Commander/EDH Deck Talk

[WickedBoy6]

Oh, it was a single Browbeat. I had Dictate of the Twin Gods and Furnace of Rath out.

...why would they EVER late it hit them for 20, then? Did they forget or something? Granted, you could potentially do that much with what you draw, but still!

[ElFuzzy]

Was Cameron's Niv Mizzet deck ever posted anywhere?

[WickedBoy6]

So, after Game Day, I'm a few steps closer to getting either my Sliver Commander or my God Commander deck going. Maybe Sliver first, while I build up the God one, since I have all of the Slivers already. Here's what I have for the God Commander deck so far:

Ephara, God of the Polia
Keranos, God of Storms
Kruphix, God of Horizons
Mogis, God of Slaughter
Nylea, God of the Hunt

Bow of Nylea
Hammer of Purphoros
Whip of Erebos

Dictate of Karametra
Dictate of Kryphix
Dictate of the Twin Gods

Blood Crypt
Godless Shrine
Hallowed Fountain
Overgrown Tomb
Sacred Foundry
Stomping Ground
Temple Garden

Drowned Catacomb
Rootbound Crag
Sunpetal Grove

Temple of Epiphany
Temple of Malady
Temple of Malice

I hope everyone can see what I'm trying to go with here. I'm also thinking about adding more flavor in it, like Prophet of Kruphix, Heliod's Emissary, etc., plus, it adds to devotion. Also, while the scrylands are nice, they may be a bit too slow. The Shocklands don't HAVE to come in tapped, and with them being "dual lands", the Core Set taplands may not come in tapped. Probably fill in the rest of the lands with stuff like Command Tower and Mana Confluence.

[Phosphatide]

I decided to finally take the time to figure out how I want to make the Marchesa deck, and chose to pack in as many creatures as I can that either already came with +1/+1 counters or provided me with many many benefits for having creatures with those counters. I took that massive list I posted in the general discussion thread and cut it down to size by taking out any clunky cards or just really boring creatures, leaving me with 54 for the deck. After throwing in a couple of non-creature spells that liked to mess around with sacrificing my army or took advantage of creatures dying, I think I made a deck?

Click to Expand

- "Clockwork" - 3
Clockwork Dragon
Clockwork Hydra
Clockwork Vorrac

- Devour - 5
Caldera Hellion
Predator Dragon
Preyseizer Dragon
Tar Fiend
Thunder-Thrash Elder

- Evolve - 3
Cloudfin Raptor
Simic Fluxmage
Simic Manipulator

- Graft - 4
Cytoplast Manipulator
Helium Squirter
Novijen Sages
Vigean Graftmage

- Tribute - 5
Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
Oracle of Bones
Pharagax Giant
Shrike Harpy
Siren of the Fanged Coast

- Undying - 10
Butcher Ghoul
Demonlord of Ashmouth
Hound of Griselbrand
Flayer of the Hatebound
Geralf's Messenger
Geralf's Mindcrusher
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Pyreheart Wolf
Stormbound Geist
Treacherous Pit-Dweller (?)

- Unleash - 9
Bloodfray Giant
Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
Gore-House Chainwalker
Grim Roustabout
Hellhole Flailer
Rakdos Cackler
Rakdos Drake
Splatter Thug
Thrill-Kill Assassin

- Other - 15
Cryptborn Horror (?)
Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Hamletback Goliath
Magmasaur (?)
Oona's Blackguard
Phyrexian Prowler
Rage Forger
Sage of Fables
Shimatsu the Bloodcloaked
Spike Cannibal
Stingmoggie
Storm Entity (?)
Triskelion
Vebulid
War Elemental
Workhorse

- Non-creature Spells - 8
Grave Betrayal
Sadistic Glee
Death Pit Offering (?)
Dictate of Erebos (?)
Eldrazi Monument
Fling
Grave Pact
Rite of Consumption

The total number of non-land cards range between 56 and 62, depending on how many of the cards I labeled with a question mark I want to use. The wincon of the deck is the usual "bash people in the face" tactic but there are plenty of cards that let me deal direct damage or cause life loss just by messing around with sacrificing my creatures (I really really really really want to Fling a Hamletback Goliath or Vebulid), and perhaps if I get the cards right I would end up being the only player with creatures at all.

