Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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Firbozz
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Firbozz » 21 Jun 2014, 11:42

The damage would still be there (119.6. Damage marked on a creature remains until the cleanup step, even if that permanent stops being a creature...)
Since the damage was marked on it while it was a creature, it remains there even if it is no longer a creature (until cleanup, when marked damage is removed.)

For the second question, such a card couldn't exist (119.1a Damage can't be dealt to an object that's neither a creature nor a planeswalker.). It wouldjust read "Deal X damage to target planeswalker
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 21 Jun 2014, 18:33

Dealing damage to a thing, and having "damage marked" on that thing are separate events, though they do have confusingly similar names. They're akin to damage to players and life loss, or damage to planeswalkers and removing loyalty counters... dealing damage is a generic thing, that then has some effect that varies depending on what you're dealing damage to.

The difference is that they've never (I believe) printed a card that says "mark X damage on target creature", as opposed to "deal X damage to target creature", but if they did, it would behave similarly to life-loss effects, in that it wouldn't count as dealing damage, wouldn't interact with damage-prevention effects, and the like.

If there was a card that said "mark X damage on target permanent", and you did it on a non-creature permanent, and that permanent later became a creature, it would be damaged, and would potentially die if the damage was lethal. But a card that said "deal X damage to target permanent" wouldn't have the same effect, as the fact that damage leads to marked-damage is a thing that only happens if the target is a creature (just like damage leading to removed loyalty counters is a thing that only happens if the target is a planeswalker). Even if the rule Firbozz quotes that says you can't deal damage to a non-creature non-planeswalker object wasn't there, dealing damage to such an object would still have no effect, as there are no rules in place to make the damage do anything.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Phosphatide » 21 Jun 2014, 20:11

This reminded me of a question I've had for a while now, but always forgot about when opportunities to ask it come up since it's a situation that doesn't come up often. At least I think so, anyway.

A spell/ability causes all creatures to get -1/-1 until end of turn, making a 2/2 creature into a 1/1. Then another spell/ability deals 1 damage to said creature, destroying it. If the order of these effects were done in the other order (1 damage is dealt to the 2/2 creature, then all creatures get -1/-1), will this be a case of being destroyed due to lethal damage marked on a creature, or of being put into the graveyard as a state-based action due to 0 toughness? I figure it's the lethal damage marked on it, but I just want to check.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 22 Jun 2014, 00:31

You're right. It dies due to lethal damage in either case.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ElFuzzy » 22 Jun 2014, 06:28

Does Battlefield Thaumaturge make Curse of the Swine cost UU regardless of how many targets it has?

Gatherer says:

To calculate the total cost of an instant or sorcery spell you’re casting, start with the mana cost (or alternative cost, if applicable), add all cost increases (including additional costs such as those imposed by strive abilities), then subtract all cost reductions (such as the one created by Battlefield Thaumaturge’s first ability).

So for an X spell it would be initially UU, then add the X number then reduce the X number by targets?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 22 Jun 2014, 07:20

Yes. That seems like quite an effective combo. :)

The process of casting a spell more or less follows this process:
Announcing the spel - "I want to cast Curse of the Swine.
Choices and "modes" are chosen - "I will set X to be 3".
Targets are selected - "I will exile these 3 creatures" (So we need to know the value of X by now)
Costs are now determmined, which takes the total cost (including X=3), then any cost increases, then cost decreases such as Battlefield Thaumaturge. So, since we know the total cost (3UU) and the number of targets (3) we can determine the final cost (UU).
Activate Mana abilities (if you haven't already)
Then, finally, Pay costs - Which is when mana is actually removed from your mana pool.

Some of you might recognise the acronym here. For anyone that doesn't, the capitalisation spells out "ACT CAMP", which is a great way to memorise the process of casting spells. It's also pretty much the same for activated abilities too.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ElFuzzy » 22 Jun 2014, 07:23

Sweet, just wanted to verify. I offhandedly mentioned this at school and a bunch of people jumped down my throat about how i was wrong and that would be broken if it were true.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Phosphatide » 22 Jun 2014, 10:58

You can also tell them how Launch the Fleet costs {W} for any number of targets with Battlefield Thaumaturge out.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lord Hosk » 26 Jun 2014, 12:16

If you have Preeminent Captain in play, and attack with it, causing the trigger "Whenever Preeminent Captain attacks, you may put a Soldier creature card from your hand onto the battlefield tapped and attacking." What happens if you throw Akron Legionnaire down as the soldier?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 26 Jun 2014, 12:26

Nothing special really. Abilities that prevent creatures from attacking only prevent them from being declared as attackers. It won't stop creatures that already happen to be attacking from doing so.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lord Hosk » 26 Jun 2014, 12:31

Thats what I thought
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby DuelLadyS » 27 Jun 2014, 06:31

Is Darkest Hour considered a global effect, therefore meaning it would affect cards with protection from black? My fiancé's doing crazy combos again...
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 27 Jun 2014, 06:38

Yep. Protection only prevents: Damage, Enchanting/Equipping, Blocking and Targeting. Darkest Hour does none of those.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Prospero101 » 27 Jun 2014, 09:43

Can I ask my opponent to count the number of cards in his library? Is that open information?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ElFuzzy » 27 Jun 2014, 10:24

Not a judge, but I want to say you can as in DotP cards in hand, graveyard, and library are all shown near a player portrait.

