Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby theDreamer » 03 Apr 2012, 14:42

Yes.

You are only allowed 4 of a card except for basic lands, and relentless rats.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby tamaness » 03 Apr 2012, 14:43

Four cards of the same name (translations don't count as a different name), unless the type contains the words "forest," "swamp," "plains," "mountain," or "island," or unless the text on the card states otherwise.

edit:
100.2 defines how many of each card can be in each deck. Card text overrules this.
205.3i defines what constitutes a basic land.
so you can have unlimited Bayou, or Blood Crypt cards (or really any land whose subtype identifies it as one or more basic lands) in your deck.
Last edited by tamaness on 03 Apr 2012, 14:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Elomin Sha » 03 Apr 2012, 14:43

Spoil sports.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Volafortis » 03 Apr 2012, 18:17

madAlric wrote:Four cards of the same name (translations don't count as a different name), unless the type contains the words "forest," "swamp," "plains," "mountain," or "island," or unless the text on the card states otherwise.

edit:
100.2 defines how many of each card can be in each deck. Card text overrules this.
205.3i defines what constitutes a basic land.
so you can have unlimited Bayou, or Blood Crypt cards (or really any land whose subtype identifies it as one or more basic lands) in your deck.


Tundra, Underground Sea, etc.. aren't basic lands. They're only basic if it says basic in the type line. You can't Rampant growth an ABUR dual, or a shock land, and they're still limited to 4 per deck.

All that the subtypes do (Forest, Island, etc..) is give then the innate ability to tap for the appropriate type of mana, and it also allows them to be affected by spells or abilities that target them. (For instance, you can use a fetch land, like Scalding Tarn, to fetch an ABUR dual or shock land, like Tundra or Hallowed Fountain)
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby tamaness » 03 Apr 2012, 18:21

Huh. I guess I misread that keywords thread.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Volafortis » 03 Apr 2012, 18:25

madAlric wrote:Huh. I guess I misread that keywords thread.

Yeah, they're still stupidly good, because combined with fetchlands, you end up with the most stable mana base ever conceived for a multicolor deck.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby tamaness » 03 Apr 2012, 19:11

There we go. I found out where I went wrong there.
THE RULES wrote:305.8. Any land with the supertype “basic” is a basic land. Any land that doesn’t have this supertype is
a nonbasic land, even if it has a basic land type.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Elomin Sha » 03 Apr 2012, 23:42

But I want to use my Bump Wheel Storm Crow Death Squadron deck!
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Ninety-Three » 04 Apr 2012, 09:31

What determines who controls a creature if two players put Mind Control type effects on it?
What about if one player uses Mind Control, or an effect that says "You control this creature", and then the other player uses a "Gain control of target creature" effect?

What happens if an aura becomes a creature (say via Memnarch-Tezzeret)? To ask more specific questions: Does it remain attached to its enchanted creature, what happens when it becomes unattached, and can it engage in the normal creature activities like attacking and blocking?

Also, some Commander stuff. I left MTG sometime around Kamigawa and only got back recently, so the Commander format is strange and confusing to me. I have a few questions.

What sets are playable in Commander? Is it Modern, Legacy, something else?

Regarding the rule that a commander costs 2 more to cast from the command zone each time it's been cast before, can effects that reduce the cost of creatures reduce this cost?

Does an ability like "Tap: Add any colour of mana to your mana pool" contribute anything to a card's colour identity?

I know that a dead commander is returned to the Command Zone, but do they stay dead long enough to use abilities that target a card in a graveyard, or is it a state-based effect?
Additionally, does the commander getting returned count as a triggered ability, so that it can be countered by something like Stifle? If so, will the commander end up stuck in the grave indefinitely (or at least until the owner draws some graveyard recursion)?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby theDreamer » 04 Apr 2012, 13:30

Regarding many mind control: iirc, last resolved effect wins. Wait for confirmation.

Auras turned into creatures: They become unattached (creatures cannot be attached or equipped), and can do normal creature stuff.

