Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Ninety-Three » 18 Apr 2012, 14:36

I have Michiko Konda out, and my opponent attacks with a 1/1 and a 4/4. They go unblocked, then I cast Candle's Glow. Does my opponent sacrifice one permanent or two?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Avistew » 18 Apr 2012, 17:18

I can't remember exactly which cards were used, but something like this happened:

I cast a blue spell on a card of mine, making it +2/+2. In response my adversary casts a blue spell that makes it -2. In response I use a white spell that gives it protection from the colour of my choice, I pick blue.

What happens? is the card +2/+2, +0/+2 or +0/+0?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby the amativeness » 18 Apr 2012, 18:57

I'd imagine it would work in standard FILO order: card would gain protection from blue, adversary's blue spell would fizzle, your blue spell would fizzle.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 18 Apr 2012, 22:51

Ninety-Three wrote:I have Michiko Konda out, and my opponent attacks with a 1/1 and a 4/4. They go unblocked, then I cast Candle's Glow. Does my opponent sacrifice one permanent or two?

Short Answer: Your choice.
Long Answer: You pick exactly which points of damage to prevent, so you could prevent 3 damage from the 4/4, resulting in two creatures dealing one damage to you, prompting two sacrifices or prevent the 1/1 and two of the 4/4 damage, you still take 2 but they only sacrifice one permanent.

Avistew wrote:I cast a blue spell on a card of mine, making it +2/+2. In response my adversary casts a blue spell that makes it -2. In response I use a white spell that gives it protection from the colour of my choice, I pick blue.

What happens? is the card +2/+2, +0/+2 or +0/+0?

Short Answer: +0/+0.
Long Answer: Protection from Blue will cause both of the remaining blue spells on the stack to be countered on resolution due to lack of a legal target. Protection does not discriminate between players and applies for as long as white spell says, so probably until end of turn.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Avistew » 19 Apr 2012, 01:44

I thought so. In the game we counted his spell as countered but forgot to counter the enchantment, which stayed for the remainder of the game. I realised that and wondered, but didn't voice it and felt bad about it.
He won, thankfully.
I'll have to make sure in the future to keep that in mind when casting protection from a colour.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 19 Apr 2012, 01:59

Also worth remembering that Auras and Equipment fall off at any given time that a creature has protection from it.

This means you can give your opponent's creatures Protection from Artifacts in response to an equipment activation, and then the equipment won't go anywhere, wasting their mana. Or you can do this after they attack with the creature, then the equipment falls off then and there, possibly messing up their attack plans.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Geoff_B » 19 Apr 2012, 02:43

What would happen if you cast protection on red onto a red creature that has a red mana ability? Say a Fiery Hellhound? Would it still be able to use its ability? Would casting prot from red onto a red creature have any other wacky effects?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby the_lone_bard » 19 Apr 2012, 03:27

It would still work since it can't be given protection from itself. While you can protection your own enhantments off your own creatures and so on, and you can't target a creature with prot black with a royal assassin, the Fiery Hellhounds abillity is red, but doesn't target itself at any point, it just sort of, is.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 19 Apr 2012, 03:35

You mean like in the case of Vulshok Refugee? Having Protection from yourself doesn't normally impede general operations, it just means you can't damage, enchant, equip, block or target yourself - None of which is that common.

Fiery Hellhound doesn't target itself with its ability, so that works as normal.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Ninety-Three » 19 Apr 2012, 08:59

I encountered a weird situation in MTGO, and wanted to ask for an explanation.

I have Spikeshot Elder out, and activate its ping ability. In response, my opponent uses Disfigure, which kills it. After Disfigure resolves, the ping resolves, doing zero damage.
Is an Elder in a graveyard always going to be considered as having zero power, or did the ping only do zero damage because it got killed with Disfigure instead of say, Doom Blade?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 19 Apr 2012, 09:34

Short Answer: The 0 damage is indeed because of Disfigure.
Long Answer: When an ability is linked to the characteristic of a card (in this case, the power) and the card is no longer where it should be then the game uses Last Known Information to find out what the value should be. In this case it was 0. The current power of the Elder, as it exists in the graveyard, is irrelevant.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby dackwards d » 19 Apr 2012, 09:45

In EDH format does the commander itself count as one of the non-repeatable cards in the deck? I'm assuming it does, because I can think of several problems that could arise if it doesn't, but I can also think of some exploits if it doesn't. Also I think Brothers Yamazaki is a cool card.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 19 Apr 2012, 09:55

You can't have two of the same card within the entire 100 card deck (excluding basic lands). So you can't have a general and that same legend.

