Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 06 Sep 2013, 13:21

Utilitarian wrote:I know Theros isn't out yet but maybe there's an answer to this:

If I have an ability in play that allows me to cast creatures at instant speed (Prophet of Kruphix), can I use the Bestow powers of Enchantment Creatures at instant speed?

My instinct in this situation is No. You will be casting an Aura spell rather than a creature spell. I believe this will fall under the ruling of being an alternate cost rather than an activated ability (which differs it to Bloodrush, it's actually more like Evoke), but I need to be clear in saying that with no official FAQ this is just speculation at this time.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 06 Sep 2013, 13:24

AdmiralMemo wrote:Activating Monstrosity on a creature won't trigger Evolve on other creatures, I assume, since it's not entering the battlefield.


Again, no official word since there's no FAQ, but I can say with about 99% certainty that you're correct there :P Putting counters on a creature won't trigger any "enters the battlefield" abilities, so nor will Monstrosity.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lemegeton » 06 Sep 2013, 14:49

can someone settle a dispute i keep having with a guy at my local FNM

during my main phase i cast a creature and it resolves. when does my opponent next get priority to cast a removal spell on the creature. i.e. does he get priority again during my main phase if i don't play anything else.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Duckay » 06 Sep 2013, 15:05

Unless you play something else he can respond to, I believe the next time he gets priority is when you enter the attack step?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 06 Sep 2013, 15:58

OK, if you have cast the creature, and he's passed priority from the stack, and the creature resolves, you're still in the first Main phase. I believe you have to do nothing and pass priority back, and he gets priority again, and only if he does nothing does the step change to "Begin Combat" step. So he gets priority on the empty stack in your first Main phase after you pass it, before "Begin Combat" starts, and he can cast his instant-speed removal.

I'm getting this from:
MtG Rule 500.2 wrote:A phase or step in which players receive priority ends when the stack is empty and all players pass in succession. Simply having the stack become empty doesn't cause such a phase or step to end; all players have to pass with the stack empty. Because of this, each player gets a chance to add new things to the stack before that phase or step ends.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 06 Sep 2013, 17:11

You are correct Memo.

There is some additional considerations when people use shortcuts though. If you cast a creature, and then say "Combat?" you're offering to skip all of the tedious passing priority back and forward. But then if he wants to respond at a certain point, you have to figure out when you stop, and when he does something, so you'd usually back up, and step through if you were unsure.

Strategically, it's probably in his best interest to wait until the start of combat anyway, otherwise when all is said and done, you're still in the main phase, and could cast another creature, or a sorcery, etc.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 06 Sep 2013, 17:17

The game pretty much never progresses without every player getting priority. So if you don't want a particular spell to resolve, or a particular step to end, before you've had a chance to react, then you'll get that opportunity (aside from the steps where no one gets priority - Untap and the final Cleanup). The whole "active player gets priority and can pass it to non-active player" thing is just so that if both players want to cast a spell at the same time, there's a way of saying who gets to go first (that's why it's called "priority"). Basically the only time you can be tricked into missing out on the ability to cast a spell is if you get priority at the appropriate time, but choose not to cast it and pass, hoping your opponent will do something first... but they pass too, and so you move on. In which case... you already had priority and squandered it, what more do you want?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 06 Sep 2013, 19:29

So, in answering the question, whether it's wise to play something or not depends on the situation, but the opponent does get the priority back during the Main phase after a resolved spell.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lemegeton » 07 Sep 2013, 06:03

but i get priority first after the creature has resolved. so technically he cannot play his removal spell until i declare i am not doing anything more in my main phase, and for example declare moving to combat. he can then say in my main phase doom blade the creature.
what he tends to do is once the creature has resolved he will try and play his spot removal before i have done or said anything else , so technically i have not passed priority yet.

have i got this right ????
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 07 Sep 2013, 07:31

Right, if you want to cast a spell after your creature resolves, and so does your opponent, you have priority, so you'd get to cast yours first. If your opponent wants to cast a kill spell on your creature, their earliest opportunity is either (a) after the creature resolves, you decide you don't want to cast a followup spell, and pass priority, or (b) after the creature resolves, you decide you do want to cast a followup spell, they can cast their kill spell in response to your followup spell.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 07 Sep 2013, 13:19

The following post is a little technical, and mainly applies to competitive play, feel free to ignore it.

It's true that you haven't passed priority, but it has put you in the position in which you can sort of choose what happens next. You can tel your opponent that you wish to do something else first or you can let them cast their spell. Your opponent has actually given you additional information here that can be used to your advantage.

If you do play something else first then the rules do not force your opponent to do what he originally said he was going to do, but if he does request to do something (which requires you to pass priority) then he is obliged to follow through. This effectively stops what some call "Jedi Mind Tricks", that is to say: You can't request priority and then do nothing with it in order to get your opponent to end the current step when they may not have wished to. (Magic Tournament Rules, Section 4.2).

So, in your example, Lemegeton, when he announces his spot removal spell you can choose to pass priority straight away, at which point he must follow through. Or you could choose to cast another creature or activate an ability first (before his spell is even cast), in this case he is allowed to change his mind about the kill spell.

(I hope that made sense, and was at least slightly helpful)
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lemegeton » 07 Sep 2013, 16:10

thanks guys that helps clear things up
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 08 Sep 2013, 21:37

This may need to wait for the Theros rules to officially come out, but I'll ask anyway.

