Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

[chetoos]

That's what I thought, but I didn't want to press the issue. He thought that Kemba had to be equipped for the ability to trigger, but I was like "no, it triggers, and normally I'd get no cats, but I'm doing this in response."

Edit: I just had another question, related to a Mazirek deck that I'd just made: Mycoloth devours a bunch of creatures, and I have death's presence out. Am I able to put the counters from Death's presence onto Mycoloth?

[SixFootTurkey]

Yes.

As Mycoloth is entering, you sacrifice creatures (this is when the triggering event happens, but the triggers aren't put on the stack yet). After the spell has finished resolving, state-based actions are checked. After SBAs, triggered abilities get put on the stack, and at this point Mycoloth is a legal target.

[AdmiralMemo]

Alright, I want to know if I was wrong or MtGO was before I file for compensation.

Relatively early in the game, Omega Lairon cast Clutch of Currents with Awaken on my Kozilek's Sentinel, targeting his Island.
Later in the game, after I have the Sentinel out again, I cast Deceiver of Form.
He's got out his Awakened Island and Kozilek's Pathfinder.
The next turn, I cast Press Into Service, targeting the Support onto my Sentinel and Deceiver, and gaining control of the Awakened Island.

The problem I had happens on my Combat Step.
Deceiver triggers. I reveal a Valakut Invoker. I expect the Awakened Island and the Sentinel to turn into Valakut Invokers with varying amounts of counters on them. (I put the Invoker on the bottom.)

What I end up with on MtGO is:

an 8/8 Deceiver of Form with a +1/+1 counter on it
a 2/3 Valakut Invoker with a +1/+1 counter on it (was the Sentinel)
a 0/0 Valakut Invoker with 3 +1/+1 counters on it that's also an Elemental (was the Island)

Is that last one right? Shouldn't it be a 2/3 Valakut Invoker with 3 +1/+1 counters on it? I wanted to smash in with a 5/6 to kill the Pathfinder, but MtGO insisted it was a 3/3. Thus, I held it back and it ruined the attack I was planning. (I still attacked with the Deceiver.)

If I'm right, I'm filing for compensation. If I'm wrong, let me know what I missed. Is this a "layers" issue perchance?

[korvys]

I had to go double check the rules for Awaken for this.

It turns out, Awaken doesn't just put counters on and animate the land, it puts counters on and animates the land as a 0/0.

This is a power/toughness setting effect, so applies in layer 7b. Copy effect apply in layer 1. The island becomes a copy of the Invoker, and then later the awaken effect animates it (pointless, since it's a creature now) and sets it back to 0/0.

It's a weird interaction, and honestly, I'd have probably gotten it wrong if asked, but yeah, MTGO has it right.

[AdmiralMemo]

Interesting. So that's why it was also an Elemental, too, I take it.

[korvys]

Yep. Despite having quite the busy day, swapping controllers, becoming a copy, etc, somewhere in the list of continuous effects that apply to it is Awaken, which means "Become a creature, be an elemental, be 0/0", and as much of that will apply as possible, at the appropriate place in the layers, even though it originally had to target a land, and it's not a land any more.

Also, despite the slightly paradoxical thing of the animate effect having to happen for the copy effect to happen, and then the copy effect making the animate effect pointless.

[theycallmejokke]

If I use Altered Ego to copy a DFC do I copy both side, and can there for flip it later, or does Altered Ego "only" copy the front?

If I time it correctly when I put a counter on Brain in a Jar can I use it to cast a sorcery at sorta-kinda instant speed? Say on my opponent's turn?

[korvys]

4/8/2016: If you copy a double-faced creature, Altered Ego will be a copy of the face that’s up when Altered Ego enters the battlefield. Because Altered Ego is not a double-faced card, it won’t be able to transform. If an effect instructs you to return it to the battlefield transformed when it leaves the battlefield, it won’t return and will remain in its new zone.

Yes, you cast the spell when the ability from Brain in a Jar resolves, even if that happens at a time when you normally couldn't cast a sorcery.

[theycallmejokke]

Thanks for the quick answer korvys .

