Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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SilPho
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 26 Oct 2011, 06:41

Short Answer: Counters cancel out.
Long Answer: Lorwyn introduced a state-based-action that effectively says +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out. (It only applies to those exact counters)

So if an Arcbound Bruiser is blocked by some Ichor Rats then the Bruiser will, for a very breif moment, have 5 counters on it, but before anyone has a chance to actually do anything it will simply have a single +1/+1 counter left on it.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby DuelLadyS » 28 Oct 2011, 12:23

I have Grizzled Outcasts on the field, and my opponent plays Birthing Pod and uses its ability to place a new monster on the field. Does this count as playing a spell and prevent my Outcasts from transforming, or is the newly birthed monster simply the result of an effect, so I get my werewolves?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 28 Oct 2011, 12:47

If you mean that your opponent casts the Birthing Pod from their hand then No, because that would be a spell. If the pod was already on the battlefield and they simply activated the ability then your Grizzled Outcasts will transform because abilities are not spells, regardless of whether they act like it.

Bonus: Activating the ability of an Isochron Scepter is, itself not a spell; but the ability does allow you to cast a spell then and there. This obviously does count as casting a spell if the player actually does so.
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dackwards d
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby dackwards d » 28 Oct 2011, 21:30

If a creature takes combat damage after being subjected to Test of Faith do the +1/+1 counters affect the damage it does back or do they come into effect after the combat?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 28 Oct 2011, 23:43

I think if the incoming damage is first-strike (and the creature itself doesn't have First Strike too), then yes... otherwise no, the damage from both creatures is done at the same time, and then the effect of Test of Faith happens after that.
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SilPho
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 29 Oct 2011, 00:52

Short Answer: Counters come in afterwards
Long Answer: Damage is dealt simultaneously (unless, as phlip said, First Strike is involved), but damage is assigned to creatures immediately before it is actually dealt. (This is similar to how things used to work with combat damage on the stack but now there's no chance to do anything in between).

Bonus Question: Let's imagine we have a 5/5 trample creature attacking into a 3/3 blocking creature. If Test of Faith has resolved targeting the blocking creature then does this change the options the attacking player has when assigning damage?

(Highlight below to see the answer)
In a word, no. Even though 3 damage will be prevented to the blocking 3/3 you only need to assign 'lethal damage', whether it is dealt is another story. The attacker could choose to assign all 5 to the blocker, but that would only end up with two damage on the creature.
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dackwards d
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby dackwards d » 29 Oct 2011, 01:02

Huh. So in that case the incoming damage being from a double- or first striker would actually be beneficial to the white player? Cool.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 29 Oct 2011, 01:36

Yup, pretty much.

Additionally, Test of Faith applies to 3 damage regardless of the source, or sources. A 2/2 double striker blocking our protected creature would deal 2 damage in the first combat step, preventing two damage and granting two counters, and then deal 2 damage in the second combat step, this time one damage is still prevented and one counter is still added. (If the creature with Test of Faith was a 1/1 to start with it will be a 4/4 with 1 damage on it by the end of this but would only have dealt 3 damage itself)
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dackwards d
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby dackwards d » 29 Oct 2011, 02:34

Ok, three questions this time:

I read something where summoning sickness applies whenever a creature comes under your control, not only when it is summoned. Does this mean that you cannot use a creature in the turn it is captured using Mind Control or Corrupted Conscience?

Secondly, heres a situation that happened yesterday:
My opponent has 11 health, I have a Pulse Tracker and a Guul Draz Vampire on the battlefield. Both vampires attack. We assumed that the damage from the Pulse Tracker occurs before any combat resolution, so the player's health dropped to 10 and the Guul Draz buffed up to a 3/2. Did we do this right? As an extra question does the damage happen before declaring blockers or not, since the Guul Draz would also gain Intimidate? Thankfully it wasn't an issue at the time (my opponent had blocked with a black creature).

Finally, are you sick of me yet? I swear I probably posted most of the questions in this thread.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 29 Oct 2011, 03:06

Summoning Sickness
The rule informally known as "summoning sickness" essentially says that you cannot attack or use the tap abilities of any creature you have not controlled continuously since the beginning of your most recent turn.
This is why cards like Threaten have to say that the creature gains haste.

Bonus: It doesn't matter how many times a permanent has changed type, it can be a creature, then an artifact, then a creature, then whatever, "summoning sickness" only applies whilst the permanent is a creature that you have not controlled since your last turn started. Turning a creature that you have controlled for a few turns into an artifact, for exmple, and then back into a creature does NOT give them summoning sickness again.

The other situation
Declare attackers - 2 creatures attack. Pulse Tracker's triggered ability goes onto the stack. This will resolve and drop the opponents life down to 10. At this point the continuous ability on Guul Draz Vampire comes into effect.
Declare blockers - Since the opponent's health sits at 10, the Guul Draz Vampire does have intimidate and his power\toughness boost.
If the opponent had started at 12 life and declared no blockers the Guul Draz would only receive those bonuses after damage had finished happening. Only 2 damage (1 from each vampire) would be dealt rather than 4.

