Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

[SilPho]

From the unreleased FAQ:

702.91a Miracle is a static ability linked to a triggered ability (see rule 603.10). "Miracle [cost]" means "You may reveal this card from your hand as you draw it if it's the first card you've drawn this turn. When you reveal this card this way, you may cast it by paying [cost] rather than its mana cost."

The window of opportunity is very small, you must cast the card before it reaches your hand. As soon as it touches the other cards in your hand it is too late. This is perhaps a little less clear if it's the only card you have at that point, but you still need to cast it as you are drawing it.

Some players may Sylvan Library, which also affects draws in a very strange way. Miracles do not fall in to any of the traps that Sylvan Library presents. I think a lot of people will misunderstand Miracles, but the mechanic has actually been very well designed and I don't think it should cause any problems.

[Geoff_B]

So Miracle cards do seem to me to be down to physically how you draw the card. You have to draw it and look at it yourself without showing your opponent and without bringing the hand holding it to meet the hand holding the rest of your cards. And I for one tend to draw, put it with the others and then notice what it is.

It sounds great on paper (hugely discounted mana costs) but in practice it seems a bit flaky depending on the player.

[phlip]

A small rules clarification about AVR while reading through the FAQ, that I'm surprised isn't answered there...

About Dread Slaver... it's not in Gatherer yet, so here:

Dread Slaver (3BB)
Creature - Zombie Horror (3/5)
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Dread Slaver this turn dies, return it to the battlefield under your control. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.

Now, the FAQ does say:

The card will return to the battlefield under your control only if it's still in the graveyard when the ability resolves. If it's not (perhaps because an ability like undying has already returned it to the battlefield), nothing happens.

I imagine that if Undying is involved, they'll both trigger simultaneously, and AP/NAP will apply? So (in a 2-player game), if an opponent's creature with Undying that's been dealt damage by Dread Slaver dies, if it's my turn then they'll get the creature back with a +1/+1 counter, but if it's their turn, I'll get it (sans +1/+1 counters)? Is that right? And if I somehow kill my own creature with Dread Slaver, I get to choose which happens?

[tamaness]

Doesn't the word "dies" mean "moved to the graveyard from the battlefield?" If so, then AP/NAP allows Undying to trigger first, so Slaver's ability fizzles there.

I hope I've got that right.

[SilPho]

@phlip
APNAP does apply in that situation since two triggered abilities are waiting to be put on to the stack at the same time. But when more than one trigger is controlled by the same player they get to choose the order they put their own triggers on to the stack.

Whose turn it is makes a big difference when undying (or other "dies" triggers) are involved.

@madAlric
Dies is shorthand for "is put into a graveyard from the battlefield" but undying has very similar wording, "When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield". They are very similar things, but the word "dies" only makes sense when talking about creatures.

[Ninety-Three]

A few questions about Fist of Suns.

If I use it to cast something with Sunburst, will it enter with 5 counters (even if it has CMC less than 5)?

Will it activate the "If {U} was spent to cast this..." effects from some Ravnica or Lorwyn cards like Ribbons of Night?

Can you combine it with a "Spells cost {B} less" effect like Nekrataal Avatar to only pay {G}{R}{U}{W} for things?

Does it work with Kicker or Buyback?

In a game of Commander, can I use it to play my General? If so, do I still need to pay the extra 2 mana per-death of the General?

And lastly, an unrelated question. If a card somehow had both Buyback and Flashback (via Snapcaster Mage on a buyback card, perhaps), would you be able to pay the flashback and buyback costs to cast it and put it back into your hand, or would doing so just result in spending an excessive amount of mana to cast and then exile it?

[SilPho]

A good rule of thumb to remember with Fist of Suns is that it basically gives you an alternate mana cost that you can almost imagine as being printed on the card itself.

This means:

1) Yes, Sunburst cards get five counters, regardless of the original CMC.
2) Yes, it will count as paying any colour for effects such as Ribbons of Night
3) Yes, you can reduce the cost with effects that reduce coloured costs.
4) Yes, you can kick or buyback these spells as long as you pay the extra costs for those abilities.
5) You can use it to cast the general, but you still need to pay the additional {2} for each prior casting.


