Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 08 Jun 2013, 17:42

That might have been me. I mentioned it in another thread. Or, it might have been one of the people I was discussing it with at the time (I believe it was discussed on the judge IRC channel), about 6 years ago.

The basic idea was you cast some searching spell, with a Panglacial Wurm in your library, then you cast it, and while casting it, you use a mana ability that put a creature into your library (I can't remember the details of this part*), and move a token Panglacial Wurm (that you already had) into your library, where you find it while continuing to search, and cast it as well.

As noted, there's been a bunch of clarifications since, so I don't believe it works any longer.

*EDIT: I think I remember the middle bit. If your Token Panglacial Wurm is a sliver, and you have Pulmonic Sliver out, you can sac it to Ashnod's Alter, putting it on top of your library as a mana ability. Or something similar.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby nicholasmc1 » 27 Jun 2013, 20:39

Question:
Can I "Redirect" a "Boundless Realms"
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Utilitarian » 27 Jun 2013, 20:46

nicholasmc1 wrote:Question:
Can I "Redirect" a "Boundless Realms"

No. This spell does not target. If the spell does not have the word "target" in it, chances are you cannot use Redirect on it
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby nicholasmc1 » 27 Jun 2013, 20:53

Utilitarian wrote:
nicholasmc1 wrote:Question:
Can I "Redirect" a "Boundless Realms"

No. This spell does not target. If the spell does not have the word "target" in it, chances are you cannot use Redirect on it

Thats what I thought, cheers.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lemegeton » 10 Jul 2013, 05:24

yo judges.
the rulings on a corpsejack menace state "If a creature you control would enter the battlefield with a number of +1/+1 counters on it, it enters with twice that many instead."

so what would happen if i play savage summoning before the menace. the double counter effect on the menace is a replacement effect and not a trigger that goes on the stack and resolves. do i get a 5/5 or a 6/6 here???
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 10 Jul 2013, 06:48

Corpsejack Menace's ability only matters while it's on the battlefield... "enters with counters" effects apply as it's entering the battlefield, which means it's not on the battlefield yet. The doubling doesn't apply, and you'll get a 5/5.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lemegeton » 10 Jul 2013, 06:56

yeah thats what i suspected. was just curious
thanks
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 11 Jul 2013, 23:25

While I think I know the answer, I'd like to be sure before the end of the night. If, during my end step when I have to discard, can I Think Twice in response, draw a card, and basically skip my discard phase (I think it might be the cleanup phase, but not sure)? I'm guessing no, but I'm not certain.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lemegeton » 12 Jul 2013, 01:19

nope. you have to discard in your cleanup step if hold more than 7 cards and the rule is

514.3. Normally, no player receives priority during the cleanup step, so no spells can be cast and no abilities can be activated. However, this rule is subject to the following exception:
514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger "at the beginning of the next cleanup step"). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins.


so even if you managed somehow to play the think twice, the cleanup setup just repeats from beginning and you still have to discard.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 12 Jul 2013, 04:29

I really want to make a set filled entirely with "surprise rules nonsense" cards. No idea what would be in it, except there'd be one card that's like "4U Enchantment: whenever you discard a card, draw a card". Sounds really nice, especially against decks with hand attack or alongside loot effects. Except then you go to Cleanup with more than 7 cards in hand, and lose the game - because you keep discarding to hand size, drawing from triggers, and repeating the Cleanup step, until you're drawing from an empty library.

Other ideas are cards that behave wrongly with the layers, like "creatures with power 3 or less have flying" - it would work off the base stats, and pumping/shrinking a creature wouldn't cause it to lose or gain flying, because of the layer order.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lord Hosk » 12 Jul 2013, 04:34

Alpha Authority and Madcap Skills on a creature, Unblockable?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ZePancakes » 12 Jul 2013, 04:42

Yep.

Both criteria must be fulfilled for a block to occur and that ain't gonna happen.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 12 Jul 2013, 12:26

From what I've read, that's right. However I've also heard it comes down to a timestamp effect and only the latest one applies. I believe this was from my judge during a prerelease, but I'm not sure.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 12 Jul 2013, 12:46

phlip wrote:"creatures with power 3 or less have flying" - it would work off the base stats, and pumping/shrinking a creature wouldn't cause it to lose or gain flying, because of the layer order.

That's.... hmm, that would explain why they've never done cards like that before. It feels like it shouldn't work but I'm having a tough time thinking of why it wouldn't, so I guess you're right :) (This is why making Magic is a tough job)


Lord Hosk wrote:Alpha Authority and Madcap Skills on a creature, Unblockable?

Simply put: Yes, unblockable.

Both Alpha Authority and Madcap Skills place restrictions on the creature's potential to be blocked, and you can never violate a restriction like this. (You can, in some cases, violate blocking requirements, but these are slightly different things)
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby nubrain » 12 Jul 2013, 19:52

Okay I think I know the answer to this but a friend and I have decided to try our hands at commander. We've been going over the rules seem to have the basics down however we have few legendary creatures to pick from and her best choice was Obzedat, Ghost Council which leads to the question on how that card would work. i know exile effects normally cause a commander to go back to the command zone but would it in that case since it's more of a blink than anything else. would it be a situation to keep form having to recast it each turn you have to choose not to use the exile ability.

Also my only legendary I have in my collection is Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger and while I know how to build a deck around this card I'm not sure I should because I'm pretty sure that if I resolve him the game stops being fun. I'd rather not buy any cards until I know if I even like commander so how strict is the legendary creature= commander thing? I think it probably doesn't matter just playing with my friend but I don't know if that would drastically change up the game or not.

