of the rounds were versus mono-red... one RDW, one Guttersnipe/Young Pyromancer. Neither fared well against a mainboard of 8 2-mana 3/3s, and then after sideboard bringing in the Centaur Healers and Loxodon Smiters they had no chance. Also beat a Bant Midrange comboish deck with Trostani and Zegana to do various disgusting things... but it never really drew its pieces... except in one game, he managed to get Trostani+Advent going... I managed to trade off with the worm each turn, but he'd keep populating new ones, and I kept losing creatures. But then Garruk saved me by drawing me a million creatures to counteract the bleed to blocking those tokens. And then I ultimated Garruk with 5 cheap creatures in hand and the mana to cast all of them... so I also got to tutor up 5 creatures and dump them on the board. Dumb moron me tutored up two Nyleas for Legend Rule value... which wasn't all bad, as it pumped up the Experiment Ones (of which I had all 4 on the board) to 6/6s, so maybe it wasn't entirely the wrong move. Anyways, it's the first time I've had to say "OK, so I'm not attacking with these 9 creatures, since they have summoning sickness". (That sleeve is a 15/15 Voice token...)

The match I lost was the mirror... though a slightly different build (slightly more of a token theme - Call of the Conclave, mainboard Rootborn Defenses... no Gods, since that doesn't quite work as well, and also he hadn't cracked any yet). I kept some slow hands that I should've mulliganed and got punished. I also played into his Selesnya Charm and Advent long after I should've learned my lesson.

All in all, I like the deck, and I'll probably keep playing it for a while.

I came up with my next casual deck-building challenge during the tournament, though: a mono-black deck, based on the fact that Pack Rat tokens still count towards Devotion. Or maybe GWB rat-populate. I was thinking it's a shame that Cackling Counterpart left the format right when being able to make tokens that are copies of real creatures with mana costs would be useful... when I remembered there's still a card that does that in the format... Some Pack Rats, Erebos, Abhorrent Overlord, Nightmare, Corrupt... could be a deck.