As for the other question:
Short Answer: Flashback wins, the card is exiled.
Very Long Answer: We have two replacement effects here, so before the card leaves the stack we have to work out where it's going to go. The default is, of course, to the graveyard. We need to apply one of the effects first, then see if any of the remaining effects would still apply; when none of them do, we can carry out the action.

Buyback replaces going to the graveyard with going to the hand. Flashback replaces going anywhere with going to exile. If we apply Buyback first then Flashback still wants to replace it because it's not yet going to exile, so Flashback still has to be applied, so the card is exiled. If we apply Flashback first then Buyback no longer cares because it wouldn't be going to the graveyard, so the card is exiled.

[Ninety-Three]

A good rule of thumb to remember with Fist of Suns is that it basically gives you an alternate mana cost that you can almost imagine as being printed on the card itself.

Does that mean that "Spells cost an additional 1 to play" effects will force you to pay 1{B}{G}{R}{U}{W}?

Also, how does the flipping on Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant work? Specifically, if I cast him while at 30 life, does my opponent get a chance to respond with a kill spell before he's flipped?

[SilPho]

A good rule of thumb to remember with Fist of Suns is that it basically gives you an alternate mana cost that you can almost imagine as being printed on the card itself.

Does that mean that "Spells cost an additional 1 to play" effects will force you to pay 1{B}{G}{R}{U}{W}?

Yes, Fist of the Suns only replaces the mana cost, not the whole thing. The mana cost of a card never changes, even if you end up paying something else for a spell.

Also, how does the flipping on Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant work? Specifically, if I cast him while at 30 life, does my opponent get a chance to respond with a kill spell before he's flipped?

Short Answer: Yes, he can respond.
Long Answer: Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant has a "state trigger", this isn't quite the same as a triggered ability (or a state-based-action) but when the condition is true it will go on to the stack just like any other triggered ability; both players will have an opportunity to respond. If an opponent casts a kill spell or reduces your life total sufficiently then no flipping will occur.

[Volafortis]

I'm really starting to dislike the "dies" terminology, mainly due to flavor inconsistency with cards like Red Sun's Zenith (or the AVR card Pillar of Flame), where the creature blatantly dies (and is so toasted that it can't possibly be recovered).

It really makes me wish that they'd have delayed trigger on these cards so that the creature would exile after it dies (kind of like the Eldrazi Titans shuffling after they're already put into the graveyard), rather than using a replacement effect to exile it instead of letting it die.

I mean sure, it would enable a few tricks with the stack, but it would make much more sense flavor-wise, and Wizards doesn't ever seem to make a habit of printing instant speed reanimate spells.

[SilPho]

I see what you're saying, but I think the idea behind these burnt-to-a-crisp style spells is that the creature has been disintegrated by the flames, and there is no possible corpse to speak of.

The reason the Eldrazi are triggered abilities rather than replacement effects is because they shuffle the entire graveyard in instead of just themselves. This could work as a replacement effect, but having a chance to react to that is more important.

Magic is pretty much riddled with flavour problems, Planeswalkers don't actually "die" when they lose their loyalty but they still go to the graveyard because there isn't really anywhere else for the card. Magic just has to make a lot of flavour sacrifices for the sake of gameplay.

[Volafortis]

My main problem comes in with Morbid. Burning something to the point of no return should certainly trigger morbid, but mechanically, it doesn't.

[psychopez]

Looking through the full spoiler list for Avacyn Restored for things to upgrade my Undead Alchemist deck, and I have this question.

Say I have Shriekgeist and Diregraf Captain down. What happens when I use Ghoulflesh on the Shriekgeist?

Ghoulflesh
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature.
Enchanted creature gets -1/-1 and is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types.

Here, my gut says the -1/-1 turns the Geist to a 0/0 black zombie spirit, and before it would get the +1/+1 from the Captain it dies due to 0 toughness.

[SilPho]

Short Answer: The Shriekgeist lives as a 1/1 Zombie
Long Answer: Simplest way to explain this is to point out the geist goes straight from being a 1/1 Spirit to being a 1/1 Zombie Spirit. The characteristics of creatures change immediately, all the time, so there's never a point where the +1/+1 isn't applying to your new zombie alongside the -1/-1.

