Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 09 Oct 2016, 14:04

I'm not actually sure what "the topic in question" is, since you didn't actually ask a question.

The scenario and outcome you've listed are correct.
Misdirection can't be cast because the spell has 2 targets (2 instances of the word "target" in the rules, not 2 objects that it's targeting).
Angelic Protector's ability triggers because it became the target of a spell. That is to say, it wasn't a target of that spell, and now it is.
If Common Bond targeted the angel and something else, and somehow the other target were moved to the angel as well, it wouldn't trigger again, as it was already a target of that spell, and so cannot become a target of that spell, as that would imply it was not a target before.

An object can either be the target of a spell or not. Transitioning from 'not being a target' to 'being a target' is 'becoming a target'.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SixFootTurkey » 09 Oct 2016, 14:17

114.8c however, specifies that it can 'become a target more than once'- which would seemingly contradict that very statement.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 09 Oct 2016, 14:38

Ah, I see what you mean now.
601.2c say that after you make all your choices each object becomes the target of the spell once, but 114.8c says that if it became the target once, the spell only has one target and Misdirection should be able to to target it.
If we interpret 601.2c a bit differently, and say it becomes the target twice, then Misdirection can't target it (which is correct), but then the ability should trigger twice (incorrect).

I get the feeling that this is more a matter of plain english vs formal rules language. Each of those passages is using a slightly different version of "becomes a target". Possibly different versions of the rules over the years have had a different meaning for that, and something was missed.

I don't have an answer, sorry. You could bring it to the attention of the judges (the judge reddit is probably the best place if you don't have access to Judge Apps), and in the meantime, this is likely to come up very rarely.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SixFootTurkey » 09 Oct 2016, 15:17

Brought it up in the judge IRC - figured I would get a second opinion before tweeting Eli (which they advised). No idea if it's an oversight or just a misinterpretation on my end, but it's an interesting one nonetheless. ^^

Thanks for trying - it is indeed a tough one.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Phi » 10 Oct 2016, 04:05

Question about priority:

Let's say I want to cast Eerie Interlude on my opponent's turn to flicker my creatures and have them return to the battlefield on their end step. When is the last chance, during their turn, I get to do so?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SixFootTurkey » 10 Oct 2016, 11:56

In their post-combat main phase with the stack empty.

Of course they can always respond to the spell or cast something after it resolves.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 10 Oct 2016, 23:41

Strictly by the rules, the order is: in their second main phase, they do whatever they want to do, and then eventually pass priority to you with an empty stack - at this point, if you pass too, the step will be over and you'll move on to the end step.

You cast Eerie Interlude, and you get priority first to respond to it (which you probably won't) and then your opponent gets their chance to respond, and if they don't, the spell resolves and exiles your creature.

Then, your opponent gets priority again (them first as it's their turn), and it's still their main phase, so they can still do sorcery-speed things (eg if they decided not to play a creature to play around a counterspell, but now that you've played Eerie Interlude you can't afford a counter any more, so now they want to play it). If they do nothing and pass priority to you, and you pass back, then you move on to the end step, and you get your creature back.

In practise, the way it works is your opponent says "go" or "pass the turn" or something, and you say specifically something like "in your main phase, Eerie Interlude". Because if you just cast it, then the shortcut is that you're doing it in their end step, in which cases the creatures won't return until your end step.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Phi » 11 Oct 2016, 11:57

Okay, that's good to know. I did it a few times after they said "go" and I said something along the lines of "Wait, on my main phase as you pass priority..." but I wanted to make sure I wasn't getting it wrong.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SixFootTurkey » 12 Oct 2016, 00:21

There is no 'as you pass priority.' If they pass priority and you pass priority, the game either resolves the topmost object on the stack, or - if the stack is empty - moves to the next step/phase.

Magic is a _very_ systematic game that follows a very specific set of timing. To sum it up in a few key points...

> The Active Player gets priority at the start of a step/phase and after something resovles.
> Whenever a player puts a spell/activated ability on the stack, they get priority after.
> If a player passes, and not all players have passed in succession, the next player in turn order receives priority.
> If all players have passed in succession, the topmost object of the stack resolves. If the stack was empty, the game moves to the next step/phase instead.

So, A's main phase. A gets priority first. If they pass priority, and then B passes priority, the game moves to the combat phase. A doesn't get to say 'well if you're not going to do anything, I want to...' They passed priority on an empty stack, they gave up their chance to guarantee the chance to act in that phase. (Now if B takes an action, not everyone has passed in succession, so they'll get another chance to act both before and after that spell resolves.)
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby demiteddybear » 16 Oct 2016, 03:34

I can't seem to find the answer elsewhere. I'm trying to come up with a combo of midnight oil, harmless offering, ghirapur orrerry and fevered visions. Now the wording on midnight oil is "whenever you discard a card lose 1 life". Does that mean you lose a life for every card you discard or you lose 1 life for instance of discarding a card you lose 1 life. For instance if you have discard 4 cards because of 0 had size, or discarding 2 from mind rot?