As for Brothers Yamazaki, bear in mind the Commander is a casual format, and many groups allow "House Rules". So if you announce it before hand you'll probably find that people are ok with it as long as it's not part of some hideously broken combo that makes the game not fun.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby dackwards d » 19 Apr 2012, 12:42

If an opponent casts a spell and I attempt to counter it by tapping a Disruptive Pitmage, am I able to wait until that has resolved to do something else, for example if my opponent decides to pay the one mana to still cast the spell can I then attempt another counterspell to stop it or have I left it too late by not adding it to the stack immediately after tapping the mage?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 19 Apr 2012, 13:17

Both players must pass priority before the top-most item on the stack resolves. The game only resolves one item at a time.

So if your opponent opts to pay the 1 mana for the Disruptive Pitmage the game is still going to ask both players if they want to do anything before resolving the next item, the original counter spell, giving you the chance to try something else.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Ninety-Three » 20 Apr 2012, 08:11

A few questions about Grip of Chaos.

With it in play, if I cast a creature, and my opponent casts a counterspell at it, is there a fifty percent chance that the counterspell ends up countering itself, letting my creature resolve?

If the only creature in play is a Frost Titan and my opponent tries to Doom Blade it, will Grip make the Titan's ability trigger a second time, forcing them to pay an additional 4 to resolve their doom blade?

If I cast a spell that says "Up to two targets" (like say, Travel Preparations), am I correct in assuming that if I pick one target, the spell can be retargeted, but if I pick two, it will resolve without any Chaos?

Lastly, what is the official method for reselecting the target of a spell? I'm imagining giving each target a number from one to X, then rolling a die to select the target, but that seems laborious. Is there a better way?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby tamaness » 20 Apr 2012, 09:19

Ninety-Three wrote:A few questions about Grip of Chaos.

With it in play, if I cast a creature, and my opponent casts a counterspell at it, is there a fifty percent chance that the counterspell ends up countering itself, letting my creature resolve?
Aren't targets selected as a spell resolves? If Counterspell is resolving, all of its legal targets are "spells on the stack." Your creature, being the only spell on the stack, would be countered.

Ninety-Three wrote:If the only creature in play is a Frost Titan and my opponent tries to Doom Blade it, will Grip make the Titan's ability trigger a second time, forcing them to pay an additional 4 to resolve their doom blade?
Grip doesn't cause Titan to be targeted a second time. It's changing the target, and in this case, the only legal target is Titan. Doom blade only targets once, and the activated ability only triggers once.

Ninety-Three wrote:If I cast a spell that says "Up to two targets" (like say, Travel Preparations), am I correct in assuming that if I pick one target, the spell can be retargeted, but if I pick two, it will resolve without any Chaos?
That is how Grip reads. "...if it has a single target..."

Ninety-Three wrote:Lastly, what is the official method for reselecting the target of a spell? I'm imagining giving each target a number from one to X, then rolling a die to select the target, but that seems laborious. Is there a better way?
That's the only way that I can think of.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 20 Apr 2012, 11:26

Ninety-Three wrote:A few questions about Grip of Chaos.

With it in play, if I cast a creature, and my opponent casts a counterspell at it, is there a fifty percent chance that the counterspell ends up countering itself, letting my creature resolve?
Rule 114.4: A spell or ability on the stack is an illegal target for itself. So the counterspell can only target the creature spell.

PS: I don't want anyone thinking judges have to know the numbers of the rules, I did have to look that one up to get the wording.

Ninety-Three wrote:If the only creature in play is a Frost Titan and my opponent tries to Doom Blade it, will Grip make the Titan's ability trigger a second time, forcing them to pay an additional 4 to resolve their doom blade?
In that case Frost Titan's triggered ability triggers once because it only becomes targeted once. However, if there was another creature in play and that one was originally targeted, then the Frost Titan's ability will trigger if the Grip changes the target to the Titan. Basically, either method triggers it, but you can't trigger it twice like this.

Ninety-Three wrote:If I cast a spell that says "Up to two targets" (like say, Travel Preparations), am I correct in assuming that if I pick one target, the spell can be retargeted, but if I pick two, it will resolve without any Chaos?
Yes, your assumptions are correct.

Ninety-Three wrote:Lastly, what is the official method for reselecting the target of a spell? I'm imagining giving each target a number from one to X, then rolling a die to select the target, but that seems laborious. Is there a better way?

Offically, whatever is fair and random. To ensure a fair selection you should number each target like you suggested. Grip of Chaos is rarely played in Competitive events so don't be afraid to use simpler methods in casual games as long as everyone agrees.

@madAlric:
Just to clarify a quick point, targets are selected when you announce spells. The spell is on the stack from the moment you announce it, which happens before you select targets, until the moment it finishes resolving (Many players put spells straight into their graveyards, which is fine for shortcuts but that's not technically what happens).