Am I sick of this yet?
Of course not. The rules behind Magic and the intricacies of the game are why I became a judge. I'm very happy to help people who are unsure about things, no matter how small.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby DuelLadyS » 30 Oct 2011, 09:49

I have a Pride Guardian equipped with Griffin Guide on the field. My opponent attacks with a Falkenrath Noble, which I block. He then claims the noble is killed by my Pride Guardian, so its effect triggers. I say that, despite gaining 2 power from the Griffin Guide, the Defender ability prevents him from dealing that damage, even during blocking. Who's right?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 30 Oct 2011, 10:13

Short Answer: He is. Defender doesn't stop a creature dealing damage.
Long Answer: That's pretty much it. Defender simply means that a creature cannot be declared as an attacker during the declare attackers step, it does not mean that a creature cannot deal damage, combat or otherwise.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby DuelLadyS » 30 Oct 2011, 12:31

SilPho wrote:Short Answer: He is. Defender doesn't stop a creature dealing damage.
Long Answer: That's pretty much it. Defender simply means that a creature cannot be declared as an attacker during the declare attackers step, it does not mean that a creature cannot deal damage, combat or otherwise.


Dang... I'm so getting that rubbed in my face later... :lol:
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Geoff_B » 30 Oct 2011, 12:40

Going back to the summoning sickness thing, if Gideon Jura (yes him again!) uses his ability that turns him into a 6/6 soldier until the end of the turn, does he get summoning sickness or is he covered by a similar situation you described with artifacts turning into creatures? The ability doesn't seem to make sense if he is hit by summoning sickness (and I saw that interpretation on a different message board, hence the question).

Also I may be thick but you did say that creatures hit by Mind Control get summoning sickness once they come under the other player's control didn't you?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 30 Oct 2011, 13:35

Every permanent technically has summoning sickness when they enter the battlefield but it only affects creatures.

When it comes to Mr. Jura summoning sickness will only have an effect on him if you turn him into a creature on the first turn you control him. On subsequent turns he will no longer have summoning sickness and if he becomes a creature then he can do as he pleases.

Let's just tie this up with an example:
Turn 1: You play Gideon Jura. He can't attack so you use another ability.
Turn 2: My turn. Nothing interesting happens.
Turn 3: Gideon's sickness wears off. You activate and attack with Gideon.
Turn 4: I cast Volition Reins to gain control of Gideon (and untap him). If I turn him in to a creature I won't be able to attack with him.
Also on turn 4: You somehow destroy my Reins and get your Gideon back.
Turn 5: Your turn again - You've controlled Gideon since the start of the turn so you can attack with him if you wish.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Geoff_B » 30 Oct 2011, 13:53

Mr Jura's main ability seems to be to give people headaches when trying to apply rules...
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 30 Oct 2011, 14:18

Oh I don't know, Elspeth's emblems have been known to cause some rules issues (especially before it was an emblem ability). Then there's Sorin who likes to screw around with who can see what. Oh and don't forget about Karn and his game-resetting ultimate that isn't quite a true restart.

As far as rules go, Gideon isn't the worst we've had to contend with :D
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Geoff_B » 30 Oct 2011, 14:40

Wow. I take back everything I said about Gideon providing headaches.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby DataEntity » 30 Oct 2011, 14:54

I feel stupid for asking this question, but do transformed cards (Werewolves, that one vampire, etc.) once they are on their transformed side (human side to werewolf side) have a converted mana cost of zero or do they keep their converted mana cost from their unflipped side?

If it is zero, I can see even more reason why no one plays werewolves.... "Oh, ratchet bomb? I blow it up for zero. Bye bye all of your transformed guys."
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 31 Oct 2011, 00:00

The back of a double-faced-card has no mana cost. This does mean that the converted mana cost of transformed werewolves is 0.

Bonus: This is why colour indicators were introduced for Innistrad (the little circles to the left of "Creature - Werewolf", for example), normally a card will determine its colour based on its mana cost, when it doesn't have a mana cost it will normally be colourless (like lands) unless it has a colour indicator.

Previously, cards had to state their colours in rules text. Now they all have colour indicators in Gatherer. See Transguild Courier, Evermind, and Dryad Arbor as examples of this.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby dackwards d » 31 Oct 2011, 03:04

Nicol Bolas's +power destroys target noncreature permanent. Does that mean he can one-shot other planeswalkers?

Another planeswalker question: can a planeswalker be tapped (for example, by a Frost Titan entering the battlefield), and if so does this have any real effect on it?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 31 Oct 2011, 05:01

Can Nicol Bolas one-shot another planeswalker?
Yup, he's just that bad-ass.

Can a planeswalker be tapped?
Yes they can, but most of the time it won't make any difference. It could make a difference if you decide to tap Gideon Jura (yes, him again), if he turns into a creature he would need to untap before attacking.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby dackwards d » 31 Oct 2011, 05:04

Haha cool. Although a 8 mana of three colours you would want him to be at least a little competent.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Myrph » 31 Oct 2011, 05:20

Are there any standard legal ways of preventing the angel tokens produced by Geist of Saint Traft from being exiled at the end of combat, other than Sundial of the Infinite?

I've discovered Stifle and Trickbind as possible solutions, but neither are legal in Standard.
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SilPho
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 31 Oct 2011, 09:33

You'd probably be better off asking that in the general Magic thread, that's more of a play-strategy question than a rules question. I'll be able to tell you if something works (any why) but something so open-ended I won't be able to answer reliably.

My gut instinct is to say that Standard probably doesn't have a simple way to do this (other than the sundial), but that's not a definite no.

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