Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 11 May 2013, 22:19

Yea, I read that too. It's why I mentioned that hosk should have called a judge when the guy offered. That seems harsh, but I can understand why. They want to catch the people who try to do such things after all.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 12 May 2013, 01:52

Agreeing to a draw is allowed as long as no incentive is offered.

Asking someone to concede, draw, or anything else in exchange for cash, boosters, or even a beer is grounds for a DQ. Even saying "I'll give you a booster if we just call this match a draw and get some rest" will get the asker disqualified and probably the opponent too if he goes along with it.

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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Senstaku » 12 May 2013, 06:32

Another question from casual evening magic!

When Tokens are destroyed, do they hit the graveyard, and are the considered valid targets for 'enters the graveyard' triggers?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 12 May 2013, 06:50

Yes, and yes. They do hit they graveyard, and they do trip "dies" a triggers. The token then ceases to exist. In particular, any triggered ability can't bring the token back (say, if you give the token Undying - it does trigger, but then has no effect).
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lord Hosk » 12 May 2013, 20:55

woops wrong thread
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 13 May 2013, 11:19

phlip wrote:Yes, and yes. They do hit they graveyard, and they do trip "dies" a triggers. The token then ceases to exist. In particular, any triggered ability can't bring the token back (say, if you give the token Undying - it does trigger, but then has no effect).
2 Questions: The token leaving the game from the graveyard is a state-based action, correct? Also, state-based actions are simultaneous and immediate, and cannot be stacked, correct?

Scenario: Opponent has 2 1/1 tokens, Creature A and Creature B. His graveyard is empty. I have cast Death's Approach on Creature A and later somehow kill Creature B. From this scenario, I determine this sequence of events.

Creature B enters his graveyard, which makes Creature A a 0/0.
State-based actions are checked.
Creature B leaves the game due to being a token and Creature A enters his graveyard due to having 0 toughness, simultaneously.
State-based actions are checked.
Creature A leaves the game due to being a token and Death's Approach enters my graveyard due to not having a valid target anymore.

If this is correct, then there's no way to save Creature A in this scenario if Creature B dies.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Rootbreaker » 13 May 2013, 11:48

Yes, tokens ceasing to exist when they aren't on the battlefield is a state-based action.
Yes, state-based actions occur simultaneously and can't be responded to. They don't use the stack.

The game checks all state-based actions just before a player would receive priority. If any should occur, they all occur, then state-based actions are checked again until no state-based actions happen during a check.

You have the ordering correct for your scenario, but Creature A won't die in this scenario because Death's Approach only makes creatures smaller for creature CARDS in the graveyard, and tokens are not cards.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 13 May 2013, 12:25

Rootbreaker wrote:Yes, tokens ceasing to exist when they aren't on the battlefield is a state-based action.
Yes, state-based actions occur simultaneously and can't be responded to. They don't use the stack.

The game checks all state-based actions just before a player would receive priority. If any should occur, they all occur, then state-based actions are checked again until no state-based actions happen during a check.

You have the ordering correct for your scenario, but Creature A won't die in this scenario because Death's Approach only makes creatures smaller for creature CARDS in the graveyard, and tokens are not cards.
Ah. Makes sense. :)
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Utilitarian » 14 May 2013, 19:39

When Progenitor Mimic enters as a copy of, say, a white creature, is it:

White
Blue/Green
Blue/Green/White

?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 14 May 2013, 19:50

It'd be a white creature. Based on the wording, it enters the battlefield as a copy of that creature, meaning that any ETB triggers of the chosen creature or any color-based ones will trigger based on the copied creature. It will not be blue/green unless you are copying a blue/green creature OR you don't copy anything when you play it.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby rerout » 15 May 2013, 05:28

I have a couple questions about the legend rule. First, does it apply to planeswalkers? I always assumed it did but I've never seen been in a situation to find out. If it does, does it apply to different versions of the same Planeswalker, like Jace, Memeory Adept and Jace, Architect of Thought. And what about different version of the same creature, could I play both Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind at the same time?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Jenelmo » 15 May 2013, 05:49

IT is two different rules, the legend rule and the planeswalker uniqueness rule.