Oh yes one more, does a Panharmonicon entering the battlefield cause a trigger to trigger twice for things that are affected by artifacts, for instance does a reckless fireweaver already in play deal 2 damage when the Panharmonicon comes into play?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 16 Oct 2016, 05:13

Midnight Oil triggers for each individual card you discard. If you discard 2 cards at once, it will trigger twice, and you'll lose 2 life.

As for Panharmonicon, this is from Gatherer:
If Panharmonicon and an artifact or creature enter the battlefield at the same time, those permanents entering the battlefield will cause triggered abilities to trigger an additional time.
It's not quite the same thing, but it still covers the same idea. So yes, an entering Panharmonicon would trigger Reckless Fireweaver twice.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby chetoos » 21 Oct 2016, 06:31

Question about paying costs: Jarad, Golgari lich lord has you sacrifice 2 lands to return him from your graveyard to your hand, and the Gitrog has you draw cards each time lands enter your graveyard, so I'm wondering if you get 2 cards, because they are separate costs on the card, or 1, because they're put in all at once.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Artirian_Legacy » 21 Oct 2016, 07:41

You get to draw both cards, because each land going to the graveyard triggers the ability. They just trigger simultaneously, like a bunch of death triggers going on the stack after a wrath effect.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 21 Oct 2016, 08:28

That is incorrect. Gitrog specifically says 'Whenever one or more land cards are put into your graveyard.' Both lands are put into the graveyard together. So since the two are going to the graveyard at the same time, it only triggers once.

For evidence of this, here's the ruling from gatherer:

If multiple land cards are put into your graveyard at once, The Gitrog Monster’s last ability triggers only once. This could happen because an effect (such as that of Crawling Sensation’s first ability) put them there from your library at once, or because they were destroyed at the same time (such as two land creatures that were dealt lethal combat damage).
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Artirian_Legacy » 21 Oct 2016, 08:46

I sorry. Next time will keep in mind to fully read all cards involved. Thank you
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Atifexe » 05 Nov 2016, 18:28

Judge! Scenario: In a multiplayer game, I control a Panharmonicon and a Strionic Resonator and cast Sewer Nemesis.

Sewer Nemesis has an "as this enters the battlefield" ability. Can either Panharmonicon or Strionic Resonator interact with this? If so, what are the implications for the linked abilities?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 05 Nov 2016, 18:52

Sewer Nemesis's first ability is not a trigger, but a replacement effect that changes how it enters the battlefield. Neither Panharmonicon nor Strionic Resonator will interact with it.

Sewer Nemesis's third ability is a trigger, so you could Strionic Resonator that, but that interaction isn't particularly complicated.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Atifexe » 05 Nov 2016, 22:15

Thank you for the clarification!

A related question: Panharmonicon and Phyrexian Ingester?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 06 Nov 2016, 16:34

CR wrote:607.3. If, within a pair of linked abilities, one ability refers to a single object as “the exiled card,” “a card exiled with [this card],” or a similar phrase, and the other ability has exiled multiple cards (usually because it was copied), the ability refers to each of the exiled cards. If that ability asks for any information about the exiled card, such as a characteristic or converted mana cost, it gets multiple answers. If these answers are used to determine the value of a variable, the sum of the answers is used. If that ability performs any actions on the exiled card, it performs that action on each exiled card.

If your Phyrexian Ingester imprints two creature cards, then it will get bonuses according to the sums of the exiled creature cards' power and toughness.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Atifexe » 06 Nov 2016, 21:36

That clears it up nicely! Thank you, phlip!
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Booster » 28 Nov 2016, 16:21

I'm at 1 life. My opponent has a summoning sick pinger. I have 2 creatures that let me tap a creature down. Is there anyway to sequence tapping it down where I don't just immediately die? Like can I tap it down during my end step then again during his untap step? (I feel like the answer is no, but it never hurts to check :) )
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 28 Nov 2016, 17:19

Nope.

No one gets priority to do anything during the untap step. Even things that trigger then don't get dealt with until the upkeep step.

They will get priority first, during their upkeep, and can activate it, at which point, you can repsond, but it will not do anything (it will already be tapped).

Even if they don't use it immediately, when you try to do anything on their turn, they will have an untapped, no longer summoning sick creature, and can respond to your activation.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Booster » 28 Nov 2016, 18:00

That's what I thought. Thanks :)
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 04 Dec 2016, 13:52

If you equip an Auriok Glaivemaster with a Skullclamp (or any other equipment that gives it [X]/-1 for that matter), does it die? I don't know if the -1 toughness and +1 toughness affect it at the same time, or if there's a SBA between.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 04 Dec 2016, 14:54

It will not die. Both of the effects apply at the same time, and in the same layer, but in any case, all of the continuous effects are resolved before the toughness is checked to decide if it died.

If it had an ability like "Whenever this creature becomes equipped, put a +1/+1 counter on it", it would die, because it would already be equipped (and 0 toughness) while the counter trigger was on the stack.
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