Boon Satyr has flash. It also has Bestow. Can you use the Bestow ability at instant speed due to this? If so, nice combat trick.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 08 Sep 2013, 21:39

From what I've been reading, yes. Bestow is an alternate casting cost, so it still has flash. But as you said, this isn't confirmed until the rulings come out.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 08 Sep 2013, 22:14

For a similar example, creatures with Evoke and Flash can be either evoked or cast normally at Instant speed... it's likely that this won't be any different (but, again, wait for the FAQ).
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 11 Sep 2013, 18:27

I'm sure this is another 'wait until the FAQ,' but does Heroic trigger multiple times if the creature is targeted by the same spell multiple times? Like Common Bond or Martial Glory. I'm guessing no.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lurkon » 11 Sep 2013, 18:34

Kapol wrote:I'm sure this is another 'wait until the FAQ,' but does Heroic trigger multiple times if the creature is targeted by the same spell multiple times? Like Common Bond or Martial Glory. I'm guessing no.

I'm also guessing no. "Whenever you cast a spell that targets."

So it's counting the number of spells targeting it, not the number of targets.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 11 Sep 2013, 18:42

For some reason I thought it was 'whenever x becomes the target of a spell or ability.' I really need to reread cards.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 11 Sep 2013, 19:01

Disclaimer: Words words FAQ etc.

As written, it triggers off casting the spell, not off becoming the target. This can be relevant as, for instance, if you Redirect a spell onto a Heroic creature, my guess is that it won't trigger.

Note that the wording is different... Heroic is templated as "Whenever you cast a spell that targets this", while in the past it's usually been "Whenever this becomes the target of a spell"... the latter would trigger if a spell got Redirected onto it. However, according to the Gatherer rulings for Wild Defiance, even that only triggers once if you cast a spell with multiple targets and target the same creature both times.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 12 Sep 2013, 08:33

OK, here are some questions that doesn't involve Theros for once! :D

I have some questions about planeswalkers.

Indestructible Planeswalkers: How do they work?
Indestructibility can be cast on any permanent, making it indestructible. What does this mean practically, though?

2 key questions:
If an opponent attacks my planeswalker and damage gets through, does my planeswalker lose loyalty counters due to that?
Does having 0 loyalty counters on my planeswalker cause it to be put into the graveyard? (I'm thinking it would be similar to a 0-toughness indestructible creature.)

If both of these are true, then casting Indestructibility on a planeswalker would probably be a stupid idea, and would only protect against things like Dreadbore.

This search also got me searching for other Auras that could enchant planeswalkers. Most are straight-forward, but 2 other ones raise questions, too.

Faith's Fetters: I'm assuming that planeswalkers' abilities are considered "activated abilities" and thus, can't be used, since "Enchanted permanent's activated abilities can't be activated unless they're mana abilities."

Psychic Overload: This taps the permanent and it doesn't untap normally. Can a tapped planeswalker's loyalty abilities be used? Can the opponent attack a tapped planeswalker?

Finally, a question about Gideon and Cipher: Do the ciphered cards stay ciphered after Gideon turns back into a regular planeswalker, and thus, continue to be used if and when he becomes a creature again? (I'm assuming this is the case, and it's similar to the keyrunes, where the cipher sticks, even when it becomes just a regular artifact again.)
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Utilitarian » 12 Sep 2013, 09:18

Planeswalker abilities are indeed activated abilities. S'why you see Pithing Needle in some competitive decks.

I don't believe being tapped or untapped has any bearing on planeswalkers unless they turn into creatures at some point.

I believe Ciphered cards do indeed stay on Gideon in the same way they stay on keyrunes (the same is true of +1/+1 counters, if I'm not mistaken)
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 12 Sep 2013, 09:21

OK, that answers all but the first question, regarding indestructible planeswalkers.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Utilitarian » 12 Sep 2013, 10:56

This seems relevant:

7/1/2013: If damage that can't be prevented is dealt to Gideon, Champion of Justice after his second ability has resolved, that damage will have all applicable results: specifically, the damage is marked on Gideon (since he's a creature) and that damage causes that many loyalty counters to be removed from him (since he's a planeswalker). Even though he has indestructible, if Gideon, Champion of Justice has no loyalty counters on him, he's put into his owner's graveyard as a state-based action.

So, if you were to make a planeswalker Indestructible without also giving them the "prevent all damage" ability, they will still lose Loyalty counters and potentially die, thus the indestructibility alone is really only useful against Dreadbore style effects.

This isn't super relevant but I thought it was funny

1/24/2013: Say you activate Gideon, Champion of Justice's second ability, and then an opponent gains control of him before combat. You may have any of your creatures attack Gideon, Champion of Justice (since he's still a planeswalker). Then Gideon, Champion of Justice may block (since he's a creature). He may block any eligible attacking creature, including one that's attacking him! During combat, he behaves as an attacked planeswalker and/or a blocking creature, as appropriate. For example, he deals combat damage to any creatures he's blocking, but he doesn't deal combat damage to any unblocked creatures that are attacking him.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Tufty » 14 Sep 2013, 09:50

This is probably a straightforward matter, but I really want to make sure I've got it right. Thanks in advance.

If I tap four Mountains to play Awaken the Ancient and then use it to make one of those Mountains a 7/7 red Giant creature with haste... can it actually make use of haste, being already tapped from when it was just a Mountain? I'm guessing not.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 14 Sep 2013, 10:00

No. The main reason haste is relevant is if you use Awaken on a newly put out land. I believe any land that's played then animated has summoning sickness.

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