Commander: Commander uses vintage with added restrictions imposed as "assumed house rules" (see deck construction here on the official site)

Effects that reduce mana costs cannot reduce the commander tax. The commander tax also does not affect the cost once it's on the stack, or anything else. You just have to pay it.

"adding any colour" effects add "any colour in your commander's colour identity." They, themselves, do not have any colour associated with them though. (a birds of paradise is green, and only green).

Returning to the command zone after death or being exiled is an optional replacement effect, except when the commander is exiled face down. Then it isn't optional, but is still a replacement effect.

Replacement effects aren't triggered, and the commander never touches the graveyard/exile zone if the player choses to return it to the command zone.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby theDreamer » 04 Apr 2012, 13:35

Also, EDH, now known as Commander, is older than Kamigawa, though not sure by how much, and hwo obscure it was back then.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 04 Apr 2012, 14:46

Just a few notes to add to and confirm what Dreamer said.

Multiple Gain Control Effects
Whether it's an effect like Mind Control or Traitorous Blood, the last one to happen "wins". If one wears off then the next most recent "wins" and the creature immediately changes controller as needed.

Enchantment Creatures
Basically, a creature cannot be "attached" to anything. If an Aura or Equipment (or Fortification) becomes a creature it immediately falls off as a state-based-action, but then it will still be a creature, and is subject to all of the same rules. It will continue to have its original card type in addition to "creature" but for the most part that won't matter.

Commanders in the Command Zone
Any time the Commander would go to your graveyard or the exile zone you may choose to place it in the Command Zone instead. No state based actions or triggers to worry about here.

The age of Commander
EDH can trace its roots back to 1996 but it was pretty different back then. The format wasn't really popularly known by players until after Ravnica's release, and even then I'm not entirely sure. It probably started gaining proper traction in 2008, mostly amongst judges. "Commander" was officially coined in late 2010. All I know for sure is this: It's the most fun I've ever had with Magic.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby theDreamer » 04 Apr 2012, 14:59

SilPho wrote:Commanders in the Command Zone
Any time the Commander would go to your graveyard or the exile zone you may choose to place it in the Command Zone instead. No state based actions or triggers to worry about here.


Except when exiled facedown.

Can't Hinder a commander, then use Praetor's Grasp to let you play it,
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby CompletelyUnsure » 04 Apr 2012, 18:55

So I this is probably a stupid question, but I'm REALLY new to magic. I've been trying to delve into the mystical world of Commander; I'm trying to put together a RGU deck. My question is this: say I have Animar, Soul of Elements (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=236504) already on the field with three counters and I have any old bear in my hand. Is the bear now free to cast, or will I always have to play the one colored mana.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby dackwards d » 04 Apr 2012, 20:12

The second. Animar's ability only removes colourless mana from the cost. He could potentially make colourless artifact creatures free though.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Graham » 04 Apr 2012, 21:54

Yeah, abilities like that can only remove colourless mana. If it could remove coloured mana, it would use the coloured mana symbol in question.

Not a stupid question, I asked the same thing when I started.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 04 Apr 2012, 22:52

theDreamer wrote:
SilPho wrote:Commanders in the Command Zone
Any time the Commander would go to your graveyard or the exile zone you may choose to place it in the Command Zone instead. No state based actions or triggers to worry about here.


Except when exiled facedown.

Can't Hinder a commander, then use Praetor's Grasp to let you play it,

Yes, though playing the Hinder still works fine. It's only the exile part of Praetor's Grasp that doesn't work. (I know you know this, I'm clarifying for anyone else reading this).

903.13. If a card is put into the exile zone face down from anywhere, and a player is allowed to look at that card in exile, the player must immediately do so. If it’s a commander owned by another player, the player that looked at it turns it face up and puts it into the command zone.

This is one of those rare times in Magic that you have to take it on faith that your opponent isn't cheating, lying, or just forgetting.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby dackwards d » 09 Apr 2012, 03:24

If you put a Coalition Flag on a hexproof creature, what happens? I assume it means single target spells automatically fizzle but will it kill multi-target spells as well?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby theDreamer » 09 Apr 2012, 03:26

"If able" the card says.