And even still, you can run some math with cards in hand and in graveyard as that is open knowledge.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Phosphatide » 27 Jun 2014, 10:27

You can, but it is considered "derived information" under the tournament rules: http://rules.wizards.com/rulebook.aspx?game=Magic&category=Tournament%20Policy#4545

This means that teeeechnically your opponent can refuse to help, but it would mean that you would be the one that gets to handle the deck and count. Perhaps that is something they don't want to happen. Naturally, if they for whatever reason refuse to let you know how many cards are in the deck, you can always have a judge help out.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby tamaness » 27 Jun 2014, 13:04

Also, if they want to answer your questions about derived information, it's a tournament error to present incorrect derived information (MTR 4.1). So it's in their interest to either avoid the question or count their library. I'd count it, personally, as I want to limit the time I've got my cards in other peoples' hands.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 27 Jun 2014, 14:06

The official Consipiracy video showed Kathleen asking "How many cards do you have?" to several players and they answered. Granted, Conspiracy is never an "official" tournament, but there's an example.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lord Hosk » 27 Jun 2014, 14:53

Am I misunderstanding trample or is this a MTGO glitch.

In one game I had a Stonewise Fortifier down, My opponent had a Monstrous Ill-Tempered Cyclops.

on my part of their first main phase, before combat, I activated the stonewise naming ill-tempered.

They attacked with cyclops, I blocked it with stonewise. I took 4 damage.

My understanding is that you must assign lethal damage before the damage can be assigned further. 2 damage is not lethal damage, nore is 6 or 1000, because all damage is prevented.

If this is not the case, what about indestructible?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Phosphatide » 27 Jun 2014, 15:10

Assigned combat damage is not affected by damage prevention or protection, as you still assign what would be considered as lethal (making damage marked to equal the toughness, or deathtouch, and so forth). Whether or not it actually ends up being lethal does not matter, as it will still be dealt and trample damage continues through.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby WickedBoy6 » 27 Jun 2014, 15:44

Not sure if this was asked, but since this pertains to my God EDH deck, figured I'd ask.

Example: I have Xenagos and Karametra in play, they're the only things in play, so they're at 3 Devotion each: 2 from their own, and 1 from the green the other gives. I play Nobilis of War, 5 hybrid W/R mana. Does it turn on both Gods, or do I have to decide if it's 5 Red or 5 White, so it only turns on one God? I know it doesn't count as 10 devotion, but can it count for either 5 White and 5 Red for different Gods?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lurkon » 27 Jun 2014, 15:46

WickedBoy6 wrote:Not sure if this was asked, but since this pertains to my God EDH deck, figured I'd ask.

Example: I have Xenagos and Karametra in play, they're the only things in play, so they're at 3 Devotion each: 2 from their own, and 1 from the green the other gives. I play Nobilis of War, 5 hybrid W/R mana. Does it turn on both Gods, or do I have to decide if it's 5 Red or 5 White, so it only turns on one God? I know it doesn't count as 10 devotion, but can it count for either 5 White and 5 Red for different Gods?

It turns them both on.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby WickedBoy6 » 27 Jun 2014, 15:59

Yes! So, I just need all 10 Spirit Avatars, and those are my God Activators...except for the one that turns everything into vanilla 1/1s. Who needs THAT in a God deck?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Lord Hosk » 29 Jun 2014, 05:17

When is a creature with lethal damage removed from the game?

Is there a possibility to respond after damage has been assigned?

For example, I had a 3/3 my opponent had a 3/4. I cast setessian tactics on my creature (plus on a couple others) and attacked with my 3/3 my opponent blocked the now 4/4 with his 3/4 and cast titan strength on it.

After combat damage could I have fought to kill the 3/4 now 6/5 too?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 29 Jun 2014, 05:28

Creatures with lethal damage get destroyed as a state-based action - meaning it happens any time a player is about to receive priority.

In your situation, after combat damage happens, state based actions will kill your 3/3 before you have the opportunity to activate its fight ability... and vice-versa, if you activate the ability before combat damage, in the declare blockers step (I'm assuming the creature has vigilance, so you can activate its tap ability even though you've attacked with it), then it will die to the fight damage there before combat damage can happen.

This is exactly the sort of shenanigans you used to be able to get up to when combat damage went on the stack... but that isn't a thing any more, combat damage just happens at the appropriate time, it can't be responded to.
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