This is an extremely rough draft of what a possible deck might look like, as I wasn't even sure what kind of plan I wanted to have to start with. Any suggestions on what this deck could use?

[WickedBoy6]

Honestly, it looks pretty good. You have creatures - a lot of creatures - that use Marchesa's mechanic, plus you picked Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, which is probably the only other linchpin needed to make it work. Everything else seems fine, even the mana count. Just playtest it, see how it feels, and adjust accordingly.

See, with my experience, the only way you know if a deck works is if you just play it and play it. Nothing's better than hands-on mental adjustment on the fly.

[edh_mage_ftw]

Anyone have any good advice for this commander deck the side board is the cards im considering to add

Counts : 70 main / 91 sideboard

Creatures:20
1 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Fleecemane Lion
1 Boon Satyr
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Eidolon of Countless Battles
1 Fabled Hero
1 Herald of Torment
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
1 Wayfaring Temple
1 Witchstalker
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Dawnbringer Charioteers
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Reaper of the Wilds
1 Armada Wurm
1 Hydra Broodmaster
1 Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts

Spells:18
1 Sol Ring
1 Springleaf Drum
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Path of Bravery
1 Ready // Willing
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Gild
1 Growing Ranks
1 Silence the Believers
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Dictate of Heliod
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Collective Blessing
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Devout Invocation

Lands:32
10 Forest
1 Mana Confluence
10 Plains
8 Swamp
1 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Silence

Sideboard:91
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Godless Shrine
1 Kor Haven
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Alliance of Arms
1 Collective Voyage
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Lay of the Land
1 Rhys the Redeemed
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Blind Obedience
1 Cathedral Membrane
1 Demonic Tutor
1 False Cure
1 Shimmering Barrier
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Omens
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Doran, the Siege Tower
1 Fiendslayer Paladin
1 Grim Return
1 Grim Tutor
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Journey of Discovery
1 Loxodon Smiter
1 Master of the Feast
1 Mimic Vat
1 Mobilization
1 Nighthowler
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 Birthing Pod
1 Creakwood Liege
1 Debt to the Deathless
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 False Prophet
1 Into the Wilds
1 King Macar, the Gold-Cursed
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
1 Liliana's Reaver
1 Prototype Portal
1 Seraph of the Sword
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Sunweb
1 Tempt with Discovery
1 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
1 Wall of Reverence
1 Wall of Swords
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Cathars' Crusade
1 Celestial Archon
1 Coat of Arms
1 Conqueror's Pledge
1 Doubling Season
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Gurzigost
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Primal Vigor
1 Silklash Spider
1 Sprouting Phytohydra
2 Beseech the Queen
1 Deathless Angel
1 Deathpact Angel
1 Grave Titan
1 Jedit Ojanen of Efrava
1 Nomads' Assembly
1 Omen Machine
1 Primeval Bounty
1 Requiem Angel
1 Sorin Markov
1 Tolsimir Wolfblood
1 Emmara Tandris
1 Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet

[Firbozz]

I've figured out my next commander deck plan:
A Phage deck that tutors up sundial of the infinite so I can actually cast my commander.
Shenanigans will ensue?

[ZePancakes]

Make sure to put in Platinum Angel as well.

[AdmiralMemo]

Going along those 2 lines, I'd like to see Alt-win-con.dek...

If you're just doing Phage as Commander, it'll be only black and artifacts, but these would be neat additions in that route:

Darksteel Reactor
Immortal Coil
Lich
Lich's Mirror
Lich's Tomb
Mortal Combat
Nefarious Lich

[tamaness]

So one of the guys at my FLGS gave me an Atogatog for my birthday. I feel a new commander build coming on.

But first! I need to finish my The Mimeoplasm infect deck.

[ArchieO]

AtogAtog can be a cool deck, one of the cooler ideas I saw in it was tribal atogs as you might expect but it also ran Barren Glory as a possible win con.

If infect Mimeoplasm is a deck you want to build thats your choice, however I have to say that many players (including myself) very much dislike playing against infect.

Also Torpor Orb is a must include in any Phage Deck

[WickedBoy6]

Danny West played an Atogatog Commander deck on SCG's Commander series. Looked really good, especially when he got it to fire off.

[Firbozz]

I'm liking the "alt win-con" deck idea, and thanks for the reminder about torpor orb. I'll prolly start on a decklist in the not-too-distant future.