I'm not able to target your flagbearing hexproof creature, so I don't have to.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Geoff_B » 09 Apr 2012, 03:27

Looks like by putting a Coalition Flag on you force your opponent to target that creature or include that creature in the list of targets. At the very least you're reducing the number of potential targets by one.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 09 Apr 2012, 03:47

If Coalition Flag is enchanting a Hexproof creature then it is likely to render the enchantment completely pointless if you don't have any more flagbearers. Coalition Flag's ability is designed to force opponents to target that creature (or another flagbearer), but if something else prevents that from happening then the ability can't overcome that. If all of your flagbearers are untargetable then an opponent can continue as normal, the spell will not fizzle.

Let's say I have three creatures. A 4/4 with a Flag. A 3/3 with a Flag and Hexproof, and a vanilla 2/2. If my opponent casts Lightning Bolt they are forced to target the 4/4 flagbearer, no matter how much they would rather target a creature they could kill.

If, however, my opponent cast a Fireball with two targets then he could target both the 4/4 flagbearer and the vanilla 2/2. He cannot attempt to target the 3/3 because of Hexproof, no matter how many targets he gives the Fireball.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby JayBlanc » 09 Apr 2012, 08:09

Here's my reading of this...

The Hexproof rule is "the creature can't be the target of spells and abilities your opponents control". So you can only target with spells and abilities you or an ally (in Archenemy for instance) controls. It's not really an exception that you can target your own spells on your own hexproofed creature, rather that the specific rule doesn't prevent it in the first place.

However, the redirection rule is that any redirected spell or effect still comes from the card/creature that originated it. Redirections must still be made onto valid targets. And an effect only fizzles when there are either no valid targets, or a target that was valid is no longer there.

If a you have two creatures with Coalition Flag on them, and one has Hexproof, you can not attempt to redirect onto that creature as it is not a valid target for you to select. You must target the only valid target available, which will be the creature originally targeted. This is the same for all redirection effects, you can not redirect onto a creature with Hexproof unless you own the card the effect comes from.


TLDR: Coalition Flag or any other spell or ability redirection from cards your opponent owns never works on a Hexproof'ed creature, as it is never a valid target. You must select a different valid target instead, and the spell will only fizzle if there are none.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby JayBlanc » 09 Apr 2012, 08:13

However, it now occurs to me that this would logically mean that your opponent can always use redirection effects to target creatures you own with hexproof. Because they're being targeted with effects from cards you control.

This actually seems like a weird thing that needs a clearer ruling than I can think of.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 09 Apr 2012, 08:30

I get the impression that this discussion could quickly get out of hand, we've already strayed from Coalition Flag to Hexproof and redirection effects.

So let's just sum up the original question and if anyone wants anything clarified I'll try to provide actual card examples.


dackwards d wrote:If you put a Coalition Flag on a hexproof creature, what happens? I assume it means single target spells automatically fizzle but will it kill multi-target spells as well?

Coalition Flag on a Hexproof creature isn't going to cause any spells to fizzle. When the opponent is selecting targets the game will try to make them target the flagbearer, but since that cannot happen the game will give up and let the opponent do whatever they actually wanted to do. Since the creature has Hexproof there's not much point putting the Flag on it in the first place (assuming it's the only flagbearer).
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Yaxley » 10 Apr 2012, 11:07

SilPho wrote:A deck with just 20 Bump in the Nights? That's pretty illegal for Magic.

Though funnily enough, if you presented that deck in a tournament you would be instructed to remove all illegal cards and then add enough basic lands of your choice to meet the minimum deck size. So you're probably going to end up with 4 Bumps and 56 basic lands :P

Though it's not likely to actually happen... I hope.

Lord Hosk totally played the 4 Bumps 56 lands deck at PAX East. You can imagine how it went.

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