[phlip]

That ruling honestly could have been worded better... I faced someone at the prere who thought that it meant that if I have an Altered Ego copying a werewolf, and they cast two spells in a turn, then it would be exiled and not come back.

So, to be clear: there's two separate sentences there.
(a) If it would attempt to transform, it won't, it'll just stay as it is.
(b) If it would attempt to leave the battlefield and return transformed (eg Skin Shedder, or the ORI planeswalkers) then it won't return, it'll stay wherever it is (the graveyard, or exile, for those two examples).

It probably would have been perfectly clear if they just split it into two rulings at that sentence break... but as is, it can kinda be read as "... it can't transform. If it tries to, blah blah blah, it stays in some other zone."

[Kapol]

So, I am not a judge, but I play one at my LGS. I ran into a situation today which I wasn't sure of the solution. For context, this is a regular REL non-FNM event.

I walk over and hear the story that someone played the new Jace, used his +1, and scry'd. But he claims to have not drawn the card. His opponent claims to have seen him leave the card in his hand. This is the opponent's turn after the activation when it's caught. It's supposed to have been after the opponent had drawn and played land for turn. The Jace player claims to know that it was turn five, but the other player seems unsure.

What's the fix here? Should I have counted the cards, tried to check the boardstate, and attempted to figure out if they had the appropriate number of cards? It was, at the time, 5 lands, 2 cards on the field, no graveyard that I'm aware of, and 4 cards in hand. Or is there a general ruling on if something like this comes up, do X action? The Jace player acted like it should be seen as a missed trigger. But considering it was an activated ability that they demonstrated awareness of (both players agree the scry happened and Jace was up to 6), missed trigger didn't seem correct.

[phlip]

It's 100% not a missed trigger, but that's probably the only easy part of that...

And yeah... as another not-a-judge opinion... you do want to try to find out if the card was put back. You can try to do that by counting cards, but that can get quite involved, especially if you don't know what turn it is... often it will involve counting cards for the other player, to confirm what turn it is, then counting cards for the first player, to see if there's a discrepancy. Luckily, turn 5 is still early enough that the players can probably still remember who went first, if anyone mulliganned, if that card-draw spell in a graveyard was cast or just discarded, etc. The longer the game goes, the more fraught this plan gets, as there's more opportunities for miscounting, and players will start to forget important details.

Alternatively, if he scried and then left the card on top, you can just ask him what the card was (away from the table, so the opponent doesn't hear)... then if that card is actually on top, then chances are they're correct. But if they scried it to the bottom, obviously that won't help.

It's entirely possible that you would never be able to figure out for certain whether the draw was missed, and will just have to make the best guess either way that you can, given the evidence available.

As for the fix, if the draw was in fact missed... well, it's regular, so you have a lot of flexibility here to figure out what something that satisfies everyone and lets the game keep going. I'd probably just say, let them draw their card, and gently remind both players to pay attention.

[SixFootTurkey]

The problem here, is that you don't actually know what happened; you have two differing stories. Ask the players to go through the steps of that turn or the turn before; that might help the remember more. If you can't determine a very likely scenario from their stories, the only real way to tell for sure is to count the cards (making sure to account for any additional draws/discards, as well as whether or not the player took a mulligan).

If you come to the conclusion that they hadn't drawn the card, then you have them draw the card now and move on.

If you need to count cards, and the players agree on which turn it is, you can instruct them to do the counting and tell them to have the player draw if they're short a card. (Leaving you free to get back to your other player/judge duties, and putting the burden of effort on the players in question.)

In the case that the board state is complex (a lot of discards, etc) or the players aren't sure of the turn, I would leave the game state as is. While a player missing out on a draw is lame, I would lean towards having a player be a bit miffed at a mistake they made, than a player feel they were given an unfair advantage based on an opponent's lack of attention.

If the sudden memory of not drawing a card was during a trickier point (combat post blocks, with spells on the stack), it would definitely be worth an extra few questions to investigate.

