Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

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Kapol
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Kapol » 25 Apr 2015, 03:57

I'm not a judge, but I believe the answer is technically yes. It will not, however, be castable the next turn. While it does have rebound, it vanishes from the game entirely as soon as it's off the stack. Meaning that it would exile itself and then be gone forever even if rebound did work.

I'm not sure it would even work if it didn't just vanish, as the copy isn't be cast from hand. Unless it copies that trait from the original spell.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby phlip » 25 Apr 2015, 07:01

No, the copy wasn't cast from your hand (it wasn't cast at all), so rebound has no effect.

Even if it did, it wouldn't work... when you exiled it, it would disappear (spell copies can only exist on the stack, just like tokens can only exist on the battlefield... if they leave, they cease to exist).
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby LokiTheLiar » 25 Apr 2015, 08:00

The copy will have rebound, but the delayed triggered ability won't work. Rebound works when you cast the spell from your hand, the reminder text is very precise about that. Copies of spells are not cast from hand, they are just put on the stack.

If this spell was cast from your hand, instead of putting it into your graveyard as it resolves, exile it and, at the beginning of your next upkeep, you may cast this card from exile without paying its mana cost.


It's also one of these cases in which you can see how well the rules are designed. Copies of spells have no physical representetion in game, so there would have to be away to keep track of them, so that you don't forget about casting them from rebound and that would unnecesarilly complicate the game. They avoided that by making rebound work only if casted from hand. Just imagine the absurd situations when someone would imprint a spell with rebound on the Isochron Scepter
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 25 Apr 2015, 10:50

So, the same with Suspend, then, right? If you copy a spell with Suspend, it has a non-functional "Suspend" as an ability of the card.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby LokiTheLiar » 25 Apr 2015, 13:59

Yup.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 25 Apr 2015, 14:08

From the Staggershock rulings:
15/06/2010 Rebound will have no effect on copies of spells because you don't cast them from your hand.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 30 Apr 2015, 16:08

If you use Break Open or Ixidor, Reality Sculptor on an opponent's Manifest and it's a non-permanent, I'm assuming the effect of the card doesn't happen and SBAs just put it in the graveyard. (Same if you Skirk Alarmist your own non-permanent manifest, for some unknown reason.)
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby MowDownJoe » 30 Apr 2015, 17:42

Actually: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/ar ... 2015-01-14

There are no cards in the Fate Reforged set that would turn a face-down instant or sorcery card on the battlefield face up, but some older cards can try to do this. If something tries to turn a face-down instant or sorcery card on the battlefield face up, reveal that card to show all players it's an instant or sorcery card. The permanent remains on the battlefield face down. Abilities that trigger when a permanent turns face up won't trigger, because even though you revealed the card, it never turned face up.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 30 Apr 2015, 18:23

Ah. Interesting. Do you still sac it to Skirk Alarmist's ability?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby korvys » 30 Apr 2015, 21:58

Yes. The "it" in "sacrifice it" refers to whatever it was that was targeted when the ability resolved, regardless of whether you were able to do what you thought you were going to do.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 07 May 2015, 13:01

So with MM2015 coming out, Changelings count as "Spirit" spells for those Kamigawa things that care about Spirit or Arcane spells, right?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby steric hindrance » 07 May 2015, 13:57

Indeed. Their line of text saying they are all creature types means that they are Spirits as well as Ninjas, Mutants, and Turtles.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 07 May 2015, 15:20

I was just making sure they were Spirit SPELLS and not just Spirit CREATURES when they hit the battlefield.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby steric hindrance » 07 May 2015, 16:11

Yep, they are all creature types in all zones.
Magic Comp Rules wrote:702.72a Changeling is a characteristic-defining ability. “Changeling” means “This object is every creature type.” This ability works everywhere, even outside the game.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby chetoos » 07 May 2015, 20:32

So technically you could grab your copies of avian changeling when you activated Spawnsire of Ulamog's ability, right?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby SilPho » 07 May 2015, 22:41

In almost all cases, changeling is just shorthand for having every single creature type printed on the card. So, if it would work with a card that has the creature type physically printed on it, it works with a changeling.

The main difference is something like Snakeform, which causes creatures to lose their abilities, and will affect changelings (it's even in the FAQ for Snakeform).
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Aaron9797 » 10 May 2015, 13:34

ajani's chosen says you can put an aura on the token it makes; is that also true for skywise teachings?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Atifexe » 10 May 2015, 14:51

No. That's only possible with Ajani's Chosen because it's an explicit part of the ability.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby Aaron9797 » 24 May 2015, 14:41

if a player cast reforge the soul and i have ulamog, the infinite gyre in my hand do i first day a new hand or shuffle my graveyard into my deck after discarding my hand
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby steric hindrance » 24 May 2015, 14:50

You draw a new hand first. When you resolve Reforge the Soul, you discard your hand. Ulamog's shuffle-into-library effect will trigger, but will not happen until Reforge the Soul finishes resolving. You will draw seven cards, then Ulamog's trigger will resolve and your graveyard will be shuffled into your library.

Note the wording for Ulamog and the other Eldrazi: it's a trigger ("When CARDNAME is put into a graveyard..." is a triggered ability), different from Progenitus or Blightsteel Colossus, which have replacement abilities ("If CARDNAME would be put into a graveyard, shuffle it into its owner's library instead.") and would not use the stack.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby fantôme » 30 May 2015, 11:49

Apologies if this has been asked before - do abilities and effects stack together? eg. If I Oblivion Ring my Auramancer, the sacrifice my Oblivion Ring (to whatever), is the Oblivion Ring actually yet in the graveyard for Auramancer's ETB ability to get it back?
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby AdmiralMemo » 30 May 2015, 12:37

Not a judge, but I think yes. Here's how I think it goes.

Sac O-Ring. Auramancer is still in exile.
O-Ring goes to graveyard and its LTB effect triggers and is put on the stack.
O-Ring's LTB effect resolves and puts Auramancer back onto the battlefield. O-Ring is already in the graveyard by this point.
Auramancer's ETB effect triggers, allowing you to grab an enchantment from the graveyard, of which O-Ring is one.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby LokiTheLiar » 30 May 2015, 12:42

As a judge I can confirm that what Memo said is correct.
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby fantôme » 30 May 2015, 12:45

Thankyouverymuch!
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Re: Magic the Gathering: Ask a Judge

Postby VectorZero » 07 Jun 2015, 17:58

I have an update to my earlier situation of Phantasmal Image copying a Mutavault. In our legacy tournament yesterday my opponent had humility on the board. How does this affect the image? (This resulted in multiple successive judge calls :) )

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