[WickedBoy6]

My Bosh Commander deck has a couple of alt-wins. I have Grafted Exoskeleton, which I'll throw on Bosh and throw enough artifacts to score poison damage. Remember, infect doesn't have to be combat damage. ANY works. Plus, I have Hellkite Tyrant as another alt-win, works REALLY well with Myr Incubator.

[tamaness]

If infect Mimeoplasm is a deck you want to build thats your choice, however I have to say that many players (including myself) very much dislike playing against infect.

I know it feels like a pretty dirty mechanic. I've been knocked out by it a couple of times, too. It is part of the game, though, and Infect decks tend to pants up one dude, take out one non-threat player, then get hated out of the rest of the game. In four-player pods, they speed up games quite a lot.

Atogatog can be a cool deck, one of the cooler ideas I saw in it was tribal Atogs as you might expect but it also ran Barren Glory as a possible win con.

That's a great idea! I've been trying to make Barren Glory work in something for a while.

[WickedBoy6]

Plus, infect is kind of an older mechanic. The last time it was relevant in Standard was, what, three years ago? Not too many people really play with it. Yeah, it's very filthy in the right way - I use it in my Bosh commander - but it's an alt-win, not the focus. I say it's fine, as long as it's not something someone can easily cheap up on and take out everybody at once in a multiplayer game. With the right deck, I can see it happening, but then again, it may as well end up as a game of Archenemy at that point.

[tamaness]

One of the guys at my FLGS built a Skittles voltron infect deck. If it's not disrupted, it can easily get turn 6 wins. I'm not aiming for something nearly so gross.

[jkefka]

My erstwhile better half put together an infect deck she calls "Mimeoplasm wearing Skytherix as a hat", which doesn't run away with games for three reasons.

1) It's a humongous aggro magnet in multiplayer. Any one of the big infect threats that comes down is an instant removal target.

2) It doesn't run Blightsteel, because Blightsteel is no fun.

3) It's more about the -1/-1 counters and proliferate than poison damage.

She built it to be the inverse of my Vorosh +1/+1 counter deck, so it puts negative counters on everything and then proliferates to kill everything. It does ultimately try to win on poison damage, but usually no faster than any other beater or damage deck can win on regular damage. It helps if you use the commander-adjusted 15 poison lose condition, but thats a playgroup-by-playgroup thing.

TL;DR you can do infect without making it unfun.

[tamaness]

My FLGS is sticking to 10 poison counters. We've decided that unless Infect/poison becomes such a powerhouse that nothing can stop it, we don't need a house rule.

[WickedBoy6]

So, my FLGS is doing a Commander tourney tomorrow. $5 entry, and the prize is FTV: 20. I'm considering entering, even though my Bosh Commander is only at 96% completion. Here's what I have in it so far:

COMMANDER
Bosh, Iron Golem

Lands
1x Buried Ruin
1x Cathedral of War
1x Cloudpost
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Desert
1x Dread Statuary
1x Encroaching Wastes
1x Gargoyle Castle
1x Ghitu Encampment
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Ghost Town
1x Glimmerpost
1x Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai
1x Great Furnace
1x Haunted Fengraf
1x Hellion Crucible
1x Keldon Megaliths
1x Kher Keep
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Mystifying Maze
1x Petrified Field
1x Quicksand
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Scorched Ruins
1x Sheltered Valley
1x Shivan Gorge
1x Smoldering Spires
1x Spinerock Knoll
1x Stalking Stones
1x Teetering Peaks
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Urza's Factory
1x Urza's Mine
1x Urza's Power Plant
1x Urza's Tower
1x Zoetic Cavern

Creatures
1x Alloy Myr
1x Altar Golem
1x Arcbound Crusher
1x Arcbound Overseer
1x Arcbound Ravager
1x Arcbound Reclaimer
1x Beast of Burden
1x Cathodion
1x Colossus of Akros
1x Darksteel Colossus
1x Darksteel Juggernaut
1x Darksteel Sentinel
1x Duplicant
1x Golem Artisan
1x Hellkite Tyrant
1x Iron Myr
1x Juggernaut
1x Junk Diver
1x Karn, Silver Golem
1x Lodestone Golem
1x Manakin
1x Moltensteel Dragon
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Myr Propagator
1x Myr Retriever
1x Palladium Myr
1x Phyrexian Dreadnought
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Thopter Assembly
1x Wurmcoil Engine