@Anyone reading this:
I realise that sometimes I use a fair bit of Magic terminology, which may seem quite daunting if you don't get it. Don't be afraid to ask for clarification if you're not sure what I mean by resolving vs casting or triggering vs activating.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby tamaness » 20 Apr 2012, 11:36

SilPho wrote:@madAlric:
Just to clarify a quick point, targets are selected when you announce spells. The spell is on the stack from the moment you announce it, which happens before you select targets, until the moment it finishes resolving (Many players put spells straight into their graveyards, which is fine for shortcuts but that's not technically what happens).

Cool, I knew I had something wrong there.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 20 Apr 2012, 11:40

No worries. That's what I'm here for. :D
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Ninety-Three » 20 Apr 2012, 15:28

SilPho wrote:
Ninety-Three wrote:If the only creature in play is a Frost Titan and my opponent tries to Doom Blade it, will Grip make the Titan's ability trigger a second time, forcing them to pay an additional 4 to resolve their doom blade?
In that case Frost Titan's triggered ability triggers once because it only becomes targeted once. However, if there was another creature in play and that one was originally targeted, then the Frost Titan's ability will trigger if the Grip changes the target to the Titan. Basically, either method triggers it, but you can't trigger it twice like this.

So if I had two Frost Titans in play, and the Doom blade got retargeted from one to the other, it would cost an additional 4 to resolve?



I also found another screwy card that I wanted to ask about. It's silver bordered, so I'm not sure there -are- official answers, but I figured I'd ask anyway.

Specifically, I was wondering how Look at Me, I'm R&D affects mana costs. Let's say I choose to make all ones into twos, and have a 1R (one red, one colourless) creature with Tap: Add 1R to your mana pool. How much does it cost to play, and how much mana does it generate for me?

Let's say I make all threes equal to four. If I spend 3R on a Fireball, what happens?

What happens if I have two of them in play, naming "two = three" and "three = four"?

For absolute maximum screwiness, let's say I name "two = three" and have out Krark's Thumb.
I use any "Flip a coin, if you win..." effect. I flip three coins, coming up Heads, Tails and Tails, and choose to ignore one Tails. Have I won the flip?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby psychopez » 20 Apr 2012, 15:36

Oh Unhinged/Unglued, you make me laugh out loud.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 20 Apr 2012, 21:45

Unhinged FAQTIWDAWCC wrote:What numbers are changed by Look at Me, I'm R&D?

All numbers. Every one. Mana cost, numbers in rules text, power, toughness, collector number, date of the legal text (although only for game purposes and not legal ones) -- all of them are changed.

It doesn't say how {X} costs behave, but I'd claim that it only affects actual printed numbers, and that's clearly printed as an X, not a number.

Also, re: the Krark's Thumb thing... I'd allow it, if you were playing with me. But I'd say that if you did it as you described, then you both won and lost the coin flip, and the exact behaviour from there would depend on how the coin-flip effect was worded. The Mana Screw for instance, would give you your mana, but the Goblin Bangchuckers would deal damage to both the target and themselves. But that's entirely based around what I'd consider the most entertaining.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 20 Apr 2012, 23:53

Ninety-Three wrote:
SilPho wrote:
Ninety-Three wrote:If the only creature in play is a Frost Titan and my opponent tries to Doom Blade it, will Grip make the Titan's ability trigger a second time, forcing them to pay an additional 4 to resolve their doom blade?
In that case Frost Titan's triggered ability triggers once because it only becomes targeted once. However, if there was another creature in play and that one was originally targeted, then the Frost Titan's ability will trigger if the Grip changes the target to the Titan. Basically, either method triggers it, but you can't trigger it twice like this.

So if I had two Frost Titans in play, and the Doom blade got retargeted from one to the other, it would cost an additional 4 to resolve?

Yes, 2 for each Titan. Only paying for one Titan wouldn't stop the other from countering the spell.

Ninety-Three wrote:I also found another screwy card that I wanted to ask about. It's silver bordered, so I'm not sure there -are- official answers, but I figured I'd ask anyway.

Correct, as in there aren't any official answers. House rules apply more than "real" rules when it comes to silver-bordered-land.

That said, this is my UNOFFICIAL take on the scenarios posted above:
1) A 2R creature with "Tap: Add 2R to your mana pool"
2) Fireball would be unaffected.
3) Two Look at Me's still don't affect Fireball.
4) (Re: Krark's Thumb) I think phlip makes some great points here, by having two answers to the result of the coin flip we effectively have a quantum state of both winning and losing. The answers to the question "Did you win?" are not mutually exclusive in this case so I'd say "Yes you have won, but you have also lost, so respond accordingly".


For future referene, I'm not adverse to answering speculative silver-bordered-card questions, but it's not the main aim of this thread.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Robert Merlow » 21 Apr 2012, 18:27

I have a question concerning the Miracle Mechanic. If you reveal the miracle card as the first card you draw, does the Miracle cost apply to the whole turn, or just the phase in which you drew the card?

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