Advice would be appreciated.

thanks
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Volafortis » 12 Jul 2013, 23:37

Commander is a casual format, and while the rules state that your Commander needs to be legendary, your playgroup can really allow whatever it wants. I know lots of players allow he Nephilim as commanders, even though they aren't legendary.

Again, with the "exile the commander" thing; the rules aren't maintained by Wizards, most playgroups I know allow things like Commander blinking to work.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 13 Jul 2013, 00:22

Whenever a commander is about to be put into your graveyard or the exile zone (for however long) it's owner may choose for it to go to the Command zone instead.

This means that if someone blinks your Commander, it's up to you whether it comes back to the battlefield or remains in the Command zone.


Now, strictly speaking all Commanders are supposed to be legendary, mostly because of the flavour behind there only being one of them. But, since it's played mostly for fun, I'm sure it will be ok if you mention it to your friend. Also, you may have fun using Vorinclex if you give it a shot. If you've got the cards, give it a try :)
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Myrph » 13 Jul 2013, 17:41

So here's a question that came up in the prerelease I attended, what exactly would happen if you used Clone on a Mutavault that had been turned into a creature? Would it turn into a land or would it cease to exist at the end of turn?

Likewise with something like Haunted Plate Mail.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lurkon » 13 Jul 2013, 17:46

Clone would be a 2/2 Creature with all creature types. Since it didn't use Mutavault's ability to become a creature it will remain a creature at end of turn.

I believe it would also be a land, though I'm not certain.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AzureAngel17 » 13 Jul 2013, 18:17

Just want to triple check on something: if a creature is hit with Pacifism, if it later becomes Hexproof (in this case due to Ranger's Guile), does the Pacifism fall off?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 13 Jul 2013, 19:09

If you clone an animated Mutavault, you get an unanimated Mutavault. It would be just a land, but it can be activated to become a creature. Copy effects always copy the base properties of the card - ie what's actually printed on the card, the only effects that change its copyable characteristics are other copy effects (that is, a copy of a copy is a copy of the thing it copied).

If you give an enchanted creature Hexproof (or Shroud), the enchantment does not fall off. "Targeting" and "enchanting" are separate actions that happen at different times - it's targeting the creature while it's on the stack, but enchanting it while it's on the battlefield. There is some overlap - eg a card like Runner's Bane has both a targeting restriction and an enchantment restriction (since the same line of rules text does both), so if you make the target creature huge in response to Runner's Bane, then it'll be countered for illegal target, but if you make it huge after it resolves, it'll fall off for being an illegal enchantment, and these are different rules. Another overlap is protection effects, as protection specifically prevents both targeting and enchanting (also equipping, blocking, and dealing damage)... while Hexproof only prevents targeting. One interesting effect of this is that if you put an Aura onto the battlefield directly, without casting it, then you can attach it to a Hexproof or Shroud creature, since you skip the whole "targeting" step.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 13 Jul 2013, 22:13

This is another one I'm fairly certain on, but figure it's best to ask. When you have multiple creatures enter the battlefield at the same time, it triggers 'whenever a creature enters the battlefield' effects for each one separately correct?

I ask because I think I've found the a great combo for my token lifegain deck. Trostani into Archangel of Thune, then play a lingering souls with flashback. Due to the way the triggers would work out, the first two souls would enter, triggering Trostani twice. The first Trostani trigger would happen, giving me a life and triggering Archangel, which then resolves to put +1/+1 counters on all of my creatures. I then gain two life due to the increased toughness of the other spirit, everything will get another +1/+1 counter, and I can do it all again. The end result being gaining 6 life, getting 4 +1/+1 counters on all of my creatures, and getting 2 5/5 spirits and 2 3/3 spirits if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 14 Jul 2013, 00:23

AzureAngel17 wrote:Just want to triple check on something: if a creature is hit with Pacifism, if it later becomes Hexproof (in this case due to Ranger's Guile), does the Pacifism fall off?

phlip's answer was correct. I just wanted to add that there are some Auras that actually granted the enchanted permanent Shroud. So it would be a little pointless if the Auras fell off thanks to Shroud :P


Kapol wrote:Trostani into Archangel of Thune, then play a lingering souls with flashback

Assuming Trostani and the Archangel of Thune are both on the battlefield already when Lingering Souls resolves your breakdown is correct. Below is the process step by step for anyone playing along at home:

Lingering Souls is cast
Two Spirits arrive: Trostani triggers twice.
First Trostani trigger resolves: Gain one life. Archangel triggers.
Archangel trigger resolves: 4 creatures get +1/+1 counters
Second Trostani trigger resolves: Gain two life this time. Archangel triggers.
Archangel trigger resolves: 4 creatures get +1/+1 counters
Lingering Souls cast again, using flashback.
Two Spirits arrive: Trostani triggers twice.
First Trostani trigger resolves: Gain one life. Archangel triggers.
Archangel trigger resolves: 6 creatures get +1/+1 counters
Second Trostani trigger resolves: Gain two life this time. Archangel triggers.
Archangel trigger resolves: 6 creatures get +1/+1 counters

End result:
Gained 6 life (1+2+1+2)
Trostani, the Archangel and two of the spirits have 4 counters on them.
The other two spirits have two +1/+1 counters.

Sounds complex, but it's not too bad.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ElFuzzy » 14 Jul 2013, 20:08

K, so this was bothering me earlier when I was tossing together a deck. How does Counterflux's overload work? Does it chuck enchantments already on the field or what, as if it only casts spells being cast I can't think of times when you would NEED to overload it. Cept maybe when someone's trying to use a storm deck.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 14 Jul 2013, 20:11

Basically, it's good for overload if you want to counter a bunch of spells on the stack. It won't affect anything already on the board. I think Storm is likely the best use for it.

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