[vxicepickxv]

I mean sure, it would enable a few tricks with the stack, but it would make much more sense flavor-wise, and Wizards doesn't ever seem to make a habit of printing instant speed reanimate spells.

They don't make a habit of it, but they didn't make it impossible. Vedalken orrery gives everything but lands flash, which can make things interesting, to say the least.

[vxicepickxv]

Does a copy of a spell with Storm that wasn't created by Storm also have the Storm abilities?

Example I cast Twincast on Hunting Pack. Does the Twincast copy have storm, or only the Hunting Pack original have storm?

[Geoff_B]

Interesting case just came up in MTGO. I'm sure the game has it right but it was Sengir Vampire vs Sengir Vampire.

So they both die and their triggered ability does nothing as the targets no longer exist?

Also just to be clear, Phantasmal Image copies a creature including any abilities it has, but not equipment or enchantments. That about right?

[vxicepickxv]

Interesting case just came up in MTGO. I'm sure the game has it right but it was Sengir Vampire vs Sengir Vampire.

So they both die and their triggered ability does nothing as the targets no longer exist?

Also just to be clear, Phantasmal Image copies a creature including any abilities it has, but not equipment or enchantments. That about right?

For the Sengir vs Sengir, they both die, which means that the abilties can't resolve because the creatures are dead.

In the first case of copying creatures, it depends on how the abilities are on the creature. If an ability is granted from an outside source(IE Honor of the Pure or Brawn as examples), then it won't copy. Enchantments and equipment will not copy.

[phlip]

Does a copy of a spell with Storm that wasn't created by Storm also have the Storm abilities?

Example I cast Twincast on Hunting Pack. Does the Twincast copy have storm, or only the Hunting Pack original have storm?

Storm activates specifically when you cast the spell. If that spell gets copied, the copy isn't usually cast, but rather created directly on the stack, so it won't trigger. If it's one of the spell-copy effects that specifically says to cast the copy then I think it will trigger? Not certain, though.

[Ninety-Three]

If I control Pandemonium and Confusion in the Ranks and cast a creature, I understand that I get to choose the order in which the abilities get put on the stack. However, if my opponent casts a creature, do they get to choose, or do I?

If I control Hivestone and Dormant Sliver, will I draw a card when I play a non-Sliver creature?

[SilPho]

Does a copy of a spell with Storm that wasn't created by Storm also have the Storm abilities?

Example I cast Twincast on Hunting Pack. Does the Twincast copy have storm, or only the Hunting Pack original have storm?

Short Answer: The copy won't have Storm.
Long Answer: As phlip said, casting and copying are two very different actions. To be technical, the copied spells do "have" the Storm ability, but it doesn't trigger because they were not cast. If Storm did trigger when a copy was made it would be inherently broken because it would immediately generate an infinite loop.
Bonus: If you Twincast a non-storm spell earlier in the turn and then cast a Storm card, it will count the original spell and the Twincast, but not the Twincast copy. You get Storm 2, not Storm 3. And yes, any copies that are properly "cast" will add to this storm count, but usually copies are just put directly on to the stack.

Interesting case just came up in MTGO. I'm sure the game has it right but it was Sengir Vampire vs Sengir Vampire.

So they both die and their triggered ability does nothing as the targets no longer exist?

Short Answer: Correct, the creatures die and never get their counters.
Long Answer: The Vampires die at the same time due to state-based-actions. The triggered abilities do still trigger and wait on the stack as normal, they just don't do anything when they come to resolve.

Also just to be clear, Phantasmal Image copies a creature including any abilities it has, but not equipment or enchantments. That about right?

Correct. Your Phantasmal Image card is basically a photocopy of whatever it copies, except for the extra sacrifice ability.

@Ninety-Three: I haven't forgotten about your questions, I just don't have time to answer them at this time. I will get back to you very shortly.