The planeswalker uniqueness rule says
306.4. If two or more planeswalkers that share a planeswalker type are on the battlefield, all are put into their owners' graveyards as a state-based action. This is called the "planeswalker uniqueness rule."

Planeswalker types is what is listed after the long dash "Planeswalker -- Jace"
So no you cant have more than one Jace of any type on the battlefield at any time.


The Legend rule says:
704.5k If two or more legendary permanents with the same name are on the battlefield, all are put into their owners’ graveyards. This is called the “legend rule.” If only one of those permanents is legendary, this rule doesn’t apply.

This means that you can't have two Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind but you can have Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius as they don't have the same name
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby rerout » 15 May 2013, 06:07

Ah ok. Thanks for such a quick reply. I'm still pretty new to Magic, I've only been playing a couple months and everything I know is just from watching LRR's drafts.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Skittles16 » 15 May 2013, 08:14

Cascading into fuse cards lets you cast both or still just one but you can choose either?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Drecon » 15 May 2013, 08:38

Nope. Can't fuse it.

The fuse ability reads "from your hand". When cascading into it you're not casting it from your hand and thus you can't fuse it.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ArchieO » 15 May 2013, 08:52

What is the interaction of fuse cards and protection, for example I want to turn and burn Lavinia of the Tenth (who has pro-Red), will the fused card target her or would I only be able to cast turn (the blue half) on her unfused?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 15 May 2013, 09:34

When they're fused, they're considered both colors, meaning it couldn't target Lavinia of the Tenth if it's fused. I believe if you only cast one half, then the spell will only be that color. So you could still turn her, but you couldn't turn and burn her.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Skittles16 » 15 May 2013, 12:04

Can you use Council of the Absolute to reduce both sides of a fuse card or can you only call one side. If so does it reduce BOTH sides by 2? Do cards like Ruby Medallion reduce the cost of fuse spells like Catch and Release by 2 colourless mana?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Rootbreaker » 15 May 2013, 12:52

When council of the absolute enters the battlefield, you can name one side of a fuse card, not both. It reduces the total cost by 2 if you cast the named half, or if you fuse it, but not if you cast the other side.

When you're fusing the spell, you're casting one spell with a combined converted mana cost, but two mana costs. The mana costs are the relevant part when you cast the spell. The mana costs of Catch and Release are 1UR and 4RW, so I think you reduce both costs by 1 with the medallion. This is the opposite of my intuition, but seems to be what the rules and FAQ are saying.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby tamaness » 15 May 2013, 18:43

Rootbreaker wrote:When council of the absolute enters the battlefield, you can name one side of a fuse card, not both. It reduces the total cost by 2 if you cast the named half, or if you fuse it, but not if you cast the other side.


I had to look that up to be sure, because I remembered it as being the exact opposite. Looks like you're absolutely right.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Rootbreaker » 16 May 2013, 06:48

Yeah, it used to be the opposite. They changed the rule in the most recent update.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ZePancakes » 19 May 2013, 03:29

Can someone explain to me why my opponent could cast a ciphered Call of the Nightwing when I had a Council of the Absolute out naming Call of the Nightwing?

To clarify, this is the copy of CotN done through combat and it was on modo.

I don't see any text saying that "Your opponents can't cast cards with the chosen name from their hand" just "Your opponents can't cast cards with the chosen name."
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 19 May 2013, 03:34

If I understand things correctly, it's because it says
Your opponents can't cast cards with the chosen name.
and a copy isn't a card.

A ruling on the Gatherer page for Meddling Mage mentions something similar
Some cards (such as Isochron Scepter, for example) let you cast a copy of a card. A copy of a card isn't actually a card, so Meddling Mage can't stop this.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ZePancakes » 19 May 2013, 03:37

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Sucks though.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lord Hosk » 23 May 2013, 08:36

For a slivers "ability" to activate do there have to be multiple on the board or would LRR's spoiled "bonescythe sliver" come into play as a 2/2 double striker if it was the only creature on the board?
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