[Kapol]

Thanks for the second opinions. The situation would have been so much easier if this was just a missed trigger scenario. But it isn't one on any level. It was tough, since the non-Jace player didn't seem sure the turn. The Jace player had apparently scry'd to the top already taken another look at the top card of their library. That was while the TO was trying to handle everything though, so I don't know that for sure. But it meant I couldn't even have them say which card it was to prove they knew.

As it was, with the players unable to agree on basically anything, I decided to say the draw was missed and had the game move on. Things had been going on for a solid five minutes at that point and nobody seemed able to reach an agreement. The opponent didn't even seem sure of which of them went first. The hardest part, for me, was that I don't trust the Jace player's opponent at all. They seem like the sort who would lie about not knowing information in order to give themself an advantage. But that's my personal opinion, and I needed to keep it out of my ruling.

[Booster]

I think the answer is no, but I feel like its worth asking.

I have a Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh in play, and I ping someone, so she is now tapped. I cast a lightning axe, discarding fiery temper and untapping Chandra. Is there anyway to do this in a way where I ping again before I pay the madness cost on fiery temper, untapping Chandra again?

[Atifexe]

Actually, I think you can. Unless I'm mistaken, you have two triggers from one action - the Madness trigger on Fiery Temper, and the untap trigger from Chandra. If you stack the Madness trigger first, then Chandra's untap, the untap will resolve and both players will get priority (thus allowing you to ping) before you're presented with the option to cast Fiery Temper for it's Madness cost.

[korvys]

This is correct.

When you cast Lightning Axe, while paying the costs for it, you will discard Fiery Temper into exile and trigger madness, but the madness trigger won't go on the stack yet.
Then the Axe is put on the stack. This will trigger Chandra.
Now, before anyone gets priority, State-Based-Actions are checked (These would kill Maro if you have no cards in hand now, for example), and once those have been resolved, all triggers that haven't been put on the stack are put on the stack, first from the active player, and then from the inactive player.
They're both your triggers, you can put them how you want.
If Chandra resolves first, you can respond to the still stacked madness trigger by tapping her again.
Then when the madness trigger resolves, you may pay it's costs, and put it on the stack, triggering Chandra again.

Interestingly, you don't actually have to stack the triggers that way. If you resolve the madness trigger first, then another copy of Chandra's trigger will trigger. Once that second one resolves, you can tap her again before the first one resolves, and she'll untap when it does.
Her trigger will trigger even if she's not tapped at the time.

[cuddlyblade]

Quick question if you mindslaver somebody can you look at their sideboard during their turn while you are controlling them?

[korvys]

7/1/2012: You can see everything that player can see but you normally could not. This includes that player's hand, face-down creatures, his or her sideboard, and any cards in his or her library that he or she looks at.

Note that they can concede at any point if they want to prevent you looking at it.

[Booster]

If I have 8 cards in my hand and have to discard at the end of turn, and the card I discard has madness, can I cast it during my clean-up phase? I cant think of a reason I wouldn't but casting something during clean up feels weird.

[phlip]

Yes, you can. If there are any state-based actions or triggers that come up during the cleanup step, then you handle those as normal, players get priority, and then there's another cleanup step afterward, to make sure everything is really cleaned up.

[eternal_planeswalker]

saw a post on reddit r/magictcg that stated that you couldn't use brain in a jar to play a sorcery. this doesn't seem right.

[Kapol]

The card says right on it that you can play instants or sorceries. If it didn't say Sorcery, then you wouldn't be able to. Since it does, you can.

[phlip]

Yeah... even if you have some complicated rules argument about why it shouldn't let you play sorceries... you usually do well by assuming that the rules work in such a way that you are able to do what it says on the card. They're not going to print a card that says "you can play a sorcery now!" if the rules don't actually allow that card to work.

[Kapol]

So I have a judge certification question. I passed my RA test on the Wizards Judge site. Does that actually do anything? From a play standpoint, I'm sure it doesn't. But from a backend standpoint, is my DCI profile now registered as a Rule Advisor? Or was the test basically just another practice quiz on there?

Also, while I'm sure there are better places to find the information, how would I get started becoming a level 1 judge?