[SilPho]

Ok, here's the reply for Ninety-Three's questions:


Regarding the orders of triggers:
Short Answer: You always choose the order (because you control the enchantments). But the creature's original controller always chooses both targets (because they control the creature).
Long Answer: Pandemonium and Confusion in the Ranks both have triggered abilities that will be put on to the stack whenever a creature enters the battlefield, and whenever multiple things need to be put onto the battlefield at once, the active player adds all triggers they control and then the non-active player adds theirs. Since you control both cards you will control both triggers and can therefore choose the order regardless of who controls the creature and regardless of whose turn it is.
However: It doesn't matter which order you choose, the original controller of the creature always gets to select the targets of their choice. This is because targets are chosen when the ability is put on to the stack, not when it resolves, which means they are still the controller at this time. If you carry out the exchange first then you may end up with a creature you control that is about to deal damage to you or your creatures and there's nothing you can do about it.

(Took me several attempts to draft a reply that made sense without going over the top on detail, though I'm still not convinced it makes perfect sense so please ask if I've left anything out).


Regarding Slivers:
Short Answer: Yes, you draw a card.
Long Answer: Creatures determine their state of existence on the battlefield before they actually arrive. In this case they won't arrive as normal and then change in to slivers, they will enter the battlefield as Slivers with the draw ability, so you will draw a card.

[Lemegeton]

can you please explain how to use flameblast dragons ability. was playing on MTGO and drew him. when attacking it prompted to place abilities on stack. i clicked on the card and selected target. at next step it said pay mana to cast so i tapped 2 mountains and 2 swamps and clicked ok but then it showed X=0 and the damage was not dealt out.
what did i do wrong

[Lord Hosk]

(Question 1)
We were 20/20

I had a Goldnight Commander is on the battlefield by itself.

He played Devout Chaplain and a Geist Trappers and soul bound them, the passed the turn.

Tap 1R 3 - Havengul Vampire is played(3/3), GNC (3/3)
Tap 1R 2 - Thatcher Revolt is played, HV (6/6), GNC (6/6), Three Red 6/6 Humans With Haste come in.

Combat GNC (6/6) Swing, Human (6/6) Swing, Human (6/6) Swing, Human (6/6) Swing.

Devout Chaplin blocks GNC and dies, Geist Trappers block one human and die. 12 damage to player

End step Humans go bye bye

Left on my battlefield Goldnight Commander (2/2) (tapped), Havengul Vampire (7/7) untapped and can block. Im at 20 hes at 8.

Is everything correct there? Thats how I played it thats how the stupefied guy took it.

(question 2)
In a practice sealed construction I did with my booster I drew 3 Seraph Sanctuarys.

Turn one Sanctuary (21 life)
(pass)
Turn two Sanctuary (22 life)
(pass)
Turn three Sanctuary (23 life)
(tap three play Angel's Tomb, pass)
Turn four ,Island, tap, wingcrafter Tomb becomes 3/3 angel W/Flying (life 26)?
Or would the tomb transformation not count to the sanctuary ability.

Question 3
Champion of Lambholt is on the battlefield as say a 1/1
If I play Thatcher Revolt does that make her a 4/4 and she stays that way or does she loose it when they leave.

[dackwards d]

Q1:
The Goldnight Commander and Havengul Vampire are both 2/2s. When the three humans entered play from Thatcher's Revolt all creatures you control would get +3/+3, giving you a 5/5 commander, a 5/5 vampire and 3 4/4 human tokens. Blocking a single human with his 3/5 trappers and the Commander with his 2/2 chaplain your opponent would have taken 8 points of damage from the other two humans and the Trappers would have survived. The vampire would get a +1/+1 counter for the Devout Chaplain being squished by the Goldnight Commander and at the the end of the turn it would get a further 3 counters for the three humans being sacrificed.
End result: 8 points of damage total, leaving you with a 2/2 GNC and a 6/6 vampire and him with the 3/5 Geist Trappers still.
Bleh. Big block if text there, I hope it's clear.

Q2:
When the Angel's Tomb becomes an angel it does not count as entering play, as it was already on the battlefield just in a different form. While this means it won't trigger the Seraph Sanctuary it also means it won't be suffering from summoning sickness (unless it was also played that turn).

Q3:
Champion of Lambholt's ability is to get a +1/+1 counter when a creature enters play under your control. These are permanent and will stay for as long as she does, unless something else affects them later.