Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Utilitarian » 16 Oct 2014, 19:57

If I am at 5, and my opponent is at 5, and I attack with two 5/5s, and my opponent casts Defelecting Palm on one of them, who dies?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ElFuzzy » 16 Oct 2014, 20:16

He does.....? I believe damage resolves before the redirection triggers and he's already taken lethal 5 damage.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 16 Oct 2014, 20:41

Platinum Emperion Question:

As Duckey pointed out, Platinum Emperion changes what happens when you are damaged, but doesn't prevent it. But it wouldn't matter if it did, actually. Undead Alchemist has a replacement ability. It replaces damage with milling before the damage. If the Emperion had an ability similar to Deflecting Palm, and prevented the damage, you could still mill, as when 2 or more replacement abilites try to affect the same thing, the controller gets to choose which applies. So you could could to have the damage turn into milling rather than prevented anyway.

Deflecting Palm Question:

It's a draw. Deflecting Palm is a replacement ability, not a trigger, and doesn't use the stack. Well, the spell does, but the redirection doesn't. It replaces damage dealt to you with prevented damage and damage dealt to the opponent.

Damage is dealt to both players (one in a slightly more round-about fashion) and both players are on 0 the next time state based actions are checked.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Atifexe » 18 Oct 2014, 17:34

Korvys - Actually, the person who the replacement effect affects gets to choose the order of application (Rule 616.1). I learned it as the controller of the abilities get to choose in APNAP order, but apparently that's no longer the way of things.

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616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 18 Oct 2014, 20:18

You are correct. However, if 2 replacement abilities would both turn damage into something else (either nothing, or milling), the second can't apply, as there's no damage to change. So end result is pick one, but I didn't make that clear.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 19 Oct 2014, 00:49

The point is that if there's two replacement effects that want to replace damage, then it's the player being damaged (or the controller of the thing being damaged) that gets to pick which order they're applied... not the controller of the damage source, or the controller of the replacement effects themselves.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 19 Oct 2014, 00:56

Oh, sorry, I said "the controller", but wasn't clear. I meant the controller of the thing, not the controller of the effect, yes.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby slashx24 » 19 Oct 2014, 03:38

The best way to word it is "The player AFFECTED," rather than going with the term "controller". Though to be clear, Platinum Emperion's ability isn't a replacement effect. It's a static ability which changes the game rules.

In this instance, Platinum Emperion and Undead Alchemist don't really interact. Zombies would deal damage, Alchemist's replacement effect would cause the opponent to mill cards equal to the amount of damage that would have been dealt.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby guidance » 26 Oct 2014, 17:07

So question that came up in a game of commander (like always). What happens if I +1 new Sarkhan and target him with Dack's duplicate? Do I have a planeswalker with dethrone?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby tamaness » 26 Oct 2014, 18:53

You have a planeswalker with Dethrone and Haste.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 26 Oct 2014, 19:43

Then, if you're the one controlling both Sarkhan and the Duplicate (as it sounds like you are) then at the end of turn, original-Sarkhan's +1 wears off and he becomes a planeswalker again, and you'll have two Planeswalkers with the same subtype, and one of them will be going away.

This is as distinct from Gideon, who stays a planeswalker when he becomes a creature, so if you Dack's Duplicate your own animated Gideon, then uniqueness rule will apply immediately.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby guidance » 26 Oct 2014, 20:09

And the Duplicate can still use all the planeswalker abilities right?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 26 Oct 2014, 21:46

Correct.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 26 Oct 2014, 22:43

So... He comes in with 4 loyalty, right? In theory, the best thing to do with your duplicated Sarkhan would be to -3 him? +1 would make him a legendary, and then you'd have to sac either him or the original Sarkhan. I can see this as an edge case, but not typical. You can't -6 him since he only comes in at 4. You're going to have to sac him or orginal Sarkhan anyway at EOT when Sarkhan becomes a planeswalker again. So, unless you really need a hasty dethrone dragon, -3 to double-shock seems best to me.

That said, that's only if it's your Sarkhan you're targeting. If you can somehow cast the Duplicate with Flash (Savage Summoning, maybe?) then you could target an opponent's Sarkhan dragon and open up plenty more options.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby slashx24 » 28 Oct 2014, 01:23

He'd come in with 4 loyalty, yeah, so -3 would realistically be the only thing you can do which doesn't result in an immediate sac to SBAs.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby tamaness » 28 Oct 2014, 05:29

I figure, animate your Sarkhan, cast Dack's Duplicate, animate the duplicate, sac the original Sarkhan to SBAs, then get your Dethrone beats on.

But rules-wise, the Duplicate enters as a copy of Sarkhan the Dragonspeaker, has Haste, and Dethrone.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ElFuzzy » 03 Nov 2014, 08:15

Can you attach bestow creatures w/ Bruna?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 03 Nov 2014, 08:59

From the wording, I would read that they can be attached to her only if they are already attached to a different creature on the battlefield. If they are creatures on the battlefield, or if they are in your hand, they are not Auras at that time.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 03 Nov 2014, 15:16

Memo is correct. Bruna only cares about things that are Auras or Aura cards right now, not whether they could be if they truly believed.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby ElFuzzy » 07 Nov 2014, 07:29

So if I have all 34 bestow creatures on Karona and she dies on somebody else's field where do they go? Also in regards to sphere of safety do I still control the enchantments wherever Karona is?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby chetoos » 07 Nov 2014, 09:37

Not a judge, but I think that you would keep the bestow creatures. It makes sense, you still control the auras when the creature they are attached to dies. It's kind of like putting one of the journey bestows on an opponents creature, you keep it then. Plus, no one is going to dispute that you control a pacifism on another person's creature.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Phosphatide » 07 Nov 2014, 12:12

Creatures with bestow that become unattached from a creature become a creature themselves under the bestow creature's controller's side of the battlefield. So long as no other shenanigans happened that caused some of those bestow creatures to become controlled by someone else by the time Karona died, they should all return to your side.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Aaron9797 » 09 Nov 2014, 15:42

if i have titania, protector of argoth and ambush commander out. and someone wraths the battlefield do i get elementals when titania, ambush and my forest die
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 09 Nov 2014, 16:01

Yes. Titania and all your forests will die simultaneously, and they'll all see each other leave and you'll get a bunch of triggers.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 13 Nov 2014, 10:09

If a token gets Undying and doesn't have a +1/+1 counter on it, it still doesn't come back due to SBAs eliminating it once it hits the graveyard, right? I'm assuming the Undying trigger still goes on the stack, but fizzles due to having no target.

Also, if a non-token creature somehow has both Undying and Persist, I'm assuming it just infinitely recycles from the graveyard due to the counters canceling each other out. And even if counters get put on it to prevent one of the two from working, the other still triggers and brings it back right?

If that's true, Undying + Persist = Poor-man's Indestructible, with bonus Dying and ETB triggers if things care about that. I'm thinking some fun could be had with Puppeteer Clique while Mikaeus, the Unhallowed is on the battlefield. Alternatively with Mikaeus, Murderous Redcap becomes the best blocker, with bonus Shocks. Aerie Ouphes just wipes out any opponent's fliers with no draw-back. With a sac outlet, Woodfall Primus becomes a wiper of lands, artifacts, and enchantments.
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