Artifacts
1x Batterskull
1x Blinkmoth Urn
1x Candles of Leng
1x Contagion Clasp
1x Contagion Engine
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Darksteel Plate
1x Dreamstone Hedron
1x Energy Chamber
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Fire Diamond
1x Grafted Exoskeleton
1x Howling Mine
1x Icy Manipulator
1x Mirrorworks
1x Myr Incubator
1x Myr Turbine
1x Quietus Spike
1x Ring of Three Wishes
1x Semblance Anvil
1x Sisay's Ring
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Spine of Ish Sah
1x Staff of Nin
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Thousand-Year Elixir
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Tower of Calamities
1x Unwinding Clock
1x Ur-Golem's Eye
1x Voltaic Key

Maybes
1x Clock of Omens
1x Font of Mythos
1x Illusionist's Bracers
1x Mimic Vat
1x Mind Stone
1x Myr Welder
1x Plague Myr
1x Pristine Talisman
1x Throne of Geth
1x Titan Forge
1x Umezawa's Jitte

The reason Jitte is in the maybe is because it's the Alt Art Foil I bought earlier. I have a legit one coming in the mail - damaged, so I can prove I have a legit, but keep using the alt art. I also have a Mindslaver, Nevinyrral's Disk, and Eldrazi Conscription coming in for it, as well. Those won't be ready for the tourney tomorow, though.

What do you guys think?

[ArchieO]

The deck looks solid, although I warn you that competitive commander brings out the spikes in people, expect some pretty powered up decks.

As for infect, it may be because I play online and therefore a) We are stuck with the 10 counter infect rule & b) people don't have a playgroup to piss off online so they are free to be as degenerate as they want without consequences. I've been in too many fun games that ended with someone just casting Triumph of the hordes and going oops I win.

If infect damage was 20 in commander I could see it, it would be another way to hold back life gain decks like commander damage. You know the old adage "Once bitten, twice shy" well if you modify that to "Once (read: Lots) Infected, twice shy" that kinda sums up where I am.

[tamaness]

That's certainly understandable. The Skittles deck is the only dedicated Infect deck I've seen at the FLGS, and it's annoying, but none of us are so daft as to not have any spot removal, though.

Of course the Oloro players' idea of spot removal is Planar Cleansing, Wrath of God, Merciless Eviction, Divine Verdict, and Damnation because they don't cast creatures anyway.

[WickedBoy6]

The deck looks solid, although I warn you that competitive commander brings out the spikes in people, expect some pretty powered up decks.

After the EDH tourney, I realized that it really wasn't that they seemed overpowered - everything seemed pretty on the level - I couldn't get my ramp stamp on. I'd stall at a crtain level, and couldn't let the hate flow, so...I'm adding mountains.

I KNOW, I know, I remember what I said, but I looked at what was going around. With Extraplanar Lens, Caged Sun, Koth of the Hammer - and also Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon for hate - I think that this deck may perform exceedingly well. I just need to grab a couple of red artifact-dealing cards, and then I should be fine? Updates on a new decklist soon.

[Phosphatide]

In a game of Commander, if I'm running an aggressive deck, would I prefer to have Rout or Fated Retribution as my deck's wrath spell? In other words, is the scry 2 worth having in exchange for having the spell cost 7CMC no matter what? And triple white instead of double, too.

I snatched up a copy of Fated Retribution for my deck because I figured the scry would be useful, but I have yet to draw it in a game. Nonetheless, I've still been trying to figure out if Rout is still a better choice in the end.

[WickedBoy6]

Well, check them out. FR's benefit? It hits planeswalkers, and you can Scry 2. Rout's benefit? Instant speed - or 2 cheaper if you chose sorcery - it's one less W, so it's easier to cast, plus it nulls regeneration. That may not be as big as you might think, but you never know, there could be a time when it comes in handy.

It just depends on what your deck needs. If you like/need to scry, and have no Planeswalker-killers, go with Fated Retribution. If you want it cheaper, possibly an instant, and Regen-stoppers, go with Rout.

EDIT: It's also good to note that Conspiracy Rout has Elesh Norn in the art. That may be very minor to you, but I love Elesh Norn, so...there's that.