Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

[VectorZero]

Is there an opportunity to counter a counterbalance trigger (say with stifle or trickbind) after the top card has been revealed?

[AdmiralMemo]

Not a judge, but I don't think so. Here's how I think it goes. Opponent casts spell. Counterbalance trigger goes on stack on top of it. Then, upon resolution, you choose whether to reveal the card or not. If you reveal the card, the effect resolves and the trigger goes away, not giving you time to counter the trigger.

[Atifexe]

Correct. The card isn't revealed until the trigger begins to resolve, and therefore it cannot be countered after the card is revealed.

[JackSlack]

Can anyone give me a few examples of cards described by rule 614.12b?

[steric hindrance]

614.12b. Some replacement effects cause a permanent to enter the battlefield with its controller's choice of one of two abilities, each marked with an anchor word and preceded by a bullet point. "[Anchor word] -- [ability]" means "As long as [anchor word] was chosen as this permanent entered the battlefield, this permanent has [ability]." The abilities preceded by anchor words are each linked to the ability that causes a player to choose between them. See rule 607, "Linked Abilities."

"As X Siege enters the battlefield, choose Khans or Dragons..."

[JackSlack]

Right. That's what I thought it meant, but I wanted to be sure.

[phlip]

Yeah, that rule was added with FRF, and IIRC the five Sieges are so far the only cards that use it.

[chetoos]

If I play cathar's crusade while Starfield of nyx is active, does it entering give everything counters?

[fantôme]

Starfield does turn your (non-aura) enchantments into creatures, so yes. Whether or not it still works if Crusade is the fifth enchantment and whether or not Crusade gives itself a +1/+1 counter are questions I do not know the answer to.

And a question: if I sacrifice a creature with Evolutionary Leap whilst I have Shadows of the Past in play, can I choose to scry before Leap's ability starts to resolve? And can I still choose the order of things if the sacrificed creature is a Sultai Emissary?

[korvys]

If the crusade us the 5th (or more) enchantment, it will enter as a creature, and will trigger itself, and give all your creatures/enchantments a counter.

If you activate Evolutionary Leap, it goes on the stack, followed by any abilities that triggered during the activation, like Shadows of the Past and Sultai Emmisary, in whatever order you like, and then resolve before the Leap ability.

[SixFootTurkey]

Regarding Cathars' Crusade, is there a difference between 'when [card] enters the battlefield' and 'when a creature enters the battlefield'?

Depending on the specific rule and how it works, I could definitely see a card with an effect not trigger itself. (Though it could be for clarity, it could also be why cards with constellation specify the card _or another enchantment_.) Do you happen to which specific rule allows a general etb trigger to affect the card it's on? (I'm not doubting, just explaining my confusion and hoping to rectify said confusion.)

[korvys]

There isn't any difference in how those two things trigger (other than triggering on different things).

"Enters the battlefield" type triggered abilities look at the state of the battlefield after the object has entered. So at the point where the card would trigger, the card is now on the battlefield. If the card now meets the requirements to trigger (possibly due to being affected by a continuous effect that changes, say, its type), it will do so.

If you'd like to get into the details, the relevant rules are in the Comprehensive Rules, 603.6, 603.6a, and 603.6b

606.3 - Click to Expand

603.6. Trigger events that involve objects changing zones are called "zone-change triggers." Many abilities with zone-change triggers attempt to do something to that object after it changes zones. During resolution, these abilities look for the object in the zone that it moved to. If the object is unable to be found in the zone it went to, the part of the ability attempting to do something to the object will fail to do anything. The ability could be unable to find the object because the object never entered the specified zone, because it left the zone before the ability resolved, or because it is in a zone that is hidden from a player, such as a library or an opponent's hand. (This rule applies even if the object leaves the zone and returns again before the ability resolves.) The most common zone-change triggers are enters-the-battlefield triggers and leaves-the-battlefield triggers.

603.6a. Enters-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent enters the battlefield. These are written, "When [this object] enters the battlefield, . . . " or "Whenever a [type] enters the battlefield, . . ." Each time an event puts one or more permanents onto the battlefield, all permanents on the battlefield (including the newcomers) are checked for any enters-the-battlefield triggers that match the event.

603.6b. Continuous effects that modify characteristics of a permanent do so the moment the permanent is on the battlefield (and not before then). The permanent is never on the battlefield with its unmodified characteristics. Continuous effects don't apply before the permanent is on the battlefield, however (see rule 603.6e).
Example: If an effect reads "All lands are creatures" and a land card is played, the effect makes the land card into a creature the moment it enters the battlefield, so it would trigger abilities that trigger when a creature enters the battlefield. Conversely, if an effect reads "All creatures lose all abilities" and a creature card with an enters-the-battlefield triggered ability enters the battlefield, that effect will cause it to lose its abilities the moment it enters the battlefield, so the enters-the-battlefield ability won't trigger.

[Asthanius]

Let's say I have a Wild Defiance and a Spellskite, and I cast Lightning Bolt targeting something other than Spellskite. Will the enchantment trigger if I use Spellskite's ability to change the target to itself? And if so, can I continually use Spellskite's ability on the same spell to trigger Wild Defiance multiple times?

[phlip]

Wild Defiance triggers when a creature becomes the target of a spell. That is, it triggers when a creature changes from not being a target to being a target. So when you redirect the bolt to Spellskite, Wild Defiance will trigger, but if the bolt is already targeting Spellskite and you activate it again, it won't trigger again.

If you have two Spellskites, though, you can bounce the bolt back and forth between the two and keep getting Wild Defiance triggers.

[Asthanius]

That's what I thought. Not what I was hoping for, but it's what I expected. Thanks!

[SixFootTurkey]

@korvys

Thanks, I'm getting better at some of the finer bits, but I'm not yet at the point where I can quickly locate a relevant rule in the comp rules.

[korvys]

@korvys

Thanks, I'm getting better at some of the finer bits, but I'm not yet at the point where I can quickly locate a relevant rule in the comp rules.

That's ok, I'm cheating by using Yawgatog anyway: http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/
It's a hyperlinked version, so you can jump around, or look up glossary terms easily. Highly recommend for anyone digging into the finer points of the MTG Comp Rules.

[SixFootTurkey]

Well then, that keeps me from needing to ctrl+f constantly, thanks again! ^^

[Aaron9797]

if i have a sphinx's tutelage and cast fascination and pick each player draws. dose me and my opponent draw all the cards and then mill from sphinx's tutelage or is it a draw, mill; draw, mill

[steric hindrance]

You draw, then mill. You basically need to finish resolving Fascination before you can start to resolve the Sphinx's Tutelage triggers.

[korvys]

You draw all, then mill, but there is a separate mill trigger for each draw, and they're resolved one at a time (if it matters).

[fantôme]

So I'm given to understand that Suspension Field, if made a creature with an active Starfield of Nyx and made larger with Spear/Dictate of Heliod, can target itself with it's ability to exile/return infinitely. But can you give it +1/+1 with it's own ETB from Oakheart Dryads?

[phlip]

Do you mean, can you use the +1/+1 from the Oakheart Dryads instead of the Spear/Dictate/etc to make the Suspension Field a 3/3 so it can exile itself?

IE if you control only Starfield, Oakheart Dryads, and two other irrelevant enchantments to turn Starfield on, and you cast Suspension Field, can you loop it?

In that case: no, you can't. When Suspension Field enters the battlefield, both itself and Oakheart will trigger, and you can choose what order they go on the stack. But whatever order you put them, Suspension field needs to target a creature that already has toughness 3 or greater (since it's a targeting restriction). Regardless of what order you choose to stack the triggers, you need to pick the targets for both before either one resolves. And at that point the Suspension Field is still only a 2/2.

[fantôme]

I figured as much, but wanted to check - in case I was missing a trick there. Thankyou!

[ThePasserby]

Hey, first time questioner here! I just recently gotten into Modern from Standard. Started playing Magic back when it was M14, Return to Ravnica, and Theros, so I am fairly new still. No longer Near Mint though. Lightly Played probably.

Playing a variation of the Mono Green Devotion list Star City games put up. Replaced some things I couldn't get with things I had, 3x Wistful Silkie, 1x Abundant Growth, and the Wolfbrair Elemental with Coursers, Presence of Nylea, and Nylea. Otherwise the same deck.

In any case.

Questions about Genesis Wave and multiple things with ETB triggers and enchantments.

How does it work if I wave into multiple Eternal Witnesses, some permanents, and say some non-permanents that I want?

How does it work if I get things like Utopia Sprawl and Abundant Growth, do I get to play them on lands I get as I put them into the battlefield?

Do I get to sequence how things enter or do they enter in the order I reveal?

Thank